If God created us then what created God? What created the creator of God, who created that etc.

Nothing can create consciousness because consciousnes can never "Not" exist.

its just something we can never understand God was always around and always will be here. Your thinking of God in terms of time when he isnt ruled or restricted by time

If something created what we know of god (nothing). Then it wouldn't be the true god.

People created God to explain the goings on of the planet. God is nothing more than a figment of our imaginations

quote:Originally posted by Roostergougingureyesout:

People created God to explain the goings on of the planet. God is nothing more than a figment of our imaginations

that is pretty imaginative... to imagine Someone so UNIMAGINABLE!

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

that is pretty imaginative... to imagine Someone so UNIMAGINABLE!



Do you see the paradox we have created?



[This message has been edited by Roostergougingureyesout (edited 06-17-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by CukieMunster:

If God created us then what created God? What created the creator of God, who created that etc.

Try this.. if all the energy/matter of the universe was at 'singularity' (and equallibrium) for eternity, what 'caused' it to be at unequallibrium and achieve "big bang"? If all matter/ energy is at 'singularity', that would mean that all gravity would also be at same 'point'. They say that a black hole has so much gravitational pull that not even light could escape.

Wouldn't 'singularity' be, in effect, the biggest black hole (un)imaginable??

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

Try this.. if all the energy/matter of the universe was at 'singularity' (and equallibrium) for eternity, what 'caused' it to be at unequallibrium and achieve "big bang"? If all matter/ energy is at 'singularity', that would mean that all gravity would also be at same 'point'. They say that a black hole has so much gravitational pull that not even light could escape.

Wouldn't 'singularity' be, in effect, the biggest black hole (un)imaginable??



I think I know what you're saying, but i could be totally be off...

The thing im stuck on is what would cause the big bang. If all matter is at 'singulatity' and all burdens are equal, what would throw the switch and create that imbalance that supposedly resulted in the arrangement of all matter into a more hospitable enviroment for living organisms.

In other words, what would cause the (un)imaginable blackhole to self destruct?

quote:Originally posted by Roostergougingureyesout:

I think I know what you're saying, but i could be totally be off...

The thing im stuck on is what would cause the big bang. If all matter is at 'singulatity' and all burdens are equal, what would throw the switch and create that imbalance that supposedly resulted in the arrangement of all matter into a more hospitable enviroment for living organisms.

In other words, what would cause the (un)imaginable blackhole to self destruct?

Most scientific theories have lent themselves room for a god to control their outcome, which seems to be the msot sound current idea for the cause of the first big bang. I stress current, don't get on me about that. Scientists do that now without realizing it, since most scientists way back in the 1500's and such were heavily influenced by theology. They wouldn't allow their faiths to be wrong about the existence of a god, no matter what role he played in the world. It's a fact that Galileo was a devout Catholic and only recanted his findings because he did not want to be excommunicated. Now, since all scientific theories are based on ones of old and no one has discovered something completely new, all sceintific theories allow at least some room for a god. Hardcore Jesophiles are the only ones who really think all science is wrong and out to undermine Christian authority. Most are reasonible enough to recognize that, even if it was written with divine inspiration, a man still held the quill and would thus make a mistake. I like those guys.

quote:Originally posted by Roostergougingureyesout:

I think I know what you're saying, but i could be totally be off...

The thing im stuck on is what would cause the big bang. If all matter is at 'singulatity' and all burdens are equal, what would throw the switch and create that imbalance that supposedly resulted in the arrangement of all matter into a more hospitable enviroment for living organisms.

In other words, what would cause the (un)imaginable blackhole to self destruct?

That would be the Creator. You know, the one you don't think exists.

there is no "god"

quote:Originally posted by whocares123:

That would be the Creator. You know, the one you don't think exists.



O he existed.

Can you say Diesm?

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

Try this.. if all the energy/matter of the universe was at 'singularity' (and equallibrium) for eternity, what 'caused' it to be at unequallibrium and achieve "big bang"? If all matter/ energy is at 'singularity', that would mean that all gravity would also be at same 'point'. They say that a black hole has so much gravitational pull that not even light could escape.

Wouldn't 'singularity' be, in effect, the biggest black hole (un)imaginable??



Maybe time's not linear, that everything repeats... the universe will undergo a "big crush" in the far future, and it'll explode again and start again. No beginning, like a circle. We don't know the nature of time.

Who knows about what happens inside singularities? No one. That doesn't mean it's anything to do with God, I don't fully understand how heat is transferred from electromagnetic waves to particles, but I don't assume it's somthing supernatural.

quote:Originally posted by Roostergougingureyesout:

O he existed.

Can you say Diesm?

No, but i can say 'deism', and it doesnt mean in the past tense. (as in existed)

quote:Originally posted by sp0rkius:

Maybe time's not linear, that everything repeats... the universe will undergo a "big crush" in the far future, and it'll explode again and start again. No beginning, like a circle. We don't know the nature of time.

Who knows about what happens inside singularities? No one. That doesn't mean it's anything to do with God, I don't fully understand how heat is transferred from electromagnetic waves to particles, but I don't assume it's somthing supernatural.



The point i was making was that this arguement can be said from either side of the coin. In other words, it is a useless question.

As far as "big crush" goes, leading physicist now feel that cant happen.. something to do with distance vs. gravity

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

As far as "big crush" goes, leading physicist now feel that cant happen.. something to do with distance vs. gravity

It's the big crunch by the way lol, sorry had to say that. I haven't heard of any arguement against the big crunch like that I shall look into it. With my current, but slightly limited, knowledge of cosmology and physics in general the big crunch seems quite probable to me.

More to the point of the post. That question is pretty futile. Just as asking what created the universe, you may say the big bang but what created that. This is a totally usless question because with our current theories we can not possibly calculate or theorise an answer to this question. Well, not until we have ourselves a unified theory and a quantum theory of gravity, which may be soon going by how well superstring theory is going.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Roostergougingureyesout:

People created God to explain the goings on of the planet. God is nothing more than a figment of our imaginations[/QUOTE

God is a figment of our imaginations but what isn't. take time for example, time doesn't exist,we made it up so we could count days, hearing is just the interperation of vibrating molocules by our brains, all intangibles, are nothing.

quote:Originally posted by icantthinkofaname:

It's the big crunch by the way lol, sorry had to say that. I haven't heard of any arguement against the big crunch like that I shall look into it. With my current, but slightly limited, knowledge of cosmology and physics in general the big crunch seems quite probable to me.

More to the point of the post. That question is pretty futile. Just as asking what created the universe, you may say the big bang but what created that. This is a totally usless question because with our current theories we can not possibly calculate or theorise an answer to this question. Well, not until we have ourselves a unified theory and a quantum theory of gravity, which may be soon going by how well superstring theory is going.



As for my typo, sorry. I have noticed that people that believe in God get criticized for spelling and punctuation much more than athiests. In the future I will try harder to make less mistakes. I realize that you may have been just teasing, but seldom have I seen the same teasing toward no believers.



You might start your search by checking this out...

"1983 Alan Guth (best known for his pioneering work on the inflationary features of the Big Bang Theory) appearing in the influential journal Nature, volume 302, beginning on page 505. The title of Guth's paper tells the story: "The Impossibility of a Bouncing Universe." Therein Guth showed that even if the universe contained sufficient mass to halt the current expansion, any collapse would end in a thud, not a bounce. Incidentally, the weight of opinion among cosmologists has shifted over the past five years to the position that, short of direct intervention by God, the universe will continue to expand forever."



p.s. I copied this from another source as i was too tired and lazy tonight after work to give more references or to put this into my own words.

although ive read about this from other scientists, i copied from.... Dr. "Fritz" Schaefer is the Graham Perdue Professor of Chemistry and the director of the Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry at the University of Georgia. He has been nominated for the Nobel Prize and was recently cited as the third most quoted chemist in the world. "The significance and joy in my science comes in the occasional moments of discovering something new and saying to myself, 'So that's how God did it!' My goal is to understand a little corner of God's plan." --U.S. News & World Report, Dec. 23, 1991.

I was teasing. Thanks for that bit of info though. I've never really took any opinion on the fate of the universe being "hot" or "cold", I can't see the point really until I have a degree or any physics qualification for that matter (I'm still in secondary school) as to call it a proffessional opinion.

Also in reference to the part about the bounce I knew that wasn't popular but I don't really keep up with scientific news which I should do really.

[This message has been edited by icantthinkofaname (edited 06-19-2004).]