-In the beginning... (who was there to see it?)

-How do we know this god is a HE?

-Who has actually seen him? (besides lone guys at the tops of mountains carving tablets)

-If earth is 6000 years old, then where did all those dinosaur bones come from?

-Do some people actually think that carbon-dating is a lie?

-I read the beginning of the bible and it said that adam was 900 when he died, wtf!?

-Then, if you look at the rate of human reproduction it would be impossible to get from 2 to 6 billion in 6000 years (this is also assuming that every child survived.) Let alone create a population of thousands within 6 generations along with various other civilizations: assyrians, persians, egyptians, sudanese, chinese and how can such ethic diversity and so many religions come about?

I mean adam and eve are disbanded from eden. Then they have kids, live 900 years and then 2000 years later their children have moved across continents, oceans, established whole working civilizations with their own religion that is in no way connected to christianity - how do 3000 gods come from 1?

Now here is another conflict. What about other religions that have risen and fallen. What if they were right, but their society perished? How do you know that christianity is not just part of the cycle? New religions are created everyday. The native americans believe something entirely different and have been around longer than the jews.

My point is that the beginning is flawed in everything. Not that I like the "big bang" but the events leading from it make a lot more sense. I like the science theory, it explains more.

Could somebody break this down and explain it bit by bit?

-

Dude, I was just writing you a Response when you erased the WHOLE FRIGGIN THREAD!

Please dont touch anything else, you might wipe out totse.com

quote:Originally posted by Raider101:

-In the beginning... (who was there to see it?)

God was there and he chose to reveal it to Moses. The Bible is a REVELATION (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=revelation&x=168&y=19)....God is not the subject of research but of Revelation. Which means you arent gonna go out and just find him, unless he chooses to reveal himself.God looks at the Heart of a Man, He's not interested in convincing a Skeptic. He is interested in revealing himself to whom he wants.

So, If your motive is to just to put a Christian on the spot, good luck, happy searching. On the other hand if your motive is truthful and honest than I think God can and will reveal himself to you.



quote:-How do we know this god is a HE?

His Gender? He claims He is a He!



quote:-Who has actually seen him? (besides lone guys at the tops of mountains carving tablets)

Everybody else in the Bible except Moses and AAron.

Theres alot of things you and I believe that we havent seen, such as our Brains. I assume you havent seen your brain...ever. I havent, but I know I have one because everybody else does, and plus I can see the effects of Brain...like moving my hands, etc. Seeing is not always believing.

quote:-If earth is 6000 years old, then where did all those dinosaur bones come from?

Noahs flood. Think about...what happens when animal dies, doesnt scavengers eat the carcass and drag off the bones, etc. Why do the find whole intact, fossilized? Because, some Big catastrophe happened , something buried these animals rapidly....Noahs flood.



quote:-Do some people actually think that carbon-dating is a lie?

"A freshly killed seal was carbon dated as having died 1300 years ago"- Antarctic Journal vol.6, Sept-Oct.1971,p.211 (http://drdino.com/QandA/index.jsp?varFolder=CreationEvolution&varPage=CarbonPotassiumargondating.jsp)



quote:-I read the beginning of the bible and it said that adam was 900 when he died, wtf!?

This is a Theory..... Adam was made directly from God. His sons were able to marry his Daughters, their sisters. Try doing that with your brother or sisters now! Man, in my opinion is in a state of degeneration.....Not Evolving!

Heres another reason we are not living that long....

Gen 6:3, "And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years."



-Then, if you look at the rate of human reproduction it would be impossible to get from 2 to 6 billion in 6000 years (this is also assuming that every child survived.) Let alone create a population of thousands within 6 generations along with various other civilizations: assyrians, persians, egyptians, sudanese, chinese and how can such ethic diversity and so many religions come about?

Dude, that aint hard to do! People are like rabbits! Also, it aint hard to create a "God". Whats hard is getting your god to write you a book.

quote:I mean adam and eve are disbanded from eden. Then they have kids, live 900 years and then 2000 years later their children have moved across continents, oceans, established whole working civilizations with their own religion that is in no way connected to christianity - how do 3000 gods come from 1?

Very easily!

quote:Now here is another conflict. What about other religions that have risen and fallen.

In just about every primitive culture youll find that they have a God or Gods or something in that line....I believe God put something in our Hearts to seek out the Divine....Humans are religious by nature. In modern society, they try "Educate" you out of religion....enter Evolution, replacing one religion with another.



quote:What if they were right, but their society perished? How do you know that christianity is not just part of the cycle?

Youre gonna have to explain your question better.

quote:New religions are created everyday. The native americans believe something entirely different and have been around longer than the jews.

Im not sure about Indians being around before jews. Noah was the the father of the races, not adam, Noahs 3 sons spawned all the races of the world. He had the right God!



quote:My point is that the beginning is flawed in everything. Not that I like the "big bang" but the events leading from it make a lot more sense. I like the science theory, it explains more.

Could somebody break this down and explain it bit by bit?



The Big Bang is only a Theory like Evolution! You ought to examine the "Proofs" of Evolution! Heres a good starting point on this subject. LINK (http://drdino.com/QandA/index.jsp?varFolder=CreationEvolution)



[This message has been edited by Sniper Piper (edited 06-15-2004).]

SniperPiper,Young Earth Creationism is based on GROSS misrepresentation of science.The links you post take enough actual science to make it seem authentic,add misleading information (or leave out important facts ), and presents the result as truth. Obviously, they have a vested interest in convincing people of their point of view.The problem is that they have to lie to perpetuate their position.

The site you linked to is full of mistruths.I will point out just one to prove my point.If you want more examples, I will be more than happy to point out obvious misrepresentations of the truth from every argument they put forth on their site.It's really not difficult to see through the B.S. when you know what you are looking for.



From your link,pertaining to the validity of radiocarbon 14 dating:

quote:Similarly, scientists do not know that the carbon-14 decay rate has been constant. They do not know that the amount of carbon-14 in the atmosphere is constant. Present testing shows the amount of C-14 in the atmosphere has been increasing since it was first measured in the 1950's. This may be tied in to the declining strength of the magnetic field.



The amount of carbon 14 in the atmosphere is higher today than it was before the 1950's.The earth's magnetic field had nothing to do with it.Nuclear testing is responsible for the increase in radioactive isotopes in the atmosphere.Scientists do not claim accuracy for samples that died after nuclear testing began.

The amount of carbon 14 in the atmosphere throughout the useful range of the method has been verified through repeatable testing using growth rings from ancient trees, using verifiable benchmarks throughout known history to measure the carbon 14 content .

If you would be interested in a factual,unbiased explanation of carbon 14 dating, go to www.howstuffworks.com (http://www.howstuffworks.com) and read.

WTF!?? I left and there was like 10 posts, I come back and now there are 2!

How did I wipe out the whole thread without taking my post down? I must have done something...crazy man, just crazy...

Can this be explained?

quote:Originally posted by Raider101:

WTF!?? I left and there was like 10 posts, I come back and now there are 2!

How did I wipe out the whole thread without taking my post down? I must have done something...crazy man, just crazy...

Can this be explained?

You posted twice.

shit happens. it's still here

quote:Originally posted by truckfixr:

SniperPiper,Young Earth Creationism is based on GROSS misrepresentation of science.

"The rocks do date the fossils, but the fossils date the rocks more accurately. Stratigraphy cannot avoid this kind of reasoning if it insists on using only temporal concepts, because circularity is inherent in the derivation of time scales."-O'Rourke,J.E,"Pragmatism versus Materialism in Stratigraphy," American Journal of Science,Vol.276(January 1976),p.53

quote:The links you post take enough actual science to make it seem authentic,add misleading information (or leave out important facts ), and presents the result as truth. Obviously, they have a vested interest in convincing people of their point of view.The problem is that they have to lie to perpetuate their position.

Show us some.

quote:The site you linked to is full of mistruths.I will point out just one to prove my point.If you want more examples, I will be more than happy to point out obvious misrepresentations of the truth from every argument they put forth on their site.It's really not difficult to see through the B.S. when you know what you are looking for.

I know the feeling, when I read an Article Promoting your religion.





quote: The amount of carbon 14 in the atmosphere is higher today than it was before the 1950's.

post a link.

I gonna run check out what youve said so far, however, I hardly think you can come up with some Unbiased sources.

"Evolution is a fairy tale for grownups. The theory has helped nothing in the progress of science. It is useless."

Professor Louis Bounoure, Director of the Strasbourg Zoological Museum



[This message has been edited by Sniper Piper (edited 06-15-2004).]

SniperPiper.Here is one such link which explains radiocarbon 14 dating in detail, and yes, it does explain the rise of carbon 14 since the 1950's.

www.c14dating.com/agecalc.html (http://www.c14dating.com/agecalc.html)



--------------

"There has never been any evidence that any kind of plant or animal has ever been able to create itself or produce any other kind of plant or animal. We have seen thousands of changes within the created kinds but that is not evolution. Please don't accuse me of being against science. I am only against the false teaching of evolution as science."

-------------

The above is an exerpt from the link you previously posted.



A large part of the reason why Creationist arguments against evolution can sound so persuasive is because they don't address evolution, but rather argue against a set of misunderstandings that people are right to consider ludicrous. The Creationists wrongly believe that their understanding of evolution is what the theory of evolution really says, and declare evolution banished. In fact, they haven't even addressed the topic of evolution. (The situation isn't helped by poor science education generally. Even most beginning college biology students don't understand the theory of evolution.)

Biologists define evolution as a change in the gene pool of a population over time. One example is insects developing a resistance to pesticides over the period of a few years. Even most Creationists recognize that evolution at this level is a fact. What they don't appreciate is that this rate of evolution is all that is required to produce the diversity of all living things from a common ancestor.

What hasn't been observed is one animal abruptly changing into a radically different one, such as a frog changing into a cow. This is not a problem for evolution because evolution doesn't propose occurrences even remotely like that. In fact, if we ever observed a frog turn into a cow, it would be very strong evidence against evolution



(One should also note that the theory of evolution doesn't depend on how the first life began. The truth or falsity of any theory of abiogenesis wouldn't affect evolution in the least.) www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-intro-to-biology.html (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-intro-to-biology.html) <http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-intro-to-biology.html>

www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html (http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html) <http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html>

__________________________________________________ ______

Here is another quote from your link:

"Morality and ethical standards have been greatly reduced. Children and youth are taught in school that they are an advanced level of animals; there are no moral principles. Since they are just animals, they should do whatever they want. Personal survival and success will come only by rivalry, strife, and stepping on others."

---------------------------------------

This is so skewed that it's idiocy is obvious.



[This message has been edited by truckfixr (edited 06-16-2004).]

quote:A large part of the reason why Creationist arguments against evolution can sound so persuasive is because they don't address evolution,

This is the second time youve mentioned this to me. I get it....ok.

Does everybody when speaking of Evolution refer to it as Changes in a Gene Pool over time?

No, matter of fact, Me and You are probably the only ones on this entire site that know the Scientific Definition. Im arguing about the Bunk taught under the name "Evolution". So, From here on out, Im refering to the Common usage of "Evolution."



quote:Here is another quote from your link:

"Morality and ethical standards have been greatly reduced. Children and youth are taught in school that they are an advanced level of animals; there are no moral principles. Since they are just animals, they should do whatever they want. Personal survival and success will come only by rivalry, strife, and stepping on others.

You may think it idiotic, I dont, I know where he's coming from....Stalin was only killing "Advanced Apes" ... I bet he didnt lose one nights sleep either!

I will run your Link, and thoughtfully consider your Post.

It still doesn't answer my question. Nobody has SEEN god, they just claim to have seen it. People were stupid back then.

It can never be proven. There is nothing you, Jesus, Moses, Noah, David, the Pope or anyone can say that will prove that god exhists. I can walk around all day telling everyone I can do a double backflip, but if I don't do it, nobody will believe me.