who created you ?

This is obviously a loaded question.If I were to believe that I was "created",I would then have to believe in some sort of supernatural entity.By believeing in such an entity,I would not be atheist.



Answer this: Who created god?

How goes it Prince? How is everything in (Morocco isn't it)?

"who" implies an entity, but "what" would be no less divine. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

... who cares about how everything started? We might never know for sure, so why not to live our lives now, in present time?

Why to oppose each other, live and let the others live.

I am the hippy of the thread.

peace.

[This message has been edited by Sniper (edited 06-02-2004).]

I was born, not created.

My parents duh.

quote:Originally posted by Jesus:

My parents duh.

Jesus! Can I suck your balls?

quote:Originally posted by Jesus:

My parents duh.

So true ^

Nothing/nobody created 'me', because 'I' do not exist. What/who created all the atoms in the world is a better one. But there are questions that are more valid to such a discussion.

Such as WHY would anything/anyone want to create all this nonsense in the first place?!? Just to be praised for doing it? Sounds egotistical and ridiculous.

The problem I have with the question of who/what may have created us is this: it simply does not answer the question of Total Creation at all. As someone said earlier, if 'god' created us, then who/what created 'god'? I simply accept that this question is beyond comprehension. Just the thought of some 'beginning' to EVERYTHING is uncomprehensible to me.

yes my poor latino friend. that's because the universe has always existed, the end.

quote:Originally posted by truckfixr:

Answer this: Who created god?

Goddamnit you janked my answer..

quote:Originally posted by princecharmant1980:

who created you ?

I don't know.

If you're asking whether or not I can take any peace from not knowing where I came from, let me say that I wouldn't mind knowing for certain whether it was creation or evolution or something else which created me, but the lack of knowledge doesn't bother me.

Did we lose a few posts?

I find the fact that there are millions of lines of independent confirming evidence for evolution, evidence that can't exist in an instant creationism model, very comforting with my current view.

What's better is the fact that there are plenty of things to falsify the view, but none of them have come to light and show no sign of doing so.

quote:Originally posted by cunfoozedmunkee:

yes my poor latino friend. that's because the universe has always existed, the end.Well going with this belief, the universe has alsways existed, so it had no creation. So with God, He has always existed, he has no Creation. He always was, and always shall be. Just like the universe. Hmm, now if we put two and two together, we get three! God is the Universe!

uhhhhhh, i have evidence the universe exists. however, i have no evidence a God exists...

[This message has been edited by cunfoozedmunkee (edited 06-03-2004).]

[This message has been edited by cunfoozedmunkee (edited 06-03-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by princecharmant1980:

who created you ?

Well, if I might borrow a line from Mr. Vonnegut,

"I was the victim of a series of accidents, as are we all."

Bravo to the hippies. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

Mr. Charmant, I've been wondering if Islam regards the Great One as a human form. Because it certainly says that He is very different from us, but it also says we were created in His image.

I wonder if there is an alternate meaning to 'image' here, any help you could give with this?

Awesome answer truckerfixer

quote:Originally posted by Phrensied Rabbits:

Well, if I might borrow a line from Mr. Vonnegut,

"I was the victim of a series of accidents, as are we all."

Bravo to the hippies. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

Mr. Charmant, I've been wondering if Islam regards the Great One as a human form. Because it certainly says that He is very different from us, but it also says we were created in His image.

I wonder if there is an alternate meaning to 'image' here, any help you could give with this?

if god created man in his own image, and so i look like god.. does that mean god's in trouble?

quote:Originally posted by princecharmant1980:

who created you ?

created? that seems to impliy skilled labor, with consious thought going into the process.(I'm to lazy to get a dictionary and look up a complete definition) Reproduction is notorious for not needing skilled labor, and some places in the deep south support this, and also support the theory of evolution at the same time. Needless to say, if you were created, it implies to me, at least, that your parents had to take a class to figure out how.(or god did, at any rate, then deliverd you under a rose bush via a stork)

Edit: spelling

[This message has been edited by Duck (edited 06-04-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Duck (edited 06-04-2004).]

well when to people love each other very much...

-jesus was a regular man

-he used the term god to describe spirituality because gods already existed, it was a concept people could wrap their heads around. he had one god to encompass all of humanity.

-his stories are not meant to be taken literally, they are metaphors

-the afterlife he refers to are our children and our childrens children living in peace and prosperity, our seed living on in harmony

why dosent everyone understand this? it seems so obvious when you think about it

My god can beat the living shit out of your god.

Now seriously, I was created by an infusion of sperm and egg in the uterus of a female of my species. The infusion fertilized the egg, causing growth, resulting in a fetus, which matured in the womb until ready for birth.

I am not an atheist. But, however I am opposed to cristianity. You really need to do your research, cristianity is a mere baby compared to many religions that abound.So how with all this god created the earth and created people's lives bullshit do you factor in that early people's writings did not mention in the least of a great and powerful god that "said there was light and then there was light" My view on the subject, not that you guys would be interested, but how could you consider a document like the Bible to be sacred and a testament of your whole religion? I mean it's transferred through mortal writing, and we humans have been known to be particularly insiduous when it comes to our ego molding what we assimilate around us into what we believe to be right in our own minds. -Someone please reply, I would enjoy hearing another's view on the subject.Laterz

I Think "Science" has already answered this one?

The government.

quote:Originally posted by papaverprince:

I am not an atheist. But, however I am opposed to cristianity.

Athiests believe there is No God...Agnostics believe there MIGHT be a God and if there is.... well, he/she or it is UNDEFINED.

quote:You really need to do your research, cristianity is a mere baby compared to many religions that abound.

The Old "My religion is older than yours argument". This guy is right, there are older books or litature that is Older than the Bible, but the argument that if God wrote a book , it would be the OLDEST and FIRST is an ASSUMPTION! People that are intellectually lazy, always assume this argument.



quote:So how with all this god created the earth and created people's lives bullshit do you factor in that early people's writings did not mention in the least of a great and powerful god that "said there was light and then there was light"

First of all, the bible is a REVELATION of God, he REVEALED it when he thought it was appropriate and to who he thougt it was appropriate....the JEWS!



quote:I mean it's transferred through mortal writing, and we humans have been known to be particularly insiduous....

The old "How do you know what God wrote when the Bible has been copied and copied" argument......

Short and Simple...God can and has PRESERVED his Book, and if you dont buy this explanation, well ask yourself one thing....IF a God wrote a book, shouldnt I find out what he wrote?

I debate athiest all the time whenever I run into them, in my opinion,the basic reason a person is an Athiest is MOTIVE not because of a lack of proof or intellectual arguments in favor of God. The individual wants to do whatever they want, and have no interest in investigating the Bible/God.

"The only real argument against God is a Bad life" -webster

quote:Originally posted by princecharmant1980:

who created you ?

Who created you?

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

The old "How do you know what God wrote when the Bible has been copied and copied" argument......

Short and Simple...God can and has PRESERVED his Book, and if you dont buy this explanation, well ask yourself one thing....IF a God wrote a book, shouldnt I find out what he wrote?

I debate athiest all the time whenever I run into them, in my opinion,the basic reason a person is an Athiest is MOTIVE not because of a lack of proof or intellectual arguments in favor of God. The individual wants to do whatever they want, and have no interest in investigating the Bible/God.

"The only real argument against God is a Bad life" -webster

the old, 'my god really inspired a book, your god and his book was made up by mine to mislead the wicked.'

you are such a buffoon.

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

I debate athiest all the time whenever I run into them, in my opinion,the basic reason a person is an Athiest is MOTIVE not because of a lack of proof or intellectual arguments in favor of God. The individual wants to do whatever they want, and have no interest in investigating the Bible/God.



Just because atheists don't agree with the Christian moral code doesn't mean that they don't have any code of behavior. It's called ethics. There are Christians, Muslims, and Buddhists in jail the same as atheists. Being an atheist doesn't make it okay to steal, murder, or lie, and most atheists avoid as much as the average Christian. (which is not much) It just means that we don't agree with most other facets of Christian morality/theology.

Idiot.

quote:Originally posted by JohnTitorsAssistant:

Just because atheists don't agree with the Christian moral code doesn't mean that they don't have any code of behavior. It's called ethics. There are Christians, Muslims, and Buddhists in jail the same as atheists. Being an atheist doesn't make it okay to steal, murder, or lie, and most atheists avoid as much as the average Christian. (which is not much) It just means that we don't agree with most other facets of Christian morality/theology.

Idiot.

I agree . Morality/ethics are necessary to be a functional member of society.You don't need religion to know the difference between what is right and wrong.

quote:Originally posted by truckfixr:

I agree . Morality/ethics are necessary to be a functional member of society.You don't need religion to know the difference between what is right and wrong.



Also, I think there's more merit in an athiest who behaves morally out of the goodness of his/her heart than a religious person who does it out of fear of god and merely to get into heaven.

I wasn't created, I grew. I'm a very cool arrangement of matter and energy, not some contrived magical construct.

[This message has been edited by sp0rkius (edited 06-05-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by princecharmant1980:

who created you ?

The Great Architect of the Universe.

Whether he is a personified God, or simply a confluence of natural forces, I know this - he isn't the Tyrant God you worship.

So go and pray five times a day. Prostrate five times a day before Mecca. See what it gets you, fool. I'll laugh when you die and go... nowhere.

quote:Originally posted by Jesus:

My parents duh.

and who created them, and so on, and so on. go all the way back to the beginning of the universe.

according to big bang theory, there was all the matter in the whole universe, therefor all gravity was there as well. If there is no God, then for infinite eons before the big bang, it would have to have been in equallibrium. What caused it "bang"??

truckfixr did bring up the other side of the coin when he/she asked "Who created God?". I know this is going to get under a few athiests' skin, BUT, the bible answers that question by stating that God is eternal~ not made.

I find it very interesting that the ancient people who "wrote " the bible, who most modern people dismiss as 'unenlightened', were able to come up with a concept of eternity. When was the numeral zero invented? Concept of eternity but no zero? Amazing!!

quote:Originally posted by Dark_Magneto:

I find the fact that there are millions of lines of independent confirming evidence for evolution, evidence that can't exist in an instant creationism model, very comforting with my current view.

What's better is the fact that there are plenty of things to falsify the view, but none of them have come to light and show no sign of doing so.

Are Peppered Moths one of those evidences?

http://www.origins.org/articles/wells_pepmoth.html

How about the Big Bang? (meaning that if big bang = yes then evolution MUST = yes)

http://www.origins.org/articles/schaefer_bigbangandgod.html

This next link :

http://www.wildersmith.org/library.htm

These clips are quite long, but before listening to him, check out his biography and curriculum for his credentials.

I seem to "remember" that he WAS an athiest.

quote:Originally posted by alchemist:

-jesus was a regular man

-he used the term god to describe spirituality because gods already existed, it was a concept people could wrap their heads around. he had one god to encompass all of humanity.

-his stories are not meant to be taken literally, they are metaphors

-the afterlife he refers to are our children and our childrens children living in peace and prosperity, our seed living on in harmony

why dosent everyone understand this? it seems so obvious when you think about it

and you are saying this with what authority??

first hand knowledge????

from time machine or are you about 2000 years old???

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

The old "How do you know what God wrote when the Bible has been copied and copied" argument......

Short and Simple...God can and has PRESERVED his Book, and if you dont buy this explanation, well ask yourself one thing....IF a God wrote a book, shouldnt I find out what he wrote?

I debate athiest all the time whenever I run into them, in my opinion,the basic reason a person is an Athiest is MOTIVE not because of a lack of proof or intellectual arguments in favor of God. The individual wants to do whatever they want, and have no interest in investigating the Bible/God.

"The only real argument against God is a Bad life" -webster

BRAVO!!!

quote:Originally posted by ararise:

Also, I think there's more merit in an athiest who behaves morally out of the goodness of his/her heart than a religious person who does it out of fear of god and merely to get into heaven.

Ok, let's work backwards here. By religious person, i'm assuming that you mean Christians. Christianity does NOT teach that you get to Heaven by how good you are!

This is what Christianity teaches, in a nutshell:

The way to heaven is by faith in Jesus, that He was both God and man and lived a perfect life, died and went to hell in place of us and then rose from death and ascended to Heaven with the Father.

As for the "fear of God", the word fear means utmost respect and love; reverential awe.

The motivation of Christians moral actions (works), SHOULD BE as a (1)worship and honor to God mostly out of love for Him (2)testimony to other Believers for the purpose of strengthening faith (3) testimony of belief to non-believers.

I'm not saying that this is what happens only the " SHOULD BE". Even some Christians tend to misunderstand this, out of ignorance and/or laziness.

As to the "merit of the athiest", of what eternal value is leading a moral life "out of the goodness of their heart"?? If there is no God then good/evil is just a perspective. Doesn't a thief think that he has the right to someone elses stuff ? The thief thinks its good and the victim thinks its bad.



If there is no God, then "the merit of morality out of the goodness of ones heart" is in vain. Simply a point of view.

quote:Originally posted by alchemist:

-jesus was a regular man

why dosent everyone understand this? it seems so obvious when you think about it

If Jesus was just a regular man:

(1) why did many of the disciples and first followers of Him continue to proclaim that He was the Messiah, even when facing there own persecution (many of them, many years later) when all they had to do was recant.

(2) why didnt the leaders at the time write and proclaim that He did not rise.

It seems to me that only (maybe) a few people who knew , firsthand, Jesus directly, might be willing to martyr for a lie, years even decades later. But most people would change their answer if it had been false or even if they had doubts. These people KNEW what was true and were willing to die for that TRUTH instead of renouncing to save their own skin. Of the 12 disciples (not counting Judas, as he was replaced) and Paul (Saul), i think only one was not martyred.. John, and he died in prison on Patmos.

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

and who created them, and so on, and so on. go all the way back to the beginning of the universe.

according to big bang theory, there was all the matter in the whole universe, therefor all gravity was there as well. If there is no God, then for infinite eons before the big bang, it would have to have been in equallibrium. What caused it "bang"??

truckfixr did bring up the other side of the coin when he/she asked "Who created God?". I know this is going to get under a few athiests' skin, BUT, the bible answers that question by stating that God is eternal~ not made.

I find it very interesting that the ancient people who "wrote " the bible, who most modern people dismiss as 'unenlightened', were able to come up with a concept of eternity. When was the numeral zero invented? Concept of eternity but no zero? Amazing!!

First let me say that I am agnostic,not atheist.I have seen no way to prove or disprove whether or not a god exists.

No one knows with absolute certainty how the universe came to be. If so we would not be having this conversation.The big bang theory is just that, a theory. It is an attempt to explain what we know exists.It may be correct, or not, but it is a plausable explanation based on the laws of physics.

As far as granting the authors of the bible credibility, because they understood the concept of eternity, is rediculous.It is much easier to imagine the continuation of something that exists, than to try to understand the beginning of time.Can you honestly comprehend an end to time? Not an end to life, ..an end to time?Time had to have a starting point,because it obviously exists.But can you honestly understand the concept of the beginning of time?What was there before time?

For something to exist , it must have an origin.Your statement that god is eternal-not created cannot be taken as a valid argument, as it is based on the bible. Like it or not, the bible was written by men. Whether inspired by a god or not, it was written by men.You cannot prove that god wrote the bible using man as his instrument if you cannot prove the existance of god.

Throughout time man has attempted to explain the universe as he sees it.The things or events they could not explain were accredited to a higher power.That does not prove that a higher power exists.



[This message has been edited by truckfixr (edited 06-05-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

As to the "merit of the athiest", of what eternal value is leading a moral life "out of the goodness of their heart"?? If there is no God then good/evil is just a perspective. Doesn't a thief think that he has the right to someone elses stuff ? The thief thinks its good and the victim thinks its bad.



If there is no God, then "the merit of morality out of the goodness of ones heart" is in vain. Simply a point of view.[/B]

Good/evil- right/wrong ARE perspectives.They are perspectives shared by society as a whole. For society to function,the majority of the members must hold like ideals.Anyone who does not follow the laws of the society is punished (People who steal go to jail).

i am an athiest and uh well i do believe in science as for "Total creation" life is life i realy dont see why religuose people have such a hard time beleaving that someone can live with out a "god" but they can believe in "god" its an anigma to me and am i persicuted for bileaving what i do when the "bible" says to love and forgive not to ridicule and damn so as far as this thread is concerned " your a fucking retard "

and too close i would just like to say jesus god damn mother fucking christ drop the subject.

quote:Originally posted by truckfixr:

Answer this: Who created god?

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0017/0017_01.asp

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

Ok, let's work backwards here. By religious person, i'm assuming that you mean Christians. Christianity does NOT teach that you get to Heaven by how good you are!

This is what Christianity teaches, in a nutshell:

The way to heaven is by faith in Jesus, that He was both God and man and lived a perfect life, died and went to hell in place of us and then rose from death and ascended to Heaven with the Father.

As for the "fear of God", the word fear means utmost respect and love; reverential awe.

The motivation of Christians moral actions (works), SHOULD BE as a (1)worship and honor to God mostly out of love for Him (2)testimony to other Believers for the purpose of strengthening faith (3) testimony of belief to non-believers.

I'm not saying that this is what happens only the " SHOULD BE". Even some Christians tend to misunderstand this, out of ignorance and/or laziness.

As to the "merit of the athiest", of what eternal value is leading a moral life "out of the goodness of their heart"?? If there is no God then good/evil is just a perspective. Doesn't a thief think that he has the right to someone elses stuff ? The thief thinks its good and the victim thinks its bad.



If there is no God, then "the merit of morality out of the goodness of ones heart" is in vain. Simply a point of view.

if the way to heaven is belief in jesus, then why are 'works' necessary? i mean, if heaven is the penultimate goal, why focus on anything else? just spend all of your time sitting in a chair believing that jesus is god, not sleeping or eating, and you'll be in heaven soon enough there, chum. isn't that the point? who cares about anything else??? seriously, isn't caring about anything else, an offense to god? after all, it would be done in vain.

you ask 'of what eternal value is leading a moral life out of the goodness of their heart?' exactly. there is no eternal value. it is just a perspective. the difference is, it is understood as such.

so the value of moral action is immediate and temporary. that is why the atheist's moral code is often more practical, more resolute, more efficient, more flexible, more honest, more successful, and MORE SPIRITUAL, than any dogmatic code. the atheist understands clearly that the only true eternal constant is change; that it is change in this present moment that creates the intricate patterns termed life - both familiar and new - that so mystify our philosophical/spiritual senses.

did you miss the metaphorical relevance of the death and resurrection of christ? existence is a constant process of change from the alpha state to the omega state, life to death to life to death. the only certainty is that things are completely different right now than they are right now. CHANGE.

...actually, m.i.t. scientists even have that under scrutiny.

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

If Jesus was just a regular man:

(1) why did many of the disciples and first followers of Him continue to proclaim that He was the Messiah, even when facing there own persecution (many of them, many years later) when all they had to do was recant.

(2) why didnt the leaders at the time write and proclaim that He did not rise.

It seems to me that only (maybe) a few people who knew , firsthand, Jesus directly, might be willing to martyr for a lie, years even decades later. But most people would change their answer if it had been false or even if they had doubts. These people KNEW what was true and were willing to die for that TRUTH instead of renouncing to save their own skin. Of the 12 disciples (not counting Judas, as he was replaced) and Paul (Saul), i think only one was not martyred.. John, and he died in prison on Patmos.

BECAUSE, you genius, if they even existed, they were fanatics.

have you forgotten 9/11? does the martyrdom of the hijackers prove that allah is the real god?

there have been martyrs throughout history for many different gods and causes.

the reason no one opposed the story of his resurrection is because jerusalem at the time was a very complex place, full of many different peoples, languages, religious sects, and cults. the incident was not taken as out of the ordinary, or all that significant.

in fact, jesus was not the only man claiming to be the messiah that was crucified - there were many others. and the 'historical' account of his crucifiction is anything but. i find it particularly interesting that the name of the person standing beside him when pontius pilate sealed his fate (heh), was Barabbas -which translates to 'son of the father'. the details are all fucked up because it NEVER REALLY HAPPENED AS TOLD.

more likely, christianity sprung from the cultural phenomenon of an intermixing between ideas from worshippers of mithras with those of the jewish faith and their messianic narrative.

oh god 45 answers for one question i even didn't comment one of them anyway good bye infidels i'll have to return to work my holliday ended and i will not have enough time to post daily.

quote:Originally posted by truckfixr:



As far as granting the authors of the bible credibility, because they understood the concept of eternity, is rediculous.It is much easier to imagine the continuation of something that exists, than to try to understand the beginning of time.



Last night i conducted a very small "survey", after reading your reply. My step-daughter--11 (Amanda), her friend--13 (Samantha), and her friend's brother--10 (DJ). DJ was 1st. "DJ, do you believe in God".

"I dunno" he said while shrugging shoulders.

"Which do you think happened, time always was and always will be? Or time had a start and might have an end?"

Again he replied with shrugging shoulders, " I dunno, could you start the go-cart? It konked out again."

The girls came in to watch a movie and i asked them the same thing. They both said that it had to have a start.

dont get me wrong, i know this is not a scientic study. but it does lead one to believe, since what we observe in life, beginings and endings, eternity might be the more difficult concept. Although, both are tough-eez.

quote:Can you honestly comprehend an end to time? Not an end to life, ..an end to time?Time had to have a starting point,because it obviously exists.But can you honestly understand the concept of the beginning of time?What was there before time?



Please excuse my ignorance, but isnt that the opposite of what you said? I think you said that it was easier to comprehend something existing, as always existing. Why does time have to have a starting point, if as you say "if it exists, its easier to think of it as always existing"? Which is to say that eternal, goes both ways on the number line.

Both concepts are difficult. Which is i find it amazing that they wrote this.

Think about it, a universe created out of nothing, by God who exists before anything was here.

quote:Originally posted by truckfixr:

Anyone who does not follow the laws of the society is punished (People who steal go to jail).

Three RHETORICAL questions:

Have you EVER stole ANYTHING?

That you were NEVER punished in ANY way, by people (other than your own conscience)?

If yes, did you justify your actions to yourself?

Remember, RHETORICAL!! Please dont incriminate yourself.

As for myself, the answer is yes to all three. (back when i used to drink. i was invisible back then.)

quote:Originally posted by Eil:

if the way to heaven is belief in jesus, then why are 'works' necessary? i mean, if heaven is the penultimate goal, why focus on anything else? just spend all of your time sitting in a chair believing that jesus is god, not sleeping or eating, and you'll be in heaven soon enough there, chum. isn't that the point?

Works are (or rather, should be) "an overflow of the cup", a " 'symptom' of your love and faith", if you will.

Refer to my post-- the motivation part.

And no, the point is not "that we sit in a chair.." The point is that God doesnt want any to perish. If we sit in a chair and focus, then we are not spreading the good news, which may mean that someone else may not get saved, because they didnt have a chance to hear the Word.

you ask 'of what eternal value is leading a moral life out of the goodness of their heart?' exactly. there is no eternal value. it is just a perspective. the difference is, it is understood as such.

quote:so the value of moral action is immediate and temporary. that is why the atheist's moral code is often more practical, more resolute, more efficient, more flexible, more honest, more successful, and MORE SPIRITUAL, than any dogmatic code.

How could you use "spiritual" in this concept and yet be an atheist?

quote:

did you miss the metaphorical relevance of the death and resurrection of christ? existence is a constant process of change from the alpha state to the omega state, life to death to life to death. the only certainty is that things are completely different right now than they are right now. CHANGE.

...actually, m.i.t. scientists even have that under scrutiny.

How do you know that it is ONLY "metaphorical"?

quote:Originally posted by Eil:

BECAUSE, you genius, if they even existed, they were fanatics.

have you forgotten 9/11? does the martyrdom of the hijackers prove that allah is the real god?

there have been martyrs throughout history for many different gods and causes.

The difference here is that, these martyrs had first had knowledge of Jesus. The terrorrists are not saying that they have met Allah or Mohammad.

quote:

in fact, jesus was not the only man claiming to be the messiah that was crucified - there were many others. and the 'historical' account of his crucifiction is anything but.



Im not calling you a liar, in my ignorance i just have not heard of any others crucified people claiming to be Messiah with historical account.

[Please excuse my ignorance, but isnt that the opposite of what you said? I think you said that it was easier to comprehend something existing, as always existing. Why does time have to have a starting point, if as you say "if it exists, its easier to think of it as always existing"? Which is to say that eternal, goes both ways on the number line.



I probably didn't explain myself very well in my previous post.But your response confirms what I was trying to get across.

You give credibility the authors of the bible because they understood the concept of eternity.Eternity is easy to comprehend and is a natural thought process.It's a lot harder to comprehend an actual beginning or an end to time.

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

<snippage>

I'm not saying that this is what happens only the " SHOULD BE". Even some Christians tend to misunderstand this, out of ignorance and/or laziness.



Who upped and gave you the authority to say that your personal interpretation of the Christian religion is the right one? Rather than critizing unbelievers, shouldn't you first look to your own who bastardize yout beliefs? If we're going to argue based on personal interpretations, i.e. opinions, then atheistic opinions, or point of views are as valid.

quote:

As to the "merit of the athiest", of what eternal value is leading a moral life "out of the goodness of their heart"?? If there is no God then good/evil is just a perspective. Doesn't a thief think that he has the right to someone elses stuff ? The thief thinks its good and the victim thinks its bad.



If there is no God, then "the merit of morality out of the goodness of ones heart" is in vain. Simply a point of view.[/B]

Similarly, if Christians have differing opinions on the interpretation of God,the Bible and right/wrong, then pious/unpious is just a perspective. Gay Christians think it's good, and the conservatives think it's bad.

If there is no God, the merit of morality lies in empathy. Empathy isn't a spiritual/emotional/physical trait that has been defined, since there are people with about as much empathy as a rock, and there are dogs that will whine and lick your tears when you are crying. Dogs don't cry. It's arguable whether they have souls and/or the mental capacity to recognize grief in things that aren't other dogs. But you do find some dogs who will seem to empathize with you when you cry.

I don't tell religious people that they're wrong because I don't want to be told I'm wrong. I don't steal because I don't want to be stolen from. Just because I'm having a bad day/life, doesn't mean I have to unload it on the next person, because if I don't like it, what makes you think they will? I don't need God to tell me that. I figured it out on my own, so I'm not obligated to run back to a figurative 'Daddy' and credit it all to him.

it doesnt fuckin matter... you know nothing before life... you dont remember being born, you are just told... the first human could not know how he was created... though a really gullible human would be told "this old guy with a huge ass beard just decided to create you one day" and believe it...

i will tell you this... there was not some all powerful being that somehow existed before "existance" and just pulled all the animals out of his ass one day and set them on a mud ball, then pissed on it, laid out some miracle grow and turned on a lamp...

we have seen species come and go... evolve then become obsolete... why do we think we are so special...

christians just cant handle reality... they cant find their own answers and their brains are too small to process it even if the truth is right in front of them... the funny thing is that they even think they are right...

i think religious people display the weakness of the human mind in a painfully pathetic way...

im actually proud to be hated by religious people... they hate human nature... they hate the truth... i enjoy being assured that i am of the better half of humanity... flame on

now back on topic... i personally dont think there is anything to be learned when pondering life and death... you dont know life until you live and you dont know death until you die--- and at the beginning and the end, there is no thinking to be done...

you have to find your own answers in life and seek undefiled truth while you are alive and breathing... fear of death or change will only slow you down..

religion is lies... religion was created, written, and subsidized by humans...

and there is no god... its just comforting to some people to believe so... it would be convient to have someone who created you, and watches over you, and keeps you out of trouble when your a good boy, and fixes all your problems on command, and will assure that when you die there will be a big happy party waiting for you... but there is no such being...

i have some questions for christians...

did god ever sit you down and fill you in on your destiny or did you get your answers from a book written by weak-minded humans?...

when good things happen do you give god credit?

when bad things happen do you believe god is giving us a spanking?

if god can prevent evil, but he is not able, then why do you call him omnipotent?

wheres your all powerful father now?

if god is able to prevent evil, but not willing, then shouldnt he be called malevolent?

does he just go "now that blows, doesnt it" when millions of people murder eachother in his name?

if he is both able and willing to prevent evil, then why is there evil?

if you somehow still believe he is there, he must just be sittin around masturbating...

do you think that he doesnt right the wrongs and allows evil to flourish because he has a plan for us all (or that he is just not fucking real)?

he is obviously not able or willing, so why do you call him god?

THERE IS NO FUCKING GOD YOU IGNORANT MORONS

get a fucking clue and stop being so gullible... just because theres a book and a bunch of people who believe it, doesnt mean its real... just because we dont understand creation doesnt mean there was some human-like father figure who created us all to fit into his master plan of love and happiness (really its more like he's picking favorites)("good boys dont touch themselves! thats it, you're goin to hell and i dont wanna hear any whining! dont you lie to me, i saw you wang in hand! just for that, your parents are gonna die and im gonna laugh and laugh! now go burn for all eternity and think about what you did and boy if i hear a peep im gonna come in there and belt your ass! couldnt you just be more like your pussy ass goodie goodie brothers and sisters! this is what you get when you dont let me control you like a puppet! if you ever want to go back to heaven, you better start kissin ass!")...

all i want christians to do is seriously consider their believes... if you really look at it you should be laughin your ass off at how stupid that whole GOD thing was... then stop being slutty little conformists and find the truth...

*cough cough* "beliefs"... not "believes"

quote:Originally posted by Eos:

it doesnt fuckin matter... you know nothing before life... you dont remember being born, you are just told... the first human could not know how he was created... though a really gullible human would be told "this old guy with a huge ass beard just decided to create you one day" and believe it...

i will tell you this... there was not some all powerful being that somehow existed before "existance" and just pulled all the animals out of his ass one day and set them on a mud ball, then pissed on it, laid out some miracle grow and turned on a lamp...

we have seen species come and go... evolve then become obsolete... why do we think we are so special...

christians just cant handle reality... they cant find their own answers and their brains are too small to process it even if the truth is right in front of them... the funny thing is that they even think they are right...

i think religious people display the weakness of the human mind in a painfully pathetic way...

im actually proud to be hated by religious people... they hate human nature... they hate the truth... i enjoy being assured that i am of the better half of humanity... flame on

now back on topic... i personally dont think there is anything to be learned when pondering life and death... you dont know life until you live and you dont know death until you die--- and at the beginning and the end, there is no thinking to be done...

you have to find your own answers in life and seek undefiled truth while you are alive and breathing... fear of death or change will only slow you down..

religion is lies... religion was created, written, and subsidized by humans...

and there is no god... its just comforting to some people to believe so... it would be convient to have someone who created you, and watches over you, and keeps you out of trouble when your a good boy, and fixes all your problems on command, and will assure that when you die there will be a big happy party waiting for you... but there is no such being...

i have some questions for christians...

did god ever sit you down and fill you in on your destiny or did you get your answers from a book written by weak-minded humans?...

when good things happen do you give god credit?

when bad things happen do you believe god is giving us a spanking?

if god can prevent evil, but he is not able, then why do you call him omnipotent?

wheres your all powerful father now?

if god is able to prevent evil, but not willing, then shouldnt he be called malevolent?

does he just go "now that blows, doesnt it" when millions of people murder eachother in his name?

if he is both able and willing to prevent evil, then why is there evil?

if you somehow still believe he is there, he must just be sittin around masturbating...

do you think that he doesnt right the wrongs and allows evil to flourish because he has a plan for us all (or that he is just not fucking real)?

he is obviously not able or willing, so why do you call him god?

THERE IS NO FUCKING GOD YOU IGNORANT MORONS

get a fucking clue and stop being so gullible... just because theres a book and a bunch of people who believe it, doesnt mean its real... just because we dont understand creation doesnt mean there was some human-like father figure who created us all to fit into his master plan of love and happiness (really its more like he's picking favorites)("good boys dont touch themselves! thats it, you're goin to hell and i dont wanna hear any whining! dont you lie to me, i saw you wang in hand! just for that, your parents are gonna die and im gonna laugh and laugh! now go burn for all eternity and think about what you did and boy if i hear a peep im gonna come in there and belt your ass! couldnt you just be more like your pussy ass goodie goodie brothers and sisters! this is what you get when you dont let me control you like a puppet! if you ever want to go back to heaven, you better start kissin ass!")...

all i want christians to do is seriously consider their believes... if you really look at it you should be laughin your ass off at how stupid that whole GOD thing was... then stop being slutty little conformists and find the truth...



because im gulible and have obviously never given any thought to any of your "answers", i will just slide on over to your side...

oops, thats a lie.

ok.. you win... by attrition

quote:Originally posted by Eos:

it doesnt fuckin matter... you know nothing before life... you dont remember being born, you are just told... the first human could not know how he was created... though a really gullible human would be told "this old guy with a huge ass beard just decided to create you one day" and believe it...

i will tell you this... there was not some all powerful being that somehow existed before "existance" and just pulled all the animals out of his ass one day and set them on a mud ball, then pissed on it, laid out some miracle grow and turned on a lamp...

we have seen species come and go... evolve then become obsolete... why do we think we are so special...

christians just cant handle reality... they cant find their own answers and their brains are too small to process it even if the truth is right in front of them... the funny thing is that they even think they are right...

i think religious people display the weakness of the human mind in a painfully pathetic way...

im actually proud to be hated by religious people... they hate human nature... they hate the truth... i enjoy being assured that i am of the better half of humanity... flame on

now back on topic... i personally dont think there is anything to be learned when pondering life and death... you dont know life until you live and you dont know death until you die--- and at the beginning and the end, there is no thinking to be done...

you have to find your own answers in life and seek undefiled truth while you are alive and breathing... fear of death or change will only slow you down..

religion is lies... religion was created, written, and subsidized by humans...

and there is no god... its just comforting to some people to believe so... it would be convient to have someone who created you, and watches over you, and keeps you out of trouble when your a good boy, and fixes all your problems on command, and will assure that when you die there will be a big happy party waiting for you... but there is no such being...

i have some questions for christians...

did god ever sit you down and fill you in on your destiny or did you get your answers from a book written by weak-minded humans?...

when good things happen do you give god credit?

when bad things happen do you believe god is giving us a spanking?

if god can prevent evil, but he is not able, then why do you call him omnipotent?

wheres your all powerful father now?

if god is able to prevent evil, but not willing, then shouldnt he be called malevolent?

does he just go "now that blows, doesnt it" when millions of people murder eachother in his name?

if he is both able and willing to prevent evil, then why is there evil?

if you somehow still believe he is there, he must just be sittin around masturbating...

do you think that he doesnt right the wrongs and allows evil to flourish because he has a plan for us all (or that he is just not fucking real)?

he is obviously not able or willing, so why do you call him god?

THERE IS NO FUCKING GOD YOU IGNORANT MORONS

get a fucking clue and stop being so gullible... just because theres a book and a bunch of people who believe it, doesnt mean its real... just because we dont understand creation doesnt mean there was some human-like father figure who created us all to fit into his master plan of love and happiness (really its more like he's picking favorites)("good boys dont touch themselves! thats it, you're goin to hell and i dont wanna hear any whining! dont you lie to me, i saw you wang in hand! just for that, your parents are gonna die and im gonna laugh and laugh! now go burn for all eternity and think about what you did and boy if i hear a peep im gonna come in there and belt your ass! couldnt you just be more like your pussy ass goodie goodie brothers and sisters! this is what you get when you dont let me control you like a puppet! if you ever want to go back to heaven, you better start kissin ass!")...

all i want christians to do is seriously consider their believes... if you really look at it you should be laughin your ass off at how stupid that whole GOD thing was... then stop being slutty little conformists and find the truth...

Ho hum......

More Cheapshots..... Do you think this guy ever cracked open a Bible and see if God has ansered these.... No.... Lazy.

I would just like to say a few things. First of all the big bang is a theory, not a fact. Second the big bang wasn't necessarily the beginning, its just the farthest we can trace are universe back to (at the moment anyway). Its not how I came to being but how my ancestor came into being (that single celled creature that started life on this planet) that you want to know. The universe is huge, so huge that I have trouble getting my mind around how big it is. In this universe there is so much matter being arranged into different complex molecules is it really surpriseing that on one planet the right circumstances came about to create a small organism that reproduced itself?

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

Works are (or rather, should be) "an overflow of the cup", a " 'symptom' of your love and faith", if you will.

Refer to my post-- the motivation part.

And no, the point is not "that we sit in a chair.." The point is that God doesnt want any to perish. If we sit in a chair and focus, then we are not spreading the good news, which may mean that someone else may not get saved, because they didnt have a chance to hear the Word.

you ask 'of what eternal value is leading a moral life out of the goodness of their heart?' exactly. there is no eternal value. it is just a perspective. the difference is, it is understood as such.

How could you use "spiritual" in this concept and yet be an atheist?

How do you know that it is ONLY "metaphorical"?



as to the 'point' about works are blah, blah, blah.... you still haven't answered my question. if the only thing that matters for entry into heaven is to believe that jesus christ is the savior of us weakling sinners, then why not just sit like a vegetable and believe this until you die of starvation, so that the gates will swing open already? i mean, heaven is the ONLY point to existence, since the alternative is hell. no works, no patting the poor atheist fools on the back and spreading the gay news, no cup overflowing crap.... all that matters is that pie in the sky, so why risk being distracted with anything else????????????????

as for me being an atheist... i'm not. you assume too much. i never said i was an atheist. even still, the concept of spirituality can be used by atheists, and probably more accurately, since it IS just a concept, and they understand that.... unlike you superstitious little monkeys that run around thinking spirituality is something you do for someone else because HE demands it; and not because it's just good common sense for your own health and enjoyment.

finally, whether or not the crucifiction happened in actuality is completely, utterly, totally, entirely, um, whole-ly, errr... altogether irrelevent. the metaphorical aspect of it is all that matters.

to simultaneously believe that jesus was the perfection of god, and that the important point of the crucifiction is that it really literally happened, is to believe that we should each strive to be nailed to a cross. sorry, that's how it is. think about it.

dogma is self-defeating. the core of all religion is the perennial philosophy; that idea that is the spark of all divine inspiration, ecstasy, and bliss - freedom is heaven.

quote:Originally posted by brucejunior:

well when to people love each other very much...

you used the wrong two* in your sentence.

quote:Originally posted by truckfixr:

Answer this: Who created god?



That's easy, I did.

quote:Originally posted by alchemist:

-jesus was a regular man

-he used the term god to describe spirituality because gods already existed, it was a concept people could wrap their heads around. he had one god to encompass all of humanity.

-his stories are not meant to be taken literally, they are metaphors

-the afterlife he refers to are our children and our childrens children living in peace and prosperity, our seed living on in harmony

why dosent everyone understand this? it seems so obvious when you think about it

I agree. Why does everyone have to be all like why don't you belive in God? At least once I would like for someone to ask why I don't belive in Krishna.

This question is idiodic. My parents created me, religious or not you cannot debate that. My dad knocked up my mom, and his sperm fertilized her egg, and thus I was created. Since I am fairly sure that I am not the next jesus, I see no other way of my being "created." The only way this question could be taken on any serious grounds is if you look at it as not my body being created, but my mind, my soul if you will. Since every person is going to look at that from a different religious perspective, this thread becomes nothing more then a pointless squabbling over which relgion, or lack of religion, each person believes and thinks everybody else should believe.