Churcies only need reply.

Linky (http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible?passage=1TIM+2&language=english&version=NIV&showfn=on&showxref=on)

Passage:

1 Timothy 2



Instructions on Worship

1I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone-- 2for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men--the testimony given in its proper time. 7And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.

(my bold)

Okey dookie; "For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus".

What exactly is all this hubbub about "churh", "priests", and generaly all "clergy" from a little wanna be "priest", all the way up to the "pope"??

Can't you all just; "Pray to God and ask for it in Jesus´ name and live your life according to his will and he will listen"?

Or do they believe(as you must also) that they were also "appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles." as Paul did?

Are you really that brain dead that you need another person (clergy) to tell you what to do? To lead your religious life for you? Instruct you how to pray? How to worship? How to honour your "god"?

Do you believe in your "god"?

Do you believe he created you and wants you to worship him?

Do you believe that your "bible" is the written word of your "god"?

Do you have even a smidgeon of thought that, maybe, just maybe, if your "god" wanted you to worship him he just might have left some instructions how to do so?

Where do you suppose he would have put those instructions so you could find them?

Do you suppose your "god" wants just a few people to know the true ins and outs of "his way", so just those few can lead you like sheep?

Do you suppose your "clergy people" are your true shepards?

Are you so arrogant as to believe that your "god" had the "bible" written down just for you to put your hand on it to swear an oath?

Or even worse; just to tote back and forth with you on your Sunday "social gathering"?

Yes, I called it a "social gathering", ya get all gussied up and go there, not so much to worship "him" as you do to improve your standing on the social ladder.

What is church for?

Having bake sales?

Giving moneies for "missionary groups"?

quote:Oh goodness me Betsy,

look at all the unclean, poor, unsaved souls. Lets go there for a month or two to tell them how there lives are wrong and see if we can't change them to our ways. Because our ways are right and all others are wrong.

Sheesh, no wonder ya'll can get along... my way is right, no wait mine is, no wait your both wrong MY way is the right way! Come on kids, just a little tolerence, just a little??

Ice cream socials?

Having some guy/woman read to you out of the bible 'cause you're to lazy to read it yourself?

Singing a bunch of "hymnals"?

Discussing all the contradictions in the bible and how a almighty god could have so obviouly screwed up?(checking to see if you're reading it all ,my post that is)

Maybe mourning a bunch of dead loved ones?

Praying for those who have asked that (and I personaly find this just utterly innsane) you pray for them??!!

Here's a link that should disgust you:

Your, cheap, worthless, sacks of shit, "clergy" are OUTSOURCING YOUR PRAYER REQUESTS (http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/13/international/asia/13INDI.html)

What? Your "god" is going to listen to your "priest" more than he would you?

You're not that stupid, ignorant and misdirected; are you?

Your "god" isn't supposed to be like a fricken court judge, putting more weight on one persons testimony than anothers just because of their qualifications.

Or is he?

If you have sinned, but refuse to repent yourself, will having someone else ask for your forgiveness get you off the hook?

Ya, I didn't think so.

So why do you go to church when it is verily apparrent that it is totaly unnecessary, and maybe even dare I say; blasphemous?

Just how is it that you need to go to church in order to pray and put forth praise to him?

Isn't it kinda stupid "Preachin to the choir"?

I don't remember my churchin all that well but did't somebody once ask Jesus why he was amongst the unkempt masses, and not instead with the Holy clergymen?

And didn't Jesus explain that it would be just as ridiculous for him to sit amongst the Holymen and ignore the unkempt masses as it would for a physician to sit amongst the healthy and ignore the ill?

So what are you going to church for?

I suppose it's better than having all you lunatics running around every Sunday trying to cram your beleifs down my throat, but I really gotta question your motives for doing the church thing every Sunday.



If you got here just scrolling down:

GO BACK AND READ IT!

quote:Originally posted by MR END:

If you got here just scrolling down:

GO BACK AND READ IT!

Damnit, you caught me.

You are so, so angry at religion. I like you. I'm going to call you Big Maynard, because you're probably taller than him. If that's the kind of post we can expect from you in this forum, you should post here more often. We'd all be the better for it.

Alright man you make some good points and I think I might have the answers to some of them. but not all man I dont know everything.

In my opinino the prupose of the preist and clergy men and whatever is to give you a certain interpretation of the bible and whatever. They are educated in the bible their whole lives and give you an educated opinion on the bible and what it would want you to do in a certain situations. As for praying to people or anything its not like that. You dont pray to preists or anything you pray to saints. What you are doing when you do this is that you are asking the saint to pray for you like when you ask people to pray for you. really in my opinion its more of a comforting thing than anything else.

With you other point about churches becoming more of a social competition or whatever is right. A lot of churches are like that its become really corrupt like that. for that reason and others I dont go to church anymore. I believe in God but I have my own opinions on what the bible means.

Contradictions in the bible are because of human error and not Gods fault. Different people wrote the bible and they were influenced by God but God himself didnt acutaly hand write it so the book is imperfect. I think its simply the way different people interpreted Gods intervention is what created the contradictions.

In my opinion I dont have a probelm in people asking me to pray for them I dont see the problem you have with it. I couldnt see the link for some reason but I'll check it later. I think its not like God only helps you if so many people pray for you but I think its more of a comfort thing for the person. I have never asked people to pray for my probelms because I have never felt the need. But I have heard of some stuidues where when people prayed for things like people who were sick and another group of sick people didnt get prayed for the people that were praye for generally did better. So maybe it does help who knows.

In the end I know a lot of people who dont go to church because of the reasons you said. I personally do believe in God but I dont go to church because of a lot of the things you said and more. It seems to me you have a big probelm with the way religion is run and I agree with you on that.

That's why Abraham Lincoln never went to church.

Lucky,

Having other people tell you what to think(regardless of their education) is the utmost in lazyness.

I'm not saying that when you are told the pull of gravity on earth is 9.8 meters per second you should doubt it. There is obviously some pull toward earth.

What I am saying is that Religion is a different animal, it originates from the search for meaning and truth. A personal quest. So why have someone who thinks they have it figured out pretty well(even though they didnt really go through the quest, they are likely repeating what they have been taught) telling you that you do not have it figured out at all.

The one religion that I have respect for is the version of judiasm called the Qabalah. It is a guideline for how to look at the world and how seeing the world in such a way might lead you to find answers. But of course, once you uproot the answer from the ground, behold more questions for the roots.

quote:Originally posted by MR END:

Churcies only need reply.

If you got here just scrolling down:

GO BACK AND READ IT!



lol, me too

Why do people continually invest the time to write something like that, and then never hang around to see the responses?

quote:Originally posted by inquisitor_11:

Why do people continually invest the time to write something like that, and then never hang around to see the responses?

Ha Ha! You can wait a little longer.

Those writers wrote the bible years

ago and people are still waiting...

quote:Originally posted by yixil:

That's why Abraham Lincoln never went to church.

"The only person who is a worse liar than a faith healer is his patient."

- Abraham Lincoln

We need the clergy for the same reason we need other experts. Somebody who's devoted their life to theology is going to know a bit more about the subject than your random individual.

Might as well ask why we have biologists and astronomers when you're perfectly capable of coming to your own conclusions about the universe.

quote:Originally posted by Craftian:

Might as well ask why we have biologists and astronomers when you're perfectly capable of coming to your own conclusions about the universe.

Yeah, well these guys actually study reality instead of making it up.

They present facts, not interpretations.