Whilsts tranversing through the religiouds spectrum I was exposed to several Prevalent Propoganda-oriented beliefs is a adverse manifestations of mainstream religions archaic mentality and iherently oppresive social hierachy

1. Killing Animals- Pagan practictionists are inherently conscious and adamently respect the sancity of life.

2. Curses- Any magickal manifestation of malicious intent is blatantly contradictory to their mentality,ideology and basic morality in accordance with the ethereal laws of karma

3. Invockation of "Evil Dieities" A a myth Reminiscent of the Archaic witch burning days

the Prime reason for this misconcepton is the ( i forgot what they call it necklace) that vaguely resembles a satanic cross my best attempt to refute is to take a closer look at the star od david

Clarification on number 2 It is controversial on whether the ancient Pagan religions expressedly prohibited curses as some argue that its a doctrine implemented inthe witch burning days although wicca i know always banned it

Christianity is, believe it or not, opposed to killing, greed and ambition which nonetheless are the cornerstones of modern, capitalist, predominantly Christian societies. More often than not, the religion itself is pacifistic and altruistic, however people often claim it as justification to exert power or achieve personal ends.

The same could apply to paganism.

At its core, paganism can claim to be one with nature and espouse good will for all mankind, but a religion, like a gun, is nothing without people. People fuck up.

I think you're failing to seperate the ideal from the reality.

quote:Originally posted by inquingconsciouss:

Whilsts tranversing through the religiouds spectrum I was exposed to several Prevalent Propoganda-oriented beliefs is a adverse manifestations of mainstream religions archaic mentality and iherently oppresive social hierachy

1. Killing Animals- Pagan practictionists are inherently conscious and adamently respect the sancity of life.

2. Curses- Any magickal manifestation of malicious intent is blatantly contradictory to their mentality,ideology and basic morality in accordance with the ethereal laws of karma

3. Invockation of "Evil Dieities" A a myth Reminiscent of the Archaic witch burning days

the Prime reason for this misconcepton is the ( i forgot what they call it necklace) that vaguely resembles a satanic cross my best attempt to refute is to take a closer look at the star od david

Clarification on number 2 It is controversial on whether the ancient Pagan religions expressedly prohibited curses as some argue that its a doctrine implemented inthe witch burning days although wicca i know always banned it

Your list is quite right, but ONLY if you are talking about NEO paganism.

I am sooooo sick of these stupid idiots calling themselves "witches" and telling me that their religion is thousands of years old.

Any wiccans reading this: WICCA WAS STARTED IN THE 1950's!!!! when an old man claimed he was initiated into a surviving witch coven and started writing books about it.

Most historians agree that he was full of shit, but some don't, and a lot of people believe him, go figure.

But most of the "magick" in wicca is a dumbed down version of the Golden Dawn System. (how interesting that Gardener was a Member of the OTO, which would have used a lot of the same rituals as the GD)

Oh, and REAL pagan's DID sacrifice animals, not all, but some did. Heck, some sacrificed people. Then on the other hand, some just sacrificed wine and stuff.

In response to your points, I might just add a bit - sortof my opinion

1. The majority of "pagans" I know wouldnt have the guts to kill an animal... teenage girls (even rebelious one's) tend to get all squeamish at the sight of blood.

2. You need not stop at "curses". It's a common misconception that pagan's and wiccan's use magick, this however, is untrue.

To count as magick, it has to work.

3. I agree... most pagan's find out about a few ancient god's and goddesses, and select the one's they like the best, from totally different pantheon's, and "worship" them.

Funny thing is, the ancient people who originally worshipped these god's would probably consider this sort of crap to be blasphemy!

Ok... my rant is done.

I have purposefully picked on a certain stereotype of pagan's, and I do realize that most arn't like that (well... I hope) but some ARE... unfortunately, me being in highschool, this sort is the sort I am exposed to the most.

I don't particularly want to get into an intellectual debate about paganism at least, not until I either sleep, or get some coffee. But I do know a fair bit on the subject. Maybe tomorrow

I currently am coming down with the flu, so I'll keep my point simple.

NightFalcon is right.

Also,

quote:Any magickal manifestation of malicious intent is blatantly contradictory to their mentality,ideology and basic morality in accordance with the ethereal laws of karma

Love spells. They're considered evil too, by the law of three. Funny thing is, any pre-50's pagan would have been laughing his ass off at that law. The universe doesn't have an inbuilt 'kick in the pants' mechanism, sorry to say it (at least, not before death - after is debateable).

one thing to think of.

The romans enjoyed watching people sacrifice their lives in the arena for fun. we could say that the romans had a very bloodthirsty culture.

yet, they banned the english druids (pagans) as they were too extreme...eg doing really sick live human sacrifices ect...

thats real pagan worship, the current new wicca or whatever is just really a new form of tree hugging for all i care.

Yea modern wiccas are too exploited by the market, it is as real as punks and rockers.

quote:Originally posted by LostEquation:

Christianity is, believe it or not, opposed to killing, greed and ambition which nonetheless are the cornerstones of modern, capitalist, predominantly Christian societies.

Name one society where those weren't cornerstones. Welcome to human nature, population: six billion.

You guys do know that a pagan is simply anyone who doesn't worship 'the one true God'? Right? Oh yeah, most of you are fucking dildos.

Pagans: Yes, some sacrifices animals and people, most didn't. Yes, some of them attempted to cast curses...guess what? Most didn't (in the middle ages, most pagans were atheists as their weren't really any choices besides Christianity, Islam, or Judaism...they had no reason to sacrifice or to 'cast magic *cough* doesn't work *cough*). And Yes, some pagans attempted to invoke evil spirits...guess what? Most didn't.

Gasp! What was that? It's called the results of fucking reasoning and research, try it some time you fucking twats.

Hex, if I knew you I'd hug you. That was beautiful. Seriously, that... I... I'm crying...

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

You guys do know that a pagan is simply anyone who doesn't worship 'the one true God'? Right? Oh yeah, most of you are fucking dildos.

Pagans: Yes, some sacrifices animals and people, most didn't. Yes, some of them attempted to cast curses...guess what? Most didn't (in the middle ages, most pagans were atheists as their weren't really any choices besides Christianity, Islam, or Judaism...they had no reason to sacrifice or to 'cast magic *cough* doesn't work *cough*). And Yes, some pagans attempted to invoke evil spirits...guess what? Most didn't.

Gasp! What was that? It's called the results of fucking reasoning and research, try it some time you fucking twats.

yeah... I agree, but the original poster was refering to Neo Paganism.

Of course, he didn't mention that, because he has no idea what the fuck paganism is defined as.

inquingconsciouss:

Jesus, put the fucking thesaurus away. It sounds like you're picking words out of the dictionary at random, then typing them up incorrectly and bodging them into sentences.

The best way to show intelligence through writing is clarity, wit, corret grammar, and punctuation.

quote:Originally posted by VampireSlaya:

I currently am coming down with the flu, so I'll keep my point simple.

NightFalcon is right.

Also,

Any magickal manifestation of malicious intent is blatantly contradictory to their mentality,ideology and basic morality in accordance with the ethereal laws of karma

Love spells. They're considered evil too, by the law of three. Funny thing is, any pre-50's pagan would have been laughing his ass off at that law. The universe doesn't have an inbuilt 'kick in the pants' mechanism, sorry to say it (at least, not before death - after is debateable).

Karma belongs in neo-paganism as well.

The old European paganists didn't have a law of karma.

quote:Originally posted by nevermind:

one thing to think of.

The romans enjoyed watching people sacrifice their lives in the arena for fun. we could say that the romans had a very bloodthirsty culture.

yet, they banned the english druids (pagans) as they were too extreme...eg doing really sick live human sacrifices ect...

You are probably referring to that Wicker man thing, where the sacrificial victim was locked into a giant wicker construction resembling a human shape, which was then set afire.

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

Pagans: Yes, some sacrifices animals and people, most didn't. Yes, some of them attempted to cast curses...guess what? Most didn't (in the middle ages, most pagans were atheists as their weren't really any choices besides Christianity, Islam, or Judaism...they had no reason to sacrifice or to 'cast magic *cough* doesn't work *cough*). And Yes, some pagans attempted to invoke evil spirits...guess what? Most didn't.

From time to time you would stumble upon small rural communities practising some kind of erotically oriented dionysian rites, where about the whole village would partake into communal orgiastic frolicking.

I believe this existed in the middle ages upto ...? and probably more in eastern European regions, close to Russia.

[This message has been edited by Uncus (edited 05-25-2004).]

If anyone is wanting to talk about ancient (100 BCE-1000 AD) European and north Asian religions such as Druidism and its cousins, I'm quite knowledgeable about them due to studying my family tree.

Due to the thought provoking contributions by Hexadecimal I would like to admit my insufficent knowldge pertaining to Neo-Paganism predecessors and the doctrines. Social/economic demographic.

I just felt that in accordance with the prevalent archaic propaganda that more mainstream religions perpetuate that it is imperative to dispell the fascist undertones

quote:Originally posted by 256:

The best way to show intelligence through writing is clarity, wit, corret grammar, and punctuation.

And corret speling?

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

Oh yeah, most of you are fucking dildos.

Is that supposed to be a bad thing?

Face it, the most common myth about pagans is that they ever had anything in common, even the definition itself is up for grabs.

Run Screaming:



Damn it. At least I'm trying.

The only thing that EVERY pagan has in common is that follow alternative faiths (not one of the main 3, in other words).

this one teenage "witch" cast a spell on my desk to set it on fire. it hasnt burst into flames yet...

but the one thing where the villigers started fucking eachother was called lagunasa? or sumthen im readin this book set in ad 479-500 england and they were doin sumthen like that.