I was at work today, cleaning up a construction site. None of you probably know that there is a bad tent caterpillar infestation in the West Sound of Washington. Anyway, the little things were everywhere on the site. While I was loading wood into the back of a truck, I noticed as I threw a board down that I crushed a caterpillar. This absolutely destroyed me inside. I feel like a murderer. We were also burning scrap, and I couldn't help but think of all the little caterpillars that were being incinerated in the flames. A horrible way to die I think. So I picked through each individual piece of wood, to make sure that there were no caterpillars on the boards. One of the contractors saw me doing this and told me to just dump the loads into the fire. I explained that I was killing the bugs and I coldn't do that becasue it made me feel horrible. She just said, "Well get over it." I think that that is one of the most ignorant and cold and wrong ways a person can be. It's not about the caterpillars. It's about my respect for life, and the sanctity I place on all life, even pests and plants. I walked off the job, and I don't think I'll go back. Please try and look past the surface of what was going on and look into the meaning of the situation. I adhere to a strict almost Buddhist philosophy when it comes to life. I wouldn't ask a Christian to spit on the crucifix, or a Muslim to not pray. Or make a Hindu eat beef. Or make a Jew eat Pork. It's just not right. Am I being unresonable when I take my beliefs into everyday life? Is it not ok to want to practice the core belief in your moral structure, even at the (small) expense to others? The way I see it, I was getting the job done, just slow. Now the job won't get done at all. Am I in the wrong? I wasn't offended by the boss's words, so much as her attitude with me, like my beliefs weren't valid, and that I should conform to their standards of living and practice. I won't do that, not for anyone. I'll die before I intentionally kill anything. Anyone share these views? Are they extreme?

vegan?

Whatever you do is cool. Live though. Expirence and then make a judgement.

Right now as far as reading what you've written your giving your job up for the catipillar. Your placing its life above yours. You need money to survive just as the catipillar needs substance to survive. Accidents are going to happen. Just learn from them.

Personally I don't go out of my way to kill something. If a bug is on the ground outside i'll definity try to not interupt its life. As for the spiders in my room, they are going to die. For my safety. That is the difference between right and wrong, intention. Nothing is really so black and white. So yes I think its a little extreme.

Aye, that's the funny thing. I'm not a vegan, or even vegetarian. Someone already killed it, why let it go to waste. Although as soon as I'm economicly able, I'll probably start heading that route. The job was small, no way did I lose out for the little guys, it's just, I've been formulating this moral structure for months now. And all I've had to do was be passive to uphold it. This was my first case having to go out on a limb and make a decision of hurt or help. It's causing a few problems in my head, and with the people I live with. I don't think I'm crazy, just a little more stringent. Or just naive. Killing goes on everyday, whether it's people killing people, or animals killing people, or people killing animals. Does it really matter if I kill a few insignificant creatures? I think it does, and that they are significant. Oh crap, this sucks. I wish i were dead, then i wouldn't have to deal with this.

Congratulations, not many people would take they're personal beleifs to such an outcome, which is why the world can be such a shitty place.

Do you think they're are deamons out there that just wan't to be nice?

Huh? I don't understand.

hmm...I bet the caterpillars wouldve thrown scrap wood or whatever and crushed you if they were of that size.

I have an obsession with snails that actually causes me the same feeling if I step on one. It absolutely destroys me.

But, I have to say, that's a really good way to lose your job.

Cheers,

Lost

Well if all the people that supposedly live by these peaceful, loving, non-violent, charatable, compassionate ect. religions acctualy did live that way then the world would be a nicer place, mostly.

Though it's not often in our psyco-biologic makeup to live this way, most are far to barbaric for that, myself included.

A plight of not being able to be who you truly wish you were, or being unable to be what your environment would seem to dictate. Like Count Duckular.

Humans are, The Destroyer, it is our destiny to destroy all the life on this planet, to destroy the planet itself, and in so, ourselves.

You disrespect your heritage, your destiny, by denying this.

[This message has been edited by Sol463 (edited 05-14-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

I have an obsession with snails that actually causes me the same feeling if I step on one. It absolutely destroys me.

But, I have to say, that's a really good way to lose your job.

Cheers,

Lost

It's not the caterpillars, it's all living creatures. I respect all sentient beings. Or I try to at least.

quote:Originally posted by evolove:

Well if all the people that supposedly live by these peaceful, loving, non-violent, charatable, compassionate ect. religions acctualy did live that way then the world would be a nicer place, mostly.

Though it's not often in our psyco-biologic makeup to live this way, most are far to barbaric for that, myself included.

A plight of not being able to be who you truly wish you were, or being unable to be what your environment would seem to dictate. Like Count Duckular.



Well, I do feel like I can't be how how really wish to be, or what my environment seems to dictate. i want to be peaceful, but my environment just won't let me stop killing.



quote:Originally posted by Sol463:

Humans are, The Destroyer, it is our destiny to destroy all the life on this planet, to destroy the planet itself, and in so, ourselves.

You disrespect your heritage, your destiny, by denying this.



It's this attitude that will cause humans to destroy the earth. That's just your belief, I don't agree, I think that it is man's responsibility to see that we don't destroy the earth, just like every other animal on the planet.

quote:Originally posted by KidKelko:

It's this attitude that will cause humans to destroy the earth. That's just your belief, I don't agree, I think that it is man's responsibility to see that we don't destroy the earth, just like every other animal on the planet.

Animals do not make the concious decision to not destroy the Earth, their actions are dictated by nature. They live and die, at Mother Nature's whim.

Humans as a species, of course, should try to learn some sort of self control.

Quitting your job is a luxury, you obviously have nothing that would tie you into the job, I would be impressed if you had three kids at home and a barefoot pregnant wife.

What do you sacrifice for your beliefs, really? Are you going to lose your house? Nothing of importance, right?

Do you honestly believe that your inclusion and activity in civilization is not paved on the blood of your precious animals and insects? Quitting your job is foolish and ignorant. Admit your hands are covered in the same blood as the rest of us and get back to work in the morning.

I don't care for killing insects, but sometimes it happens and sometimes it must happen.

You're right, I'm coming to a turning point in my life. It's going to be a tough road ahead. I'm beginning to think that I will cut myself off from civilization. The preparation for this will be difficult, I know. And before you come back saying, "Oh you'll have to kill all the time if you do that." I'm not adverse to killing for survival, just not wanton excess. I thin I may not have made my reasons for quiting clear, it wasn't the fact that I was killing animals, although it was disturbing me, it was my bosses attitude toward my beliefs, and the fact that she completely disregarded the fact that I didn't hold her veiw on the situation. I may have had a skewed view at the time though, I was in a pretty bad negative manic episode. And I've always had a burning hatred for the Upper Class. Although I still think I did the right thing, and that's all that matters ultimately.

i admire your conviction. personaly i think what you did was a tad excesive, altho i can relate if u were in a manic mood. I say go for the pacifist-ish way of life. But dont beat yourself up for the accidental death of a single catapiler. also dont ever compare youself with others, you must forsake society to follow your own path. And if your lucky then society will follow and well all be peace loveing, slightly odd :-p, people http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif) go for it man

i used t feel the exact same way, i would feel so bad about killing bugs and shit.

but two things happened in my life, first i got really pissed off, and relized, im a serial killer who just hasnt struck yet, so who cares about bugs if im seriously thinking about killing people? and i never lost my infatuation with murder, so i kinda dont think about stepping on an ant as much as i used to, but i still feel bad when something dies for no reason.

the other thing that happened to me is Thelema, i realized that *animals dont have have will*, and that doesnt mean you can be randomly cruel to them because theyre not the changers of the universe, but it meant to me, that if i have to kill something because i need to eat, or because the pest is ruining my house or something like that, then i have to dispose of it, its my Will to protect my house or whatever, even if it the catterpillar's Will (i know im saying the opposite of what i said at the * but thats the only way i can explain it) to eat my house. and im bigger than him...period.

if a giant came and killed me, i wouldnt like it because im dying and its my Will to survive, but its his Will to eat me to survive, so even though i need to do what i need to do, it isnt "wrong" for him to kill me even though i dont like it.

so basicly, if i see someone killing for no reason or no use, then i get so pissed i beat them into retardation, but i understand that shooting that cow in the face so i can eat a burger is part of survival and Will.

anyone know this--

what is you will

to eat

what is your will to eat

to sustain myself

etc

to live longer to promote the great work

etc etc

so basicly, sometimes things have to die for a reason, but it isnt right for things to die for no reason

quote:Originally posted by seraph~aral:

i used t feel the exact same way, i would feel so bad about killing bugs and shit.

...

so basicly, sometimes things have to die for a reason, but it isnt right for things to die for no reason



Exactly my point. It's wrong to kill something for no reason. If you can spare it, why kill it?

i agree.