I'm asking this from a christian perspective: What the fuck is up with this hell thing. Inspired by an Onion article that's titled something like Youth Minister Breaks Out 'Hell Is Not Disneyland Speech', I got to thinking, if I was the devil I'd make hell exactly like Disneyland. I don't get the whole eternally roasting souls thing. Doesn't the devil like sinners? I'd want all the sinners to like me for when we battle God and the angels.

My mom said that the eternal torment was a metaphor for being w/o God's love. That's bullshit. Being without God's love didn't bother them that much when they were on earth.

Ya know, you should read up some more on the other problems with Christianity, I mean, the whole deal with Jesus dieing for your sins...or the chapter of Revelations...Wow, the Bible sounds like what someone at Totse would write

quote:Originally posted by moneyandatv:



My mom said that the eternal torment was a metaphor for being w/o God's love. That's bullshit. Being without God's love didn't bother them that much when they were on earth.

Well, according to christianity, God loves everyone on earth unconditionally.



[This message has been edited by KikoSanchez (edited 06-10-2004).]

i hae a good view on the hell thing. Actually its not my view, is the view of novelist Anne Rice, (see the book 'The demon Memnoch@ for more info)

Basically hell, according to her, is a place where people learn about the sins they have commited and try to understand why they should not have done them, then after you understand about your sins, the pain they caused and everything, then you are supposed to be allowed into heaven. There is no torture or 'fire and brimstone' shit in hell, its just you looking at your life with a demon of some sort trying to teach you the error of your ways.

Personally i like this view better, coz it means that there is light for all of us, no matte who you are.

Here's a question for you:

If Satan is God's enemy, then why does he get control of torturing the souls?

Answer is, he doesn't. The bible only ever gives him the title 'Prince of Earth' (although I don't have the reference with me at the moment).

In fact, the whole lake of fire thing is Satan's punishment at the end of time (after his 1000 years of imprisonment and the quick rampage after).

In actual fact, the only human 'bad' afterlife mentioned in the bible is 'sheol', the greek equivalent word being 'hades', and translates to 'the grave'.

The descriptions are sparse, but basically, it's described as 'seperated from God' and filled with 'weeping and gnashing of teeth'.

quote:Originally posted by mongolia_d:

i hae a good view on the hell thing. Actually its not my view, is the view of novelist Anne Rice, (see the book 'The demon Memnoch@ for more info)

Basically hell, according to her, is a place where people learn about the sins they have commited and try to understand why they should not have done them, then after you understand about your sins, the pain they caused and everything, then you are supposed to be allowed into heaven. There is no torture or 'fire and brimstone' shit in hell, its just you looking at your life with a demon of some sort trying to teach you the error of your ways.

Personally i like this view better, coz it means that there is light for all of us, no matter who you are.

There's a name for this view.

Judaism.

(except for the demon)

quote:Originally posted by VampireSlaya:

Here's a question for you:

If Satan is God's enemy, then why does he get control of torturing the souls?

Answer is, he doesn't. The bible only ever gives him the title 'Prince of Earth' (although I don't have the reference with me at the moment).

In fact, the whole lake of fire thing is Satan's punishment at the end of time (after his 1000 years of imprisonment and the quick rampage after).

In actual fact, the only human 'bad' afterlife mentioned in the bible is 'sheol', the greek equivalent word being 'hades', and translates to 'the grave'.

The descriptions are sparse, but basically, it's described as 'seperated from God' and filled with 'weeping and gnashing of teeth'.

Good post.

Hell is a teaching added to the Christian religions, it isnt a Bible teaching.

The bible just says "the living are conscious that they will die, but the dead are conscious of nothing at all"

so they cant feel pain, or fire, or satan anally probing them or anything. Hell doesnt exist

can I screw ur mom?

quote:Originally posted by VampireSlaya:

Here's a question for you:

If Satan is God's enemy, then why does he get control of torturing the souls?

Answer is, he doesn't. The bible only ever gives him the title 'Prince of Earth' (although I don't have the reference with me at the moment).

In fact, the whole lake of fire thing is Satan's punishment at the end of time (after his 1000 years of imprisonment and the quick rampage after).

In actual fact, the only human 'bad' afterlife mentioned in the bible is 'sheol', the greek equivalent word being 'hades', and translates to 'the grave'.

The descriptions are sparse, but basically, it's described as 'seperated from God' and filled with 'weeping and gnashing of teeth'.

Very true. I read through the middle of the book of revelations that even the dead will rise from the grave to be judged accordingly. I took that to mean that at this moment no one is going to either heaven or hell. Right now the dead are trully dead and won't be coming back until the end. To me that explains why we instinctively want to be near the grave of a someone we loved or go visiting on their birthday, etc. Logically we know that they are not there anymore, but spiritually it's like they are.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't God supposed to make earth paradise again in the end? I'm not sure of it from the Judaic point of view, but I know that in Revelations God descends from the heavens and brings New Jerusalem with him. John even describes the city in detail. Would that then mean that while people are dying now, they are not going to heaven or hell, but are waiting for God to judge whether they are allowed to enter New Jerusalem or not? I know, way off topic, but have any of you ever wondered?

quote:Originally posted by BBN:

can I screw ur mom?

She's 5'3", about 250 lbs, white as paper, and has these blotchy things on her skin. Also, her hair's silver and she's in her late 50s. Feel free if that's your thing.

quote:Originally posted by moneyandatv:

I'm asking this from a christian perspective: What the fuck is up with this hell thing. Inspired by an Onion article that's titled something like Youth Minister Breaks Out 'Hell Is Not Disneyland Speech', I got to thinking, if I was the devil I'd make hell exactly like Disneyland. I don't get the whole eternally roasting souls thing. Doesn't the devil like sinners? I'd want all the sinners to like me for when we battle God and the angels.

My mom said that the eternal torment was a metaphor for being w/o God's love. That's bullshit. Being without God's love didn't bother them that much when they were on earth.

The devil can't "battle God and the angels." You can't think of the devil and God as equals in power, one being the "good guy" and the other being the "bad guy."

God has turned his back on this world, and gave it to Satan. Hence the "Prince of Earth" reference someone else made. We are ruled by sin every day, whether we realize it or not, depending how big the "sins" are. The days of the Garden Of Eden where God watches over us and doesn't let bad things happen are long long gone of course.

The Anne Rice description of hell sounds more like Purgatory, which I personally think is just Catholic bullshit. But, it's interesting to note Revelations was almost passed up to be canonized, and instead the final book was going to be The Apocolypse According to St. Peter. And in this book, Peter feels sorry for all the souls in hell that are trapped forever, and talks to Jesus in heaven saying they have suffered enough, and should be forgiven. And then the gates of hell are opened, and everyone is released.

If you think about it, you'll understand why early Christians chose Revelations over The Apocolypse book. The Apocolypse gives people hope that if they sin, one day they will be let out of hell, and into heaven, or the New Jeruseluem, or whatever. But they wanted to scare the people and show that punishment for their sins was harsh and permanent, so Revelations was used instead.

How do we not know that both books, or neither one, or the wrong one, are right or not? All depends how you interpret it I guess.

I need to get my fancy study Bible to look up the passages related to hell, which I can't access now.

quote:Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't God supposed to make earth paradise again in the end?

Yep, right at the end, he remakes heaven and earth.

quote:Originally posted by Pagan_Guru:

Ya know, you should read up some more on the other problems with Christianity, I mean, the whole deal with Jesus dieing for your sins...or the chapter of Revelations...Wow, the Bible sounds like what someone at Totse would write

agreed....best post in this thread, i love you...

Alternatively, whats with this "Heaven" thing?

In order to "know no sin" it seems we give up the one thing that makes us human, that seperates us from the angels.

I only bring this up because it seems as ambiguous as the concept of hell and in some respects more unpleasant.

Hell is a myth created by the priesthood to keep the flock in line.

Also more validation of the axiom "Christianity is a religion of fear and denial."

VampireSlaya, some of your post is definitely right on, and some of it is not necissarily "fact".

First, Satan will HAVE NO DOMINION OVER HELL. The common depiction of Satan as the King of Torment in Hell, is totally untrue. Satan will get the worst of the punishment in hell.

I'm not sure that humans will be punished with the same hell, but there in at least one of the depictions you mention as being "seperate from god" where a human is suffering:



Luke 16:23-26

"And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that [would come] from thence."



So, to say that non-believers will definitely not go to hell, but will simply be seperate from God, is not necissarily untrue, but it's not a Fact either.

It's nice to think that God wouldn't punish us with the same hell that Satan will undergo, but the Bible isn't totally clear on it.

theBishop

Christianity merely twisted what hell was in order to keep people in line. The easiest way to make some one be controlled is to give them something to do (striving for a perfection that they could never reach) will make them all the easier to get into a line so their souls can be eaten.

Satan has dominion over "hell", hell is the name that the xtians gave to satan's domain after he was forced out of niburu(now known as sedna, I believe that's what it is anyway). Hell, or satan's domain is located in orion(ever wondered why the pyramids point there?) and it's a place where the deceased can enjoy all the things they did in life, whereas heaven is a place where jehova, the nazarene, and his angels devour human souls because they are greedy for the energy.

quote:Originally posted by chaoszero:

Christianity merely twisted what hell was in order to keep people in line. The easiest way to make some one be controlled is to give them something to do (striving for a perfection that they could never reach) will make them all the easier to get into a line so their souls can be eaten.

Satan has dominion over "hell", hell is the name that the xtians gave to satan's domain after he was forced out of niburu(now known as sedna, I believe that's what it is anyway). Hell, or satan's domain is located in orion(ever wondered why the pyramids point there?) and it's a place where the deceased can enjoy all the things they did in life, whereas heaven is a place where jehova, the nazarene, and his angels devour human souls because they are greedy for the energy.



Forgot to take your Prozac again, didn't ya?

quote:Originally posted by dizztrezzed:



Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't God supposed to make earth paradise again in the end? I'm not sure of it from the Judaic point of view, but I know that in Revelations God descends from the heavens and brings New Jerusalem with him. John even describes the city in detail. Would that then mean that while people are dying now, they are not going to heaven or hell, but are waiting for God to judge whether they are allowed to enter New Jerusalem or not? I know, way off topic, but have any of you ever wondered?

yes it sayz that after the 7 years of the tribulation jesus will set up his kingdom on earth, until the white throne judgement where all the sinners are judged and sent into the lake or fire, then the new jurusalem will be set up on earth and rein for 100 years until god destroys heaven and earth and creates an even better heaven in its place...or sumthing like that

quote:Originally posted by moneyandatv:

I'm asking this from a christian perspective: What the fuck is up with this hell thing. Inspired by an Onion article that's titled something like Youth Minister Breaks Out 'Hell Is Not Disneyland Speech', I got to thinking, if I was the devil I'd make hell exactly like Disneyland. I don't get the whole eternally roasting souls thing. Doesn't the devil like sinners? I'd want all the sinners to like me for when we battle God and the angels.

My mom said that the eternal torment was a metaphor for being w/o God's love. That's bullshit. Being without God's love didn't bother them that much when they were on earth.

What your mother said about being separated from God for eternity is exactly correct. The reason that it more profoundly affects those in hell as opposed to here on earth is because there is a small amount of self-sufficiency that we have, which we will not have in Hell. The example for this is the statement Jesus makes about it being easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to find himself in Heaven. As long as man resides under the misconception that he can survive and succeed in this life, and do it alone, he will look to no one else for help.

Now, I am sure that everyone's perception of "success" and "survival" are different...but entertain the fact that merely making it to a ripe old age is NOT succeeding, nor is it surviving. The body will still die, and even if you live 80 years, in the grand scheme of things, that's not a very long time at all.

However, how many of those people are truly happy ? Not only do they go through their short lives alone, and void of a spiritual support, but then they find themselves eternally alone after physical death. To find yourself without God, family, or friends...THAT would be a kind of hell that no one could imagine.

Imagine solitary confinement...no light, no sustinence, no contact, for the rest of eternity (if you can imagine time in such a context). It is virtually impossible to fathom something of this magnitude, as it will never be attainable to us while we are in our physical bodies here on earth.

Satan did not design hell, God did...and for those of you that abhorr the idea of an omnipotent being that could designate such a place for those that oppose him, consider the fact that it was not God's decision...it was Satan's. God simply made a home for him.

Most people blame God for hell, and curse him for creating such a place, and then making it seemingly unattainable, however He says very plainly that the path is narrow, and not easy to follow, though it is much easier to find. He does not make Himself a mystery to those that seek Him truthfully.

Satan doesn't give a damn about you, folks. I hate to tell ya, but he is not accepting applications for his country club. He needs company for the rest of eternity, and he is desperately trying to prove that God was wrong in His assumption that even with free will, humans will choose to follow Him, instead of their own flesh (and consequently Satan.)

Satan hates God's creation, because even from the beginning He was "well pleased" with us. The angels were created simply to worship and serve God, without choice...whereas we were given free will. You can imagine what an insult this may have been to them, and why some decided to revolt.

When this occured, God gave them what they wanted...a place away from Him, and freedom to do as they wished here on earth.

This is where sin comes in, and sin is the cause for our one way tickets to Hell...but if God was not a loving God, would He not refuse us the option to stand by His side for the rest of eternity ? We DO have that option, as well as the sanctity and peace of a spiritual relationship with Him while we endure the trials and tribulations set forth for us here on earth.

I probably just went off on a tangent that was completely unrelated to what you asked, but feel free to email me if you want to discuss this further. I don't claim to have all the answers, but I can sure try to find them for you.

if angels were created by god to simply worship him without choice then why the hell can lucifer and his angels rebel against god? huh??? err??

satan doesn't hate us humans... didn't you watch "The Prophecy 1,2, and 3!"

everything is a god damn sin. writing this is a sin you being on the computer is a sin everythings a sin.

also doesn't it say that god made satan really really god damn smart as fuck!? if so then he knew god was doing something wrong right? satan wouldn't revolt just to revolt and be sent to hell for eternity if he was really smart like it says then he has something planned out like to be a god

go satan!

is doing drugs a sin ? i dont wanna die because i cant help my drug addiciton, i dont wanna die because me and my girlfriend HAD to kill our 3 week old unborn baby. . . . i dont wanna goto hell

Sin isn't permanent, unless you never want forgivness... that's the Christian answer 4DrUg4dDdiTi0N.

quote:Originally posted by nevermind:

Hell is a teaching added to the Christian religions, it isnt a Bible teaching.

Thank heavens!!!!

That is the very thing I've been trying to stress to everyone. The original bible has no mention of such place as does the Christian(KJ) vers.

In the real bible everyone roams sheol before they find their way to God/heaven. Or until they're excepted into heaven.



[This message has been edited by Metalligod (edited 06-17-2004).]

Another thing about Christianity: If Jesus absorbed all of humanity's sins and whatnot, shouldn't he have absorbed Adam and Eve's sin of eating the apple, so that women should no longer have to go through childbirth and men no longer have to wrok for a living?

quote:Originally posted by chaoszero:

Christianity merely twisted what hell was in order to keep people in line. The easiest way to make some one be controlled is to give them something to do (striving for a perfection that they could never reach) will make them all the easier to get into a line so their souls can be eaten.

Satan has dominion over "hell", hell is the name that the xtians gave to satan's domain after he was forced out of niburu(now known as sedna, I believe that's what it is anyway). Hell, or satan's domain is located in orion(ever wondered why the pyramids point there?) and it's a place where the deceased can enjoy all the things they did in life, whereas heaven is a place where jehova, the nazarene, and his angels devour human souls because they are greedy for the energy.

Are you a Satanist?

Rising costs of Hell could force inmates out on the streets (http://users.rcn.com/rostmd/winace/press_releases/hell_budget_crisis/)

hehe chaoszero does sound like a fellow satanist http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

Is there an actual place called Hell ? http://christiananswers.net/q-grace/hell.html

Why was Hell made ? http://christiananswers.net/q-grace/hell-origin.html

Will there be literal fire burning in Hell ? http://christiananswers.net/q-grace/hell-fire.html

How can a God of love send anyone to hell ? http://christiananswers.net/q-grace/hell-and-god.html

What if you don't believe in Hell ? http://christiananswers.net/q-grace/hell-insurance.html

How do you stay out of Hell ? http://christiananswers.net/q-grace/hell-avoiding.html

Hope this helps.

http://www.angelfire.com/empire/serpentis666/HOME.html

[This message has been edited by Todesgehen (edited 06-19-2004).]