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View Full Version : Can the Bible be infallible if it is written by fallible humans?


Digital_Savior
2004-06-18, 18:17
And if not, how can we accept it as literal truth?

There is no logical reason why this could not be true. After all, even fallible humans can get things right some of the time, especially if they are supervised by Someone who is infallible.

Christians do not claim that the humans who penned the books of the Bible were always accurate in everything they said or did. We simply believe that the Bible is right when it claims that God guided these men in their task of writing Scripture, in such a way that the result is an infallible book. The apostle Peter undoubtedly said some foolish things during his lifetime, but God did not allow him to clutter up the Bible with any of those blunders.

2 Timothy 3:16 contains the classic claim that the Bible was produced by God, not just men:

All Scripture is inspired by God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

One standard explanation of the concept of "inspiration" is given by Ryrie:

God's superintendence of the human authors so that, using their own individual personalities, they composed and recorded without error His revelation to man in the words of the original autographs. (Charles Ryrie, A Survey of Bible Doctrine (Chicago: Moody Press, 1972), p. 38)

We do not know exactly how God accomplished His purpose of providing a totally accurate Bible. But 2 Peter 1:21 gives some insight:

No prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

The word "moved" in this verse is also used in Acts 27:15 to describe the way a great storm blew the apostle Paul's ship off course across the Mediterranean. The people on board could spend the time as they chose (either bailing or wailing!), but the storm determined their destination of Malta. Similarly, God guided the writers of Scripture to produce exactly the message He wanted.



How do we know the Bible is true?



There have been hundreds of books written on the subject of the evidences of the divine inspiration of the Bible, and these evidences are many and varied. Most people today, unfortunately, have not read any of these books. In fact, few have even read the Bible itself! Thus, many people tend to go along with the popular delusion that the Bible is full of mistakes and is no longer relevant to our modern world.

Nevertheless the Bible writers claimed repeatedly that they were transmitting the very Word of God, infallible and authoritative in the highest degree. This is an amazing thing for any writer to say, and if the forty or so men who wrote the Scriptures were wrong in these claims, then they must have been lying, or insane, or both.

But, on the other hand, if the greatest and most influential book of the ages, containing the most beautiful literature and the most perfect moral code ever devised, was written by deceiving fanatics, then what hope is there for ever finding meaning and purpose in this world?

If one will seriously investigate these Biblical evidences, he will find that their claims of divine inspiration (stated over 3,000 times, in various ways) were amply justified.

Fulfilled Prophecies

The remarkable evidence of fulfilled prophecy is just one case in point. Hundreds of Bible prophecies have been fulfilled, specifically and meticulously, often long after the prophetic writer had passed away.

For example, Daniel the prophet predicted in about 538 BC (Daniel 9:24-27) that Christ would come as Israel's promised Savior and Prince 483 years after the Persian emperor would give the Jews authority to rebuild Jerusalem, which was then in ruins. This was clearly and definitely fulfilled, hundreds of years later.

There are extensive prophecies dealing with individual nations and cities and with the course of history in general, all of which have been literally fulfilled. More than 300 prophecies were fulfilled by Christ Himself at His first coming. Other prophecies deal with the spread of Christianity, as well as various false religions, and many other subjects.

There is no other book, ancient or modern, like this. The vague, and usually erroneous, prophecies of people like Jeanne Dixon, Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce, and others like them are not in the same category at all, and neither are other religious books such as the Koran, the Confucian Analects, and similar religious writings. Only the Bible manifests this remarkable prophetic evidence, and it does so on such a tremendous scale as to render completely absurd any explanation other than divine revelation.

Unique Historical Accuracy



The historical accuracy of the Scriptures is likewise in a class by itself, far superior to the written records of Egypt, Assyria, and other early nations. Archeological confirmations of the Biblical record have been almost innumerable in the last century. Dr. Nelson Glueck, probably the greatest modern authority on Israeli archeology, has said:

"No archeological discovery has ever controverted a Biblical reference. Scores of archeological findings have been made which confirm in clear outline or in exact detail historical statements in the Bible. And, by the same token, proper evaluation of Biblical descriptions has often led to amazing discoveries."

Scientific Accuracy

Another striking evidence of divine inspiration is found in the fact that many of the principles of modern science were recorded as facts of nature in the Bible long before scientist confirmed them experimentally. A sampling of these would include:



Roundness of the earth (Isaiah 40:22)

Almost infinite extent of the sidereal universe (Isaiah 55:9)

Law of conservation of mass and energy (II Peter 3:7)

Hydrologic cycle (Ecclesiastes 1:7)

Vast number of stars (Jeremiah 33:22)

Law of increasing entropy (Psalm 102:25-27)

Paramount importance of blood in life processes (Leviticus 17:11)

Atmospheric circulation (Ecclesiastes 1:6)

Gravitational field (Job 26:7)

and many others.

These are not stated in the technical jargon of modern science, of course, but in terms of the basic world of man's everyday experience; nevertheless, they are completely in accord with the most modern scientific facts.

It is significant also that no real mistake has ever been demonstrated in the Bible -- in science, in history, or in any other subject. Many have been claimed, of course, but conservative Bible scholars have always been able to work out reasonable solutions to all such problems.

Unique Structure

The remarkable structure of the Bible should also be stressed. Although it is a collection of 66 books, written by 40 or more different men over a period of 2,000 years, it is clearly one Book, with perfect unity and consistency throughout.

The individual writers, at the time of writing, had no idea that their message was eventually to be incorporated into such a Book, but each nevertheless fits perfectly into place and serves its own unique purpose as a component of the whole. Anyone who diligently studies the Bible will continually find remarkable structural and mathematical patterns woven throughout its fabric, with an intricacy and symmetry incapable of explanation by chance or collusion.

The one consistent theme of the Bible, developing in grandeur from Genesis to Revelation, is God's great work in the creation and redemption of all things, through His only Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.



Bible's Unique Effect



The Bible is unique also in terms of its effect on individual men and on the history of nations. It is the all-time best seller, appealing both to hearts and minds, beloved by at least some in every race or nation or tribe to which it has gone, rich or poor, scholar or simple, king or commoner, men of literally every background and walk of life. No other book has ever held such universal appeal nor produced such lasting effects.

One final evidence that the Bible is true is found in the testimony of those who have believed it. Multitudes of people, past and present, have found from personal experience that its promises are true, its counsel is sound, its commands and restrictions are wise, and its wonderful message of salvation meets every need for both time and eternity.



Some theologians teach that the Bible is inspired and authoritative, and that it is an accurate revelation of what God wants us to know about salvation - but they leave room for minor errors in non-crucial areas. One theologian, for instance, says that the Holy Spirit's work in inspiring the Bible only guaranteed "selectivity of events and accuracy of reporting and interpretation sufficient to achieve God's purpose throughout the rest of man's existence." (Dewey Beegle, Inspiration of Scripture, p. 190)

However, classic Christianity rests on the assurance that the Bible is completely accurate. It may contain statements that are (1) figures of speech; (2) non-technical descriptions; or (3) difficult to understand. But actual errors would fall into a different kind of category. If there are any errors in Scripture, no matter how small, the book can no longer be our standard of truth. I become the standard of truth, as I determine which Bible statements are right and which are wrong. And if I can't trust God to get the facts straight on things like dates and measurements (where I can check on Him), why should I expect Him to be more accurate in areas like sin and salvation (where I can't check on Him)?

The Bible doesn't use the word "inerrant," but the idea is obvious.



Psalm 19:7-9 - "The law of the Lord is perfect ... the testimony of the Lord is sure ... the commandment of the Lord is pure ... the judgments of the Lord are true forever."

Psalm 119:43 - "the word of truth."

Psalm 119:142 - "Thy law is the truth."

Psalm 119:160 -"Thy word is true from the beginning."

John 17:17 - "Thy word is truth."

An inaccurate Bible contradicts God's character quality of absolute truthfulness.

Titus 1:2 - "God who cannot lie."

Hebrews 6:18 - "It is impossible for God to lie."

Some consider this a minor issue, but the idea that the Bible contains errors opens the door to serious spiritual danger. When people decide they have the authority to label one verse as a mistake, they soon find others that they consign to the "error" category. I've watched it happen over the years. Each generation rejects more and more Scripture, as it gets in the way of their own opinions.

Digital_Savior
2004-06-18, 18:22
*bounce*

Digital_Savior
2004-06-18, 19:47
*bounce*

Digital_Savior
2004-06-19, 01:16
*bounce*

4Sight
2004-06-19, 03:28
*fuckoff*

*fuckoff*

*fuckoff*

If no one responds to your thread it means no one is interested and no one gives a damn, buy a fucking clue you shithead.

Where's the fucking mod of this forum? Ban this fucking douchebag.

DorianHawkmoon
2004-06-19, 12:49
Who ever said the bible was infallible is a jerk, and a fool. End of story. It is, so far as im concerned, a fiction, nothing more.

Uncus
2004-06-19, 20:44
This is obviously a taboo subject. It is eliciting nothing but either silence or scorn and hatred, that's a sure sign.

Metalligod
2004-06-19, 21:18
Does Digital_Savior own this forum? My God, I've never been in a forum where one person has at least 7 threadz at one time.

Do you not know anything of religion, or are your questions and statements just debate openers?

UnknownVeritas
2004-06-19, 23:07
^ Didn't you know, Metalligod?

It's easier to have others do your thinking for you. Just copy and paste as much crap as you can into a forum, excluding any form of independent thought. Genius...

Metalligod
2004-06-20, 20:16
quote:Originally posted by UnknownVeritas:

^ Didn't you know, Metalligod?

It's easier to have others do your thinking for you. Just copy and paste as much crap as you can into a forum, excluding any form of independent thought. Genius...

Makes sense. And that may very well be the case here, it sure as hell seems that way.

Sniper Piper
2004-06-21, 19:27
quote:Originally posted by DorianHawkmoon:

Who ever said the bible was infallible is a jerk, and a fool. End of story. It is, so far as im concerned, a fiction, nothing more.

Ive personally seen 400 supposed Contradictions and "Problem Texts", most are easily explained, but a few are "Whoppers".... if you come across something that looks like a mistake, just remember....

God is not Obligated to write a clear and understandable book, God is not handicapped by Human Logic.

Im thoroughly convinced that the Bible is a Supernatural book....no way around it! For many reasons...maybe I will start thread on this subject.

icantthinkofaname
2004-06-21, 20:05
quote:

Can the Bible be infallible if it is written by fallible humans?



Yep lol.

HINT:Don't write such long posts because no one will read them.

If I were you i would get your post into an article on the totse article list and make a summary of your article in the form of a post here.

gangstafied
2004-06-21, 21:44
The bible is ment for people who will belive that everything in it is true.. we might not know for SURE it is all true but faith is required to belive in it just like when people say God might not exist if you have faith you will belive he exists and thats what chrisitanity is based on whcih is faith we have to have faith to belive in things that are not able to be fully grasped by the human mind

Sniper Piper
2004-06-21, 22:06
quote:Originally posted by gangstafied:

The bible is ment for people who will belive that everything in it is true.. we might not know for SURE it is all true but faith is required to belive in it just like when people say God might not exist if you have faith you will belive he exists and thats what chrisitanity is based on whcih is faith we have to have faith to belive in things that are not able to be fully grasped by the human mind

I agree with most of what you said...However, I think you would agree, that there has to be something about the Bible that is Self Evident. You cant expect an Honest Skeptic to believe a book that doesnt have Reasonable evidence to verify its origin.

gangstafied
2004-06-22, 03:58
yes I agree with you on that sniper

there is alot in the bible that is pretty much saying... "dude who can u not belive this"

now some things are beliveable only by those who have faith... like the creationist theory

if you have true faith you will belive in what the bible says

just like if you have true faith in Jesus you know you will go to heavan becuase you know that he died for your sins

Digital_Savior
2004-06-23, 07:03
So, because I agree wholeheartedly with something that I found on another website, I must be a mindless, un-imaginative moron ?

What has happened to you in this life that would cause you to come to such conclusions about someone you don't know, and haven't even attempted to understand ?

Why do my posts invoke such anger and resentment ? Has it not occurred to you all that if you didn't truly care about what I have posted, you wouldn't be so hostile ?

I am actually an extremely intelligent individual (and no, that is not a delusion of grandeur...it is a curse, as much as it is a blessing. I am sure some of you here can relate to this sentiment) and spent over a decade of my life with my proverbial finger in the air at God.

I never denied He existed, but in my anger and ignorance, I rejected Him and did everything in my power to thwart Him in my life, as well as the lives of those around me. (once again, I claim ignorance here...how could I possibly accomplish such a lofty feat against the Creator of the Universe ?! Ridiculous...)

I DO have my own thoughts and ideas on God, the Bible, and our eternal state once our physical bodies perish.

I believe I am indicating what I believe vicariously through the script of someone else...so, at the worst, what I am guilty of is no more than plagerism.

If I did not believe what I post, written by me or not, why would I bother ?

Perhaps I felt lacking in eloquence that day, or maybe it was just that I couldn't find a better way to convey the point I was trying to get across.

Nothing I post in this forum is meant to offend. If what I have said is not accepted, so be it. I have just as much right to believe in God, as you do to NOT believe in Him.

Ask yourself what drove you to seek the truth about His existence in the first place, though...if there was NO God at all, why would this argument have lasted so long throughout the history of man ?

Do you not think it would have ended at the golden calf, if humans were left to their own devices in creating a god that would satiate their need to believe in something greater than themselves ?

Optimus Prime
2004-06-23, 09:44
"Ask yourself what drove you to seek the truth about His existence in the first place, though...if there was NO God at all, why would this argument have lasted so long throughout the history of man ?"

That's a good question. I'd say those who indignantly argue about it rather than just discuss the ideas are usually insecure in their level of faith. Some of us are secure though and just like discussing the ideas. Myself, I'm rather secure in my lack of faith and feel no need to argue about it, but I'm always open to intellectual masturbation http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

MasterPython
2004-06-23, 10:25
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-t002.html

Did you get permition before you ripped off this essay?

Why didnt you site them as the source?

How many of your other essays are plagerised?

UnknownVeritas
2004-06-23, 20:33
Ok, Savior. It's fine that you agree with the author of the essays that you post. I'm sure you do have your own ideas on religion (though we haven't seen any), but when you completely flood the forum and bump your own threads, it gets old. You drown out all the other discussions that had been taking place. To me, this is extremely rude. If no one was responding to your threads, you should have let it go. I have no problem with discussing religion. Yet, as i stated, we haven't seen much from you other than some pasted articles.

Show us YOUR ideas. Don't tell me to go back and read all those articles and accept them as your belief. Bring some perspective to the table.

Digital_Savior
2004-06-23, 21:39
quote:Originally posted by MasterPython:

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-acb/acb-t002.html

Did you get permition before you ripped off this essay?

Why didnt you site them as the source?

How many of your other essays are plagerised?





On other threads I have referenced this website's material by using links.

The literature located on that site is free to use by anyone who sees it's value.

It wasn't intentional in order to fool people into thinking I had written it. I honestly didn't feel like it was going to present a problem.

Digital_Savior
2004-06-23, 21:51
quote:Originally posted by UnknownVeritas:

Ok, Savior. It's fine that you agree with the author of the essays that you post. I'm sure you do have your own ideas on religion (though we haven't seen any), but when you completely flood the forum and bump your own threads, it gets old. You drown out all the other discussions that had been taking place. To me, this is extremely rude. If no one was responding to your threads, you should have let it go. I have no problem with discussing religion. Yet, as i stated, we haven't seen much from you other than some pasted articles.

Show us YOUR ideas. Don't tell me to go back and read all those articles and accept them as your belief. Bring some perspective to the table.



Actually, there are SEVERAL threads where I have given my own personal beliefs and opinions. Please try and find them if you are really that interested, though I doubt that is the case. Discreditting my belief is far more interesting to most people in this forum.

As far as flooding the forum, where can I find the handbook on thread etiquette ?

Everyone pisses someone else off sometime...can't make everyone happy.

Seems as though there are a lot of questions and doubts in regards to the validity of a living God, and the accuracy/dependability of the Bible.

So, I felt that it was appropriate to show the evidence from a Christian standpoint.

Atheists and pagans can go on and on about how they don't believe and why, but when a Christian does the exact opposite, they are attacked.



Interesting...

UnknownVeritas
2004-06-24, 01:13
I don't recall attacking your beliefs, Savior. I am agnostic, I don't attack anyone for their beliefs. I was attacking your behavior. You act as if you didn't know that you were being rude. Yet, at one point, you had about 9 separate threads on the first page, and you bumped them... over... and over. That's called flooding. Several discussions were kicked off the first page, all replaced with your copied articles. If you don't consider that rude you must have the behavioral tendencies of an eight year old.

Now, lets stop the bickering. Bring on a discussion that I would actually enjoy taking part in.

Sniper Piper
2004-06-24, 08:51
quote:Originally posted by UnknownVeritas:



Show us YOUR ideas. Don't tell me to go back and read all those articles and accept them as your belief. Bring some perspective to the table.

I agree.

Digital Savior come up with something that invokes an argument. I agree with your Conclusions and most of your material, but be Original.

Anybody can Copy your article and then Paste it into a search engine and find out the sources youre using.

Totse posters want to argue, not read.

Optimus Prime
2004-06-24, 09:50
Hey, Sniper, there's a difference between a discussion and an arguement.

Uncus
2004-06-24, 21:43
quote:Originally posted by icantthinkofaname:

If I were you i would get your post into an article on the totse article list and make a summary of your article in the form of a post here.

That would be a good idea. There are certainly texts there which are more nonsensical than this here.

Uncus
2004-06-24, 21:47
quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

Totse posters want to argue, not read.



So what stops them from arguing, if they feel enclined to do so ? Obviously you can't argue out of thin air. That post of Digital savior, even if it may be copy/pasted, is providing enough material for discussion and argument to last half a lifetime.

Uncus
2004-06-24, 21:59
quote:Originally posted by Metalligod:

Does Digital_Savior own this forum? My God, I've never been in a forum where one person has at least 7 threadz at one time.

Do you not know anything of religion, or are your questions and statements just debate openers?



You are just jealous, Metalligod. Why shouldn't anyone have the right to have several threads of his own running at the same time ? Is it such an offense to you if someone has a lot of ideas ?

And what's wrong with debate openers ? AFAICS (as far as I can see), that's what's needed for opening a debate, isn't it ? Anything else would not contribute anything, would it ?

Digital_Savior
2004-06-26, 01:33
Why thank you Uncus...even if you don't agree with me, at least you're objective.



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