religeon has served its purpose it's time to leave it behind. religeon is used by primitive ill educated people to try to explain the apparently unexplainable events and systems in the universe. but now we have real explanations for how things work that are even more amazing than anything in the bible or other bullshit book, brought to us by the discoveries made in science. science and religeon are incompatible, so to prevent religeon from holding the human race back from making the REAL discoveries of the future(stem cell reseach)through science, we should wipe out religeon because it's all bollocks(pardon my french) we can't go on in this state where 3/4 of the worlds population is living in what is mass histeria when it comes down to it.

we should do like the communists did, re-educate them, send religeous leaders to their deaths(where's god now? haha) anyway they shouldn't mind they're going to heaven anyway(unless they used religeon as a way to molest children)

people who believe in things that don't exist shouldn't be allowed to vote, because their minds aren't fully engaged with reality, so why should the fate of all of us be entrusted to those who can't distinguish facts from fiction? why? why?

we can have the world the religeous should all be despatched towards heaven.

Although i am not religious in any way, shape or form, i think that to scrap religion would be extrmely short sighted. everyone needs something to believe in, with apathy comes chaos.

incidentally. wrong forum?

So basically your suggestion is to make a religion out of hating religion.

...With your divine mandate from [insert radical ideology here], you embark on a crusade...

...and with religious fervor wipe out the unholy believers...

first of all, "way, shape or form"???

what does that mean? why don't you just type "way" people who say "way, shape or form" are usually stupid.

maybe just wipe out the parts of religeon that conflict with science and the parts that are intolerant and the parts that make peace impossible. basically the whole bible and all the major religeons, if the religeon asks it's followers to believe something literally which has been proved wrong by science the religeon must be wrong. if these things have been proven false(creation) but also claim to be the "word of god" then the only explanation can be that the book was written by humans. if the holy book that guides those that follow the religeon in their everyday lives is unreliable then how can we be sure that the codes of morallity etc. in the rest of the book are reliable? we can't. the whole point is that humans started religeon, humans that lived in a very different time to now, humans that were fallable, why should most of the worlds population live by the word of some HUMAN guy living 2000+ years ago.

ps. name a current war that isn't betwean two opposing religeons.

ps. religeon breeds hate.

ps. god doesn't exist.

i agree with you completely but it should be in "my god can beat the shit out of your god" and i would say communism is a religion you worship the state.

alot of wars are caused by plain greed.

you are right though alot of wars are caused by conflicting ideals

why are you spelling it religeon???

**Correction**

People breed hate.

quote:Originally posted by davidven:

first of all, "way, shape or form"???

what does that mean? why don't you just type "way" people who say "way, shape or form" are usually stupid.



Its a figure of speech. I am more clever than you. Wanker.

MGCKTSOOY(G?) or bitch and moan

I dont think you really get atheists. Everyone deep down must have the conviction that they will carry on existing in some respect after death otherwise well all go nuts. Peoples religion should be respected as long as it doesnt go to extremes like a lot of Muslims nowadays or Christianity in the past (emphasis being on in the past)

Blow it out your ass. Not everyone thinks the same as you.

Unless you make them think the same as you. Or at least, you can make them act as if they think the same, which is good enough, if not even better.

quote:Originally posted by davidven:

first of all, "way, shape or form"???

what does that mean? why don't you just type "way" people who say "way, shape or form" are usually stupid.

maybe just wipe out the parts of religeon that conflict with science and the parts that are intolerant and the parts that make peace impossible. basically the whole bible and all the major religeons, if the religeon asks it's followers to believe something literally which has been proved wrong by science the religeon must be wrong. if these things have been proven false(creation) but also claim to be the "word of god" then the only explanation can be that the book was written by humans. if the holy book that guides those that follow the religeon in their everyday lives is unreliable then how can we be sure that the codes of morallity etc. in the rest of the book are reliable? we can't. the whole point is that humans started religeon, humans that lived in a very different time to now, humans that were fallable, why should most of the worlds population live by the word of some HUMAN guy living 2000+ years ago.

ps. name a current war that isn't betwean two opposing religeons.

ps. religeon breeds hate.

ps. god doesn't exist.

your intolerance of intolerance is hilarious and so is your spelling

quote:Originally posted by davidven:

ps. name a current war that isn't betwean two opposing religeons.

The War on Terror is about geostrategic dominance, not religion. Note how neither side has religious objectives - the U.S. wants a global system that reinforces its dominance, while Al Qaeda wants an American withdrawal from Muslim lands. If it's about religion, why do they both appeal to their enemy's coreligionists? Al Qaeda offered Europe a truce, and America supports Muslim resistance groups in Iran. Saying "Allahu Akbar" or "God Bless America" is simply window dressing to inspire recruits and quiet dissent.

As for religion being irrational, no shit, Sherlock. It's not supposed to rational. It's supposed to be a crutch for the lost and aimless, a nice, pre-made plan that tells people how to live their lives and help them avoid the pain and difficulty of finding out for themselves. And if the way they live their lives results in a smoothly-running society, so much the better.

And of course, YOU calling somebody else irrational sounds just a wee bit ridiculous...

Humans aren't rational don't expect what they create to be. What about religions with no god? There's quite a few of those.

Now, you seem to be carrying on the same thing religious extremists are attempting. Forcing your frame of mind on others. The best way to vanquish religion is to build a society in which it becomes useless even though it's there.

Good Luck, Zealot!

abolish free thought while you're at it

Dogmatic atheists are just as bad as fanatical Christians or Muslims.

Actually, dogmatic anything is just plain bad.

This is not the forum for religeon.

-=Sephiroth=-

quote:Originally posted by davidven:

religeon has served its purpose it's time to leave it behind. religeon is used by primitive ill educated people to try to explain the apparently unexplainable events and systems in the universe. but now we have real explanations for how things work that are even more amazing than anything in the bible or other bullshit book, brought to us by the discoveries made in science. science and religeon are incompatible, so to prevent religeon from holding the human race back from making the REAL discoveries of the future(stem cell reseach)through science, we should wipe out religeon because it's all bollocks(pardon my french) we can't go on in this state where 3/4 of the worlds population is living in what is mass histeria when it comes down to it.

we should do like the communists did, re-educate them, send religeous leaders to their deaths(where's god now? haha) anyway they shouldn't mind they're going to heaven anyway(unless they used religeon as a way to molest children)

people who believe in things that don't exist shouldn't be allowed to vote, because their minds aren't fully engaged with reality, so why should the fate of all of us be entrusted to those who can't distinguish facts from fiction? why? why?

we can have the world the religeous should all be despatched towards heaven.

You know what davidven FUCK YOU.Who are you to say that God doesnt exist and that all religons are wrong.Have you studed each and every religion there is?Of course not so dont just say well these people belive in something I dont see so its wrong and science is right cause I can see that.This is a topic you know nothing about.

Oh, you'd have to get rid of all the atheists too then. Atheism is a religion... or didn't you know that?

1) There is absolutely no proof that there is NOT a god.

2) Therefore: Atheism is based on "faith" and is the result of a desire to "believe" that there is no god.

3) An honest and informed atheist knows this and will not debate the issue.

4) An less honest or less informed atheist works a number of tactics to avoid admitting this. The primary tactic is to put a believer (in any god) on the defensive by bringing irrelevant points into the discussion. In this manner the atheist avoids answering the primary question.

5) Ignoring the fact that atheism is indeed a "faith based" religion, atheists falsely wrap themselves in the cloak of science and falsely claim that anyone who doesn't "believe" as they do is unscientific.

6) Rationally, the best that an anti-god follower can do is declare that he is an "agnostic" - he doesn't know if there "IS" or "IS NOT" a god.

as far as it concerns me i prefer to believe in GOD and worship him than to worship a Human

eg: Stalin ,Kim yong il,Saddam

Atheism is not based off faith. Atheism is based off logic. And as an atheist I do think we should get rid off religion. So many wars have been fought over your beliefs. And even worse is that it has slowed down the progress of science, because science conflicts with parts of your dogma. You are talking about us pushing our beliefs on others? What about you pushing your beliefs on your children. So adept has the church become at brainwashing children. To let people believe in the religion lies is wrong. Religion is harming our society. Look at the church's view on birth control, we are already overpopulating our planet and the church is against the things that will help.

quote:Originally posted by liquid:

Everyone deep down must have the conviction that they will carry on existing in some respect after death otherwise well all go nuts.

Hell no. The only way I'm going to carry on existing is as a collection of molecules that were once part of me - and even those probably won't last forever. I'm not nuts, AFAIK.

quote:Originally posted by VampireSlaya:

1) There is absolutely no proof that there is NOT a god.

Good thing most atheists don't claim there is.

quote:2) Therefore: Atheism is based on "faith" and is the result of a desire to "believe" that there is no god.

Really? What about the atheists who desperately wanted to believe but weren't able to?

quote:6) Rationally, the best that an anti-god follower can do is declare that he is an "agnostic" - he doesn't know if there "IS" or "IS NOT" a god.

"An anti-god follower"? That's ridiculous. I'm not anti-god, I just don't have a reason to think one exists.

I don't know for certain if there "IS" or "IS NOT" a god, but why should I think there is?

I generally consider myself an atheist because I don't believe in any one set religion. I really can't believe in most of the religions that I've read about except for buddhism. At times I think there may be some higher power, but others I feel completely alone. And I hate it when idiots like this give Atheists a bad name. Quit bitching, doucheven.

"Really? What about the atheists who desperately wanted to believe but weren't able to?"

Ooh ooh! He's talking about atheists like me!

I hope you enjoy hell motherfucker. damn you to hell!!

quote:Atheism is not based off faith. Atheism is based off logic

Logic requires evidence... oops - you have as much as me!

quote:Good thing most atheists don't claim there is.

Then why do all atheists say there is no God? I mean you're all so logical!

quote:Really? What about the atheists who desperately wanted to believe but weren't able to?

It's called scepticism (or skepticism in america). Still is a belief.

quote:"An anti-god follower"? That's ridiculous. I'm not anti-god, I just don't have a reason to think one exists.

I don't know for certain if there "IS" or "IS NOT" a god, but why should I think there is?

Do you outright believe there is no God? If so, then you're an atheist.

If you don't know, then you're an agnostic.

By anti-god, it means someone who believes God doesn't exist.

And to answer your question with another question, why should you believe he doesn't?

VampireSlaya, you're forgetting one of the main principles of logic: No evidence means no support for the positive. No evidence has absolutely no bearing on the negative. For a positive claim one has to have evidence. For a negative claim, one has to have no evidence. (Because by all means, if no evidence exists, then the negative is the assumed position)

Perhaps you should study up on logic, critical thinking, and reasoning a wee bit, eh?

i agree completely with davidven and any other atheist who posted in support of him us atheist are just interested in moving into he future and forgetting old and false traditions there are many things in the bible that are proven wrong by science people who post things like have fun in hell you spelling is horrible are just trying to have an excuse to once again put hate on people who dont believe in what they do they are desperate words of a primitive person unwilling to listen to modern science and are unwilling tomove into the future there are many smart people who can become scientists but dont want to just because the bible says one thing is true and anything else is wrong

the bible or any other relgious book's unsaid motto is: "our way is the only way any other is wrong and will lead you into hell"

i think it's better to suffer from relligion than to suffer from Atheists eg:

North Korea,Staline,Lenin himself a litle count will show you that Staline victims are more than BinLaden or Bush victims i think we should get rid of Bad people regardless of their believes first then get rid of Corrupt relligions of course i think that Islam should remain the only alternative .

"get rid"...do you perhaps mean mass murder on an extent larger than Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, Mao, and others combined? See, Hitler killed a bit under 10 mil in the Holocaust, a couple million in combat. Stalin killed 50 million or so of his own civilians and a massive number of Germans. However, with the current population of the earth at a good 6.5 or so billion, you'd have to murder BILLIONS of people to satisfy your conditions, making you a worse murderer than ANY OTHER PERSON IN HISTORY.

quote:No evidence means no support for the positive. No evidence has absolutely no bearing on the negative.

Actually, not true - it's very possible to have evidence of a negative. How do you think they disprove scientific theories?

And my point still holds - it's not logical to come out and say 'there is no God' without any evidence either way.

If we get rid of religion then Humans will find other things to fight about. Like resources. Some people need things to believe because maybe they cant deal with reality. Religion doesnt breed hate, People breed hate. Its human nature and there will always be someone fighting someone.

quote:Originally posted by spicy69:

why are you spelling it religeon???

haha maybe he's british

your idea of geting rid of religon might be the stupidest thing i've ever heard.

1) Out of the top 10 smartest kids in my school i think about 7 of the are serious christains and go to church everysunday.

2) Religon gives alot of people a better life and makes them happy. Ever heard of "ignorance is bliss" well if they wanna be slow and happy then let them go right ahead. we only live for around 80 years pn average and thats not a to long when you look at it. you might as well spend it happy.

3) Yes religon slows down the progress of mankind but there are plenty of people out there working hard to figure out the real answers.

4) Religon for many sets a moral code for many to live by. With exeption to some extremist, most religous people are very peaceful and respect one another. Without religon many would have done whatever they wanted without fearing the consiquences. Fearing god has helped give a bit of order to many.

and no i'm not religous at all.

1. Freaker stfu

2. I would both agree and disagree with the person that started this thread. Religion can sometimes be a good thing because it give people faith. It inspires and encourages them to do great things like God Budha and etc. There are also bad things about religion too. Some people warp and change the words of Gods so it fits their evil motive. For example, the KKK say they are loyal Christian. Yet, they murder peeps that are different from them. That isn't what God stood for and they really suck. Yeah...

quote:Originally posted by Hexadecimal:

"get rid"...do you perhaps mean mass murder on an extent larger than Stalin, Lenin, Hitler, Mao, and others combined? See, Hitler killed a bit under 10 mil in the Holocaust, a couple million in combat. Stalin killed 50 million or so of his own civilians and a massive number of Germans. However, with the current population of the earth at a good 6.5 or so billion, you'd have to murder BILLIONS of people to satisfy your conditions, making you a worse murderer than ANY OTHER PERSON IN HISTORY.

Me ?no Indonesia the most populous Islamic country turned muslim because of trade they found that Muslim traders are honest so they

Adopted Islam we have many ways to control the world we are already winnin in European ground.

quote:Originally posted by gravitybong:

i agree completely with davidven and any other atheist who posted in support of him us atheist are just interested in moving into he future and forgetting old and false traditions

You fucking idiots are why people give me crap for being an atheist.

Look, dipshit, I don't believe in God, or gods, or whatever. But I don't go around telling people they're dumbasses for believing in their religion, unless they assault my determined unbelief first. I also don't maintain some childish illusion that stripping away one of the most basic tenets of large-scale human society will cause anything besides mass chaos.

I'm not interested in "forgetting false traditions." Those traditions, false though they may be, have defined humanity from its birth. You idiots offend me, not just as an atheist, but as a student of history. You wail over the crusades but forget the works of great religious missionaries. You decry religion but forget that the first major charitable organization in Europe was the Catholic Church. You turn on your own intellectual blinders and wholly ignore facts that don't support your foolish viewpoint.

You're WORSE than the Christians and other theists you abhor. You cloak yourself in claims of empiricism, then ignore the facts in front of your face. Maggot.

^

That's why I missed ya http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

I am not not atheist, but I do agree that the right hand path religions are pure bullshit. Eventually, they will be phased out as more people will come to their senses and actually use their brains. They in turn will teach their kids and we will finally be able to grow as a society. Atheism is not a religion, nor is it something to hide behind. This country was founded by freethinkers, not Christians. I don't force my beliefs on anyone. However, if attacked, you must defend yourself, and religion always loses to logic. And if you really think about it, it's not creation or evolution. It's both. How else to you explain the sudden jump in evolution that occurred? We went from simple tools to written language and printing machines in a matter of a few thousands years. We just got a little push is all.

Do you have any idea how long people have been saying that for?

quote:This country was founded by freethinkers, not Christians.

america was founded by protestant christians to be a safe place to practice their religion... sorry, you're wrong.

Sorry VampireSlaya, you're wrong. The Pilgrims did not found the U.S. Constitution.

"The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."

..From the "Treaty of Tripoli" which was signed during the term of George Washington and ratified by congress during the term of John Adams.

"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?"

..John Adams To F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816

"The Christian god is a three headed monster, cruel, vengeful, and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites."

..Thomas Jefferson

"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."

..Thomas Jefferson

"Christianity...(has become) the most perverted system that ever shone on man. ...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus."

..Thomas Jefferson

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church."

..Thomas Paine

The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.

..Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, 1758

"Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion and Government in the Constitution of the United States, the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history"

..James Madison, undated, William and Mary Quarterly, 1946, 3:555

"Religion and government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."

..James Madison

"The bible is not my book and Christianity is not my religion. I could never give assent to the long complicated statements of Christian dogma."

..Abraham Lincoln

"No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States"

(U. S. Constitution, 1787, Art. 6, Sec. 3).

quote:Originally posted by VampireSlaya:

Actually, not true - it's very possible to have evidence of a negative. How do you think they disprove scientific theories?

A completely different question. How do you disprove the existence of God? Believers can say just about anything to make things like the presence of evil to make sense, but the lack of evidence for any gods (despite millenia of searching and belief) speaks volumes.

quote:And my point still holds - it's not logical to come out and say 'there is no God' without any evidence either way.

Mischaracterization of atheists. Most people who call themselves atheists don't say "there are no gods", they say "I don't believe in any gods".

quote:Originally posted by Barefoot J:

We went from simple tools to written language and printing machines in a matter of a few thousands years. We just got a little push is all.

Did we get a little push when we went from basic mechanics to heavily industrialized and networked in a matter of a couple hundred years too?

Why can a god explain this and human innovation can't?

quote:Did we get a little push when we went from basic mechanics to heavily industrialized and networked in a matter of a couple hundred years too?

Why can a god explain this and human innovation can't?

Well first you must realize that are brains are just a tad bit different nowadays, compared to Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon man. There's a huge difference between mechanics to industrialization and sharpened rocks to metallurgy, domestication, advanced chemistry, mathematical systems, musical theory, complex architecture, medical practices, etc. Our advancement has nothing to do with the astounding rate at which these people progressed.

You can't wipe out religion.you just can't..this would bring an end to all socities..

But it wasn't a leap from stone tools to metallurgy, it was many small steps.

From hunter-gatherers with stone knives to farmers with stone knives isn't terribly revolutionary in my mind. There was very little change in the way people did things for thousands of years, it's only recently that things are happening at any speed at all.

I don't think a god is necessary to explain things like bronze working and building big things out of rocks.

What about stone tools to brain surgery? It took 2 million years to get from rocks to sharpened rocks. Is it so completely ludacris to think that maybe beings from another planet came here and taught us how to do things? I certainly don't think so. But hey, thats just me.

[This message has been edited by Barefoot J (edited 05-30-2004).]

You can't even spell "religion"...

I'm closing this thread.

Cheers,

Lost