What makes someone a god? Supposing Jesus was a god, what made him a god? Who decides who is a god and who decides what makes someone a god? Who has the patent and what does it entail? How do you prove you are a god and what kind of priviledges are you allotted if you are? If you find out you are a god, does that mean you have to do something? What would you have to do?

Just wondering...

Cheers,

Lost

If you are God or a God then you would know the answers to your questions automatically.

And I don't even think that those questions matter once you become a God.

One definition is that if you believe in sonething, then that is your god. Most people believe in many things and therefore have many gods. Can you think of a way to have only one god? What would be appropriate about having only one god?

"Man is a god who is unaware that he is such - it is his unawareness alone that makes him a man."

-Julius Evola

I wouldn't necessarily call this a "new" speculation, but for this forum it is different. If what makes some a god is to be a creator, then surely we all have the capacity to be a god. Am I not creating these words? Am I not creating thoughts in your mind with these words I create? Could these thoughts not inspire action to change the world around you perhaps create a religion? Oh you creators, you, sitting idely by while pain and confusion manifests itself through the absense of your creations.

If these thoughts truly rattle around in your skull I strongly recomend you pick up "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" by Nietzsche.

"Once spirit was God, then it became man, now it is even becoming mob." - from said book.

With the thousands of defenitions of Gods, and the various Gods worshipped, then would a God not be made up of all the aspects that they share? For example, one of the few similarities they all share, us that all Gods are viewed as being superior to humans. So a God must be 'better' than a human. This brings up the questions of how is a God better? How is a human worse?

Humans are fallible, but so are some Gods. Humans can be killed, but so can some Gods. Humans love, learn, help, kill, and are generally temperamental. So, however, are Gods.

What other traits do Gods all share? Very few, it would appear. So maybe what some people consider to be Gods are actually (assuming they ever existed) just regular people, or 'demi-gods,' or any thousands of applicable names.

Damn people and their obsession with labeling everything.

quote:One definition is that if you believe in sonething, then that is your god.

Seriously? 'Cause that's a really stupid definition.

Traffic_Lights, I wasn't speaking for anyone when I said "New Speculation". It's my own new speculation.

So far, no one has been able to answer these questions.

Odd.

Cheers,

Lost

You ignored everything about my post except I called it "un"new (if that's even a word.) I think I did answer your questions, indirectly and maybe answering questions with questions but still. Most people who consider God "God" now-a-days call him a creator god. Or simply, The Creator. With these qualifications we could ALL be Creators, we could all be God.

Although most waste this capacity, it doesn't mean you should. Come on, you could be the next to start a religion, open a land of wonderment and magic, whatever your heart's desire. Be the next Jesus, the next Walt Disney, the next Patch Adams, the next Krishna, the next WHOEVER-THE-FUCK-YOU-WANNA-BE

I'm not looking for someone elses philosophy, I've tried looking up definitions and researching religious texts and I can't find any solid explanations or even examples of what a god is, what the requirement are, etc...

Everyone has their own philosophy on what god is or isn't. But, what are the exact specifications? Who decides who is a god and how much power a god can have, or take? Who says gods can't be human or can be? Etc.

So, you answer back with your own philosophy and your own questions in order to wrangle me into some new enlightened state, as you suppose you are. But, I'm not interested in philosophy right now. I have oodles of that of my own. I'm looking for the root of what everyone is talking about.

Where does the whole god thing stem from? The first religion. The first god. The standard perhaps for all gods in succession. But, it all seems to branch out into nothingness before reaching any clear destination.

I study religion, but am not a religious person. I believe in god, but I don't have any expectations. Currently, I'm just curious about the origins of my own faith. Does my own belief branch out into nothingness like everything else seems to? I can't tell yet. But, it doesn't seem like anyone else knows any better than I do.

Cheers,

Lost

So it would appear you would like the original answer to the original question. I'm no history buff but I don't think that's an answer anybody will know. Ever since man's been capable of concious thought, relfection, and everything he would have had to figure out some sort of meaning to his existance. Almost every conception of God has roots stemming back to before writing was developed.

It's been a while since I've taken a good look back way way back, but I'm pretty sure the first civilizations were around the "fertile crescent" the Tigris and Euphradies. Around the same time were the Egyptians. If my memory is accurate than I would assume that would mean original God came from that area, because God seems to be the thing that seperated us from animals. Purpose, a reason to make a society in the first place, or on the flip side of the coin a tool for the smartest to rule over those craving meaning but have none.

Since then God has been the center of many many lives with exceedingly various interpretations and consequences. What strings them all together though, really, is purpose. A sigh of relief, a test, a parent, a metaphor of connection, a being to strive to be, a being to love, whatever the flavor the sustenance is meaning in a confusing and lonely existance.

As for branching out to nothingness, you pretty much came from nothing going back to nothing. What have you lost?

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

What makes someone a god?

Well, we'd have to define what a "god" is. M-w.com (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=god) defines it as this: quote:1 capitalized : the supreme or ultimate reality: as a : the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshiped as creator and ruler of the universe b Christian Science : the incorporeal divine Principle ruling over all as eternal Spirit : infinite Mind

2 : a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically : one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality

3 : a person or thing of supreme value

4 : a powerful ruler

The first two seem more like what we're looking for, in this case. But, we have another problem now: How can we just pick something and say it's what a god is?

Perhaps this is what being a god is really about: being able to say "I am a god!" without having to justify it to anyone else, or even them self.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

Supposing Jesus was a god, what made him a god?

Well, if Jesus was a god, the only person that could have decided that he was a god (or made him, as the case is) is Jesus himself.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

Who decides who is a god and who decides what makes someone a god?

In all likelihood, the god in question decides both. It's a catch-22, most likely: If you want to be a god you have to be a god to become a god. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

Who has the patent and what does it entail?

There is no patent, that'd be like saying "Who has the patent and what does it entail to be human? To be alive? To be a totse member?". Being a god must be something like that, you either are, or you are not.

No one can tell you that you're not human, nor that you're not a totse member. The same works for someone that's a god, I'd guess.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

How do you prove you are a god and what kind of priviledges are you allotted if you are?

If you were a god, you wouldn't need to prove that you were a god to anyone. You'd just be... A god. And gods have the same privileges as anyone else, I'd wager, but they can use them in ways that no one else can because they are on another plane of thought entirely.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

If you find out you are a god, does that mean you have to do something?

Gods have to eat too, ya know. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

What would you have to do?

See above.

Thanks Gustave. That's the kind of answer I was looking for.

"Perhaps this is what being a god is really about: being able to say "I am a god!" without having to justify it to anyone else, or even them self."

- I don't know any better than you do about this, obviously since I asked the question. But, that statement suggests that Jesus wasn't a god and was just a liar, because if he was a god then he wouldn't've needed to prove it. I don't believe Jesus was god anyways and I'm not trying to prove my point of view to anyone. I'm just bouncing off your statement.

"There is no patent, that'd be like saying "Who has the patent and what does it entail to be human? To be alive? To be a totse member?". Being a god must be something like that, you either are, or you are not."

- The problem with that is that there are other humans around to assure you that you either are or aren't a human. There don't seem to be many gods hanging around to assure you you are or aren't a god. So, basically, it's your word - as god - alone that means anything in the business of telling people about your being god and all.

"If you were a god, you wouldn't need to prove that you were a god to anyone. You'd just be... A god. And gods have the same privileges as anyone else, I'd wager, but they can use them in ways that no one else can because they are on another plane of thought entirely."

- Yea, so why do all of these so-called gods: Jesus and Mohammed for starters, but lots of other ones, too, always seem to be on some crazy crusade to prove that they are god. If they really are god everyone would know it automatically, right?

I'm just inching my way closer and closer to way of proving I am a god and thereby proving or disproving religion or just making a lot of people look like jackasses and give me their money.

Just kidding.

Well, kind of...

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by 256:

Seriously? 'Cause that's a really stupid definition.

He's referring to"One definition is that if you believe in something, then that is your god". How this comes about to be true is that any belief, except one, can be shown to be flawed. In other words, there is nothing that you think is true that cannot be shown to not be true in all situations, (except one truth). Take any idea, or thought, that you think is true, and it can be shown that this idea or thought, will not always be true, even if it is true most of the time, or 99.99999999% of the time. Only one idea can will be true 100% of the time, and that idea is God, or the same as God (whatever that means).

So it turns out that God is true all of the "time" (I put time in parentheses because time is also only true most of the time) and is the only thing that is. This is what it means to say "God is one".

All of what I am saying above can be discovered by thinking or reflecting on things. And so it turns out that The True God is defined as something you believe in, but there is only one true god, one true belief. Once you discover the true belief this becomes obvious, but until you discover it it will seem like a mystery, or that it doesn't make sense, or that it is stupid. But it is always right in front of us, just waiting for us to believe in it, and not believing in it is part of the process or learning how to believe in it. So its not really bad to not believe in it, because we all have to start from that position of not believing, and even when we do start to believe, we are still a long way off even though we have reached our destination.

So they say Bhuddists(sp?) have many gods. I say scientists have many gods, because they believe in many things. I know, at least, that there is only one god, one belief, even though I know very little else, but to know much else is not that important as long as I know this one thing. This one belief will always save me.

Think of something that you think is true.

Think of all the things you think are true.

Then ask a question about that truth, and if you can get more than one answer, then what you thought was true wasn't really true. Do this over and over and over and over and over, day after day after day, and see where you go.

So what... truth is relative, with the exception of one Ultimate Truth that really sets the standard for true. No?

The way we're going we're pretty soon going to have to give a definition of true. Are we talking the set of beliefs that an individual considers relevant to themselves? How'bout what's statistically true? The "Facts" that any society as a whole can generally agree on. Or the cold hard mathematical laws that prove themselves over and over again?

I think that the definition of god is only ever going to be true in the first sense. I don't see it as a fundamental law of the universe, as it seems that so far we've got along quite nicely without it. And if you can ever get two people to agree wholeheartedly on their definition of god then someone's had their thinking done for them.

quote:Originally posted by Diokhan:

. Or the cold hard mathematical laws that prove themselves over and over again?

Your post is hard to follow, but I will say that there are no mathematical laws that are proven except as deductions based upon assumptions that exist nowhere. So you have a theory that never actually explains reality, no matter how close it may get.

Reality has never been encountered, seen, heard, or felt.

[This message has been edited by bkc (edited 06-30-2004).]

[This message has been edited by bkc (edited 06-30-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

I don't know any better than you do about this, obviously since I asked the question. But, that statement suggests that Jesus wasn't a god and was just a liar, because if he was a god then he wouldn't've needed to prove it. I don't believe Jesus was god anyways and I'm not trying to prove my point of view to anyone. I'm just bouncing off your statement.

I think Jesus was just some guy that lived 2000 or so years ago. I doubt he was a god, nor the son of a god.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

The problem with that is that there are other humans around to assure you that you either are or aren't a human. There don't seem to be many gods hanging around to assure you you are or aren't a god. So, basically, it's your word - as god - alone that means anything in the business of telling people about your being god and all.

Well, this gets into "What is a god, really?". How is to say that all humans could become a god, yet none do? Hell, we could all BE gods, and just don't realize it (which I think is true on some levels). Anyways, though, the frail genetic connection I have with the 6.5 billion beings on this planet aren't going to hold me back from being a god. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

Yea, so why do all of these so-called gods: Jesus and Mohammed for starters, but lots of other ones, too, always seem to be on some crazy crusade to prove that they are god. If they really are god everyone would know it automatically, right?

I could go around saying "I'm a turtle!" all of my life, and I bet a few crazy people would believe me before I died. Then, through the ages, the story of the boy that was a turtle would go on and on until everyone believed that I was the fifth Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle.

The point is that just because someone says they're (or even worse, someone else says they're) god doesn't mean they are. For all you know Snoopy could be a god, and no one knowns because he's a real god and doesn't go around blabbing about it.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

I'm just inching my way closer and closer to way of proving I am a god and thereby proving or disproving religion or just making a lot of people look like jackasses and give me their money.

Just kidding.

Well, kind of...

Cheers,

Lost

...And ruin the very basic structure of society itself? Binary's speed to you. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

So you were just waiting around until someone said what you wanted to hear (or read) closing eyes and ears to anything else? Way to be God. I also don't really see the missions to be a proven God as simply that. These people were more on a mission to save the world. They see it as sick, or at least something wrong with it, for if it wasn't there wouldn't be a reason for their religion. Problem with that is although most people hate their current situation they hate change even more, especially radical change. So they convince people that they're God to get support instead of a struggle, but by then the government has them killed.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is stop trying convince others (and yourself) that You're God and just change the world.

[This message has been edited by I_Like_Traffic_Lights (edited 06-30-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by I_Like_Traffic_Lights:

So I guess what I'm trying to say is stop trying convince others (and yourself) that You're God and just change the world.

There we go.

Become a god after you've done biblical feats. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

You don't have to perform biblical feats to change the world. It's not hard to (this will sound after-school-specialish) volunteer at foodbanks, hell buy a bum a double cheeseburger. Convince people that life is a worthy event. Brighten up a lonely stranger, and there's countless amounts of lonely lonely people. You could just randomly stop by a stranger's house (not door-to-door ideal pelting like a jehovah's witness just randomly) and not even bother them just talk to 'em, ask 'em for a story. It'll remind 'em that there is in fact life out there.

You don't have to bring back the dead to make an incredibly deep impact on someone's life and be considered "miraculous"

quote:Originally posted by I_Like_Traffic_Lights:

You don't have to perform biblical feats to change the world. It's not hard to (this will sound after-school-specialish) volunteer at foodbanks, hell buy a bum a double cheeseburger. Convince people that life is a worthy event. Brighten up a lonely stranger, and there's countless amounts of lonely lonely people. You could just randomly stop by a stranger's house (not door-to-door ideal pelting like a jehovah's witness just randomly) and not even bother them just talk to 'em, ask 'em for a story. It'll remind 'em that there is in fact life out there.

Ah, now we're talking about common-day gods. Well, not really gods, but beings that excel that the current moral structure.

quote:Originally posted by I_Like_Traffic_Lights:

You don't have to bring back the dead to make an incredibly deep impact on someone's life and be considered "miraculous"

But, to tell you the truth, it helps. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

quote:Originally posted by I_Like_Traffic_Lights:

So you were just waiting around until someone said what you wanted to hear (or read) closing eyes and ears to anything else? Way to be God. I also don't really see the missions to be a proven God as simply that. These people were more on a mission to save the world. They see it as sick, or at least something wrong with it, for if it wasn't there wouldn't be a reason for their religion. Problem with that is although most people hate their current situation they hate change even more, especially radical change. So they convince people that they're God to get support instead of a struggle, but by then the government has them killed.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is stop trying convince others (and yourself) that You're God and just change the world.

[This message has been edited by I_Like_Traffic_Lights (edited 06-30-2004).]

I wasn't just waiting for what I wanted to hear. I didn't know what I wanted to hear, obviously, because I asked the question? I wanted an answer to the question I asked. Only by already knowing the answer to my question would I be able to gage what I wanted to hear, and since I didn't know the answer (and it's still vague), I wasn't just looking for what I wanted to hear.

What I was looking for was a slightly more solid answer than the only you gave.

Cheers,

Lost

All of you people are looking through the infinite texts and belief systems searching for something that is inside you.

All the spiritually wise have already said it is in you. You are the one who ignores them, you are the one who is never satisfied by this explanation or that one. Your ego will just search forever, leading to disappointment! It never stops until you stop it!

Look in YOU. Look in the mirror. Our egos cause us to look everywhere else. Once you look in the mirror long enough, patiently enough, in the right way, You will see God everywhere you go. You'll know you are everything around you, you'll feel it in a way that can't be described in words. But nobody can make you do it besides yourself! Even my words will become empty meaningless lights to you on the screen after a while. Why continue to search forever in this depression? Searching for some answer, day by day our lives are fading away!

And by the way, Jesus said "ye are Gods" and that's basically why everyone was afraid of him, and still are. Stop worshipping him, stop fearing him or all this dogma bullshit and just go inside. You will not find God searching through piles of religious books in a big room, you'll only find more piles of religious books to search through.

Here's a friendly tip: http://www.geocities.com/osho1980/med2.html

And don't believe me if you don't want to! I could care less at this point! I don't want people to listen to me, I just wish they'd meditate more and see what they're missing out on.

Those were merely examples to clearly show how easy it is to change the world (which is what religion aims at.) They don't have to be so obvious, and they don't have to be so morally good. You can change the world subtly by acting like a jackass to a stranger, hence changing their current train of thought possibly creating reactions causing a chain of seeminly unconnected events that could (unlikely but possibly) change an event of great importance. Because you decided to do something to make a certain someone think "what the fuck?"

You could also change the world by killing homeless people. Not moral by any moral standards but it probably wouldn't be hard to execute or get away with, and sure would be changing the world.

These are just examples if you can't get over certain colors you'll never see the painting. I know it's hard to get passed things people say to hear what they're saying, but come on man try. Or try to try. I realize my ideas don't enter the cognitive pattern like most are used to but the more abstract a "truth" the more the senses have to be seduced to it.

I don't know, philisophical back-and-forth molding an answer between the participants seemed right for a "who says whos God" open debate.

My definition of god(more accurately Steven Brust's definition of god):Any being who can exist in multiple places at the same moment in time, and act independently with each manifestation. Seeing as how time can be defined by motion, and motion by the amount of kinetic energy acting on something, the art of controling energy levels in your body to bend space and suchlike is being a god, and godhood is a learnable skill.

So this means that either there are no gods, there are gods, but because of the nature of them they don't care that I am an atheist and don't want to kill me, no one has learned to be a god, or we are all a manifestation of a god that has some nasty mental diseases that cause it to argue with itself. Or I am completely wrong, and godhood is something else altogether.