Do any of u guys know where i can read about this and maybe join Buddhaism. I really sick of hearing all of the Free mansions, Heavan & Hell, The Anti-Chirst, 666, Stain, KKK, and the Amish. So any links that might be helpfull plz include. (I all ready read the things on this site.)

http://www.meta-religion.com/World_Religions/Buddhism/budism.htm

You looking to join the original Theravada Buddhism or the modernized theistic Buddhism?

Theistic Buddhism is crap, don't go for it

Stick with Theravada, man. It's the shit http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

Yeah...Buddhism is the smartest religion of them all, and go for thervad ...it's the shit like rabbit said.

As a start, read Walpola Rahula's "What the Buddha Taught." It's one of the best texts on the basics of Theravada Buddhism.

After that, you can start learning about various Mahayana forms if you'd like (Zen, Tibetan, etc.).

Not to be nitpicky, but the actual distinction is Theravada/Mahayana, not Theravada/Theistic. For example, Zen Buddhism is not Theravadan but it's certainly not "theistic" either.

My apologies, I didn't look too deep into the Mahanaya Buddhisms due to their tendancies of having god figures.

I presume that the "figures" you speak of are those seen in pictures embroided in jewelry and the like. My facts my not entirely be accurate, but those are in fact Buddhas and Bodhisattvas (a person who has, out of the utmost compassion, renounced buddhahood in order to aid us sentient beings reach nirvana) that symbolize various elements of the Dharma.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/index.html

http://www.buddhanet.net/sitemap.htm

http://www.buddhismtoday.com/index/index-eng1-beginners.htm

http://www4.bayarea.net/~mtlee/

http://www.buddhistinformation.com/suggested_readings.htm

http://online.sfsu.edu/~rone/Buddhism/Buddhism.htm

http://www.urbandharma.org/sutta.html

http://www.serve.com/cmtan/buddhism/

http://www.tibet.com

http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/tib/index.htm

Hope this helps. And anything by the Dalai Lama is good.

and:

http://web.singnet.com.sg/~sidneys/kalama.htm

http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)[This message has been edited by Gaspode (edited 07-05-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Gaspode (edited 07-05-2004).]

The Dalai Lama's books, speeches and general works are good, but they're usually in layman's terms and are trying to educate christians or others like that on buddhism. You'll find that alot of books on buddhism are free, these are written by masters, monks etc and are from monastries or associations, they're usually very good an informative. Ven. Master Chin Kung rights good books that are free, but I find the Dalai Lama's books are more comforting and all the rest of it, where as ven. master chin kung sticks to information and some may find it a bit heavy. I would advise reading his books over twice or more.

Where can I find these books?

The Doctrine of Awakening by Julius Evola, from Inner Traditions press.

By far the best - and most accurate - Buddhist commentary I've ever heard, analyzing the principles of the original cult of Prince Siddattha himself.

first point of advice, don't read any books on buddhism by any goddamn crackers. They don't know shit. Read the Dalai Lama, he's great if your white because he really makes it easy to understand coming from a western/hellenistic/roman spiritual background.

However if you are asian, and aren't buddhist already, you have disgracen yourself and your families. (just kidding)

My favorite buddhist writer is Thich Nhat Hanh, mostly cause he's vietnamese. The Dalai Lama has said that he speaks with the voice of buddha, MLK jr. also was his advocate for the nobel peace prize. That's some pretty big shit when Martin Luther King jr. nominates YOU for a nobel peace prize.

ok to address some points........

NeoCide, dont just "join" buddhism because your sick of your western/ansectral doctrines, and please spell the goddamn word right if you really wanna "join" it. You really need to want to follow the path to enlightenment, and I highly doubt you could, it's just as hard to follow as christianity, in fact they entail many of the same things.

Optimus Prime - The "original" buddhism wasn't therevada. ok, so heres how it went down....... the buddha has his Great Passing Away. his group of disciples, the sangha, divided into two schools AT THE SAME TIME, the Mahasanghika, meaning "the greater" as in more people or majority; and the Sthaviravada, meaning "the elders". after that "the elders" split into two more groups. The sarvastivada and the vibhajyavada. Then came Mahayana. so you should be hesitant to can Theravada the original. Just like the christians, original christianity was called "the way" and was just a sub-sect of judaism, only after years of distortion and skewing did it's different denominations come about.

Also, "thiestic buddhism" isn't modern, ther have been taoist and hindu gods in Buddhism since it's inception. Buddha spoke about mara, the evil demon. You've probably seen asians with those jade buddha necklaces, hell i've got one, you've probably seen a few that have a very skinny standing figure, that is Au Co in Vietnamese, i don't remember her pali/hindu/chinese/tibetan/or japanses name but she is essentially the main toaist goddess and is just as revered as buddha, she is the goddess of compassion.

Phresied Rabbits - as I would assume with 99% of you guys talking about buddhism, you are white. So you pretty much have little knowledge about what you are talking about. Therevada buddhism is thiestic also, BUDDHA BELIEVED IN GOD'S AND GODDESSESS, THATS WHAT THE THE PURE LANDS ARE! THE GOD'S LAND! if anything Therevada, being more traditional, involves more god's and spirits.

Homosuperior - Buddhism is overrated, you guys are just searching for an alternative to the stupid, imposing form of christianity that has been shoved down your throat. Look into christianity a bit more, read the bible and keep in mind that a whole bunch of old jews wrote it, there are tons of discrepencies and idiotic passages, but there is tons of truth in it too. Jesus and buddha were all about the same things. it's all good. Even buddhism had it's times of tyranny, it isn't perfect.

Nurotik_Sykotik - your pretty much on point

As I said NeoCide, don't turn straight to buddhism cause it's the thing to do (don't argue, you know white kids think it's rebelious in it's own way to be buddhist in your environment of christians). I seriously recomend you start looking back into your original faith, which i would assume is christianity, it really isnt that bad. Just look past all the christian right and the fundamentalist bible-thumpers. I recomend a book called "Jesus Against Christianity". It is a great look at the historical jesus, not the Christ. He was a real rebel man. Non-violent style, he was a hardcore government-overthrower. That's why he was killed, because he stood up to the injustices and tyranny he saw in his world. Jesus is way cooler than most people portray him to be. By all means explore Buddhism, but the same messages can be found within your own faith.

quote:Originally posted by Fuck:

Well, someone should post this: http://www.buddhanet.net/

http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

I would recommend reading more Buddhists text, not text written by western folks trying to explain what Buddhism is.

However you don't have to throw yourself into Buddhism or any other religion just because you don't like Christianity or something. Think about this and make your choice.

You cant even spell it (buddhaism)

quote:Originally posted by aTribeCalledSean:

first point of advice, don't read any books on buddhism by any goddamn crackers. They don't know shit. Read the Dalai Lama, he's great if your white because he really makes it easy to understand coming from a western/hellenistic/roman spiritual background.

However if you are asian, and aren't buddhist already, you have disgracen yourself and your families. (just kidding)

My favorite buddhist writer is Thich Nhat Hanh, mostly cause he's vietnamese. The Dalai Lama has said that he speaks with the voice of buddha, MLK jr. also was his advocate for the nobel peace prize. That's some pretty big shit when Martin Luther King jr. nominates YOU for a nobel peace prize.

ok to address some points........

NeoCide, dont just "join" buddhism because your sick of your western/ansectral doctrines, and please spell the goddamn word right if you really wanna "join" it. You really need to want to follow the path to enlightenment, and I highly doubt you could, it's just as hard to follow as christianity, in fact they entail many of the same things.

Optimus Prime - The "original" buddhism wasn't therevada. ok, so heres how it went down....... the buddha has his Great Passing Away. his group of disciples, the sangha, divided into two schools AT THE SAME TIME, the Mahasanghika, meaning "the greater" as in more people or majority; and the Sthaviravada, meaning "the elders". after that "the elders" split into two more groups. The sarvastivada and the vibhajyavada. Then came Mahayana. so you should be hesitant to can Theravada the original. Just like the christians, original christianity was called "the way" and was just a sub-sect of judaism, only after years of distortion and skewing did it's different denominations come about.

Also, "thiestic buddhism" isn't modern, ther have been taoist and hindu gods in Buddhism since it's inception. Buddha spoke about mara, the evil demon. You've probably seen asians with those jade buddha necklaces, hell i've got one, you've probably seen a few that have a very skinny standing figure, that is Au Co in Vietnamese, i don't remember her pali/hindu/chinese/tibetan/or japanses name but she is essentially the main toaist goddess and is just as revered as buddha, she is the goddess of compassion.

Phresied Rabbits - as I would assume with 99% of you guys talking about buddhism, you are white. So you pretty much have little knowledge about what you are talking about. Therevada buddhism is thiestic also, BUDDHA BELIEVED IN GOD'S AND GODDESSESS, THATS WHAT THE THE PURE LANDS ARE! THE GOD'S LAND! if anything Therevada, being more traditional, involves more god's and spirits.

Homosuperior - Buddhism is overrated, you guys are just searching for an alternative to the stupid, imposing form of christianity that has been shoved down your throat. Look into christianity a bit more, read the bible and keep in mind that a whole bunch of old jews wrote it, there are tons of discrepencies and idiotic passages, but there is tons of truth in it too. Jesus and buddha were all about the same things. it's all good. Even buddhism had it's times of tyranny, it isn't perfect.

Nurotik_Sykotik - your pretty much on point

As I said NeoCide, don't turn straight to buddhism cause it's the thing to do (don't argue, you know white kids think it's rebelious in it's own way to be buddhist in your environment of christians). I seriously recomend you start looking back into your original faith, which i would assume is christianity, it really isnt that bad. Just look past all the christian right and the fundamentalist bible-thumpers. I recomend a book called "Jesus Against Christianity". It is a great look at the historical jesus, not the Christ. He was a real rebel man. Non-violent style, he was a hardcore government-overthrower. That's why he was killed, because he stood up to the injustices and tyranny he saw in his world. Jesus is way cooler than most people portray him to be. By all means explore Buddhism, but the same messages can be found within your own faith.

Well, that's just a bit offensive that you think "crackers' don't know shit about Buddhism. I'm white (and non-Buddhist), but I'm studying it in a graduate program right now with some world-reknowned scholars. I may not be a scholar yet, but I generally know what I'm talking about.

The book I recommended, What the Buddha Taught, is a good introductory work. For the record, the author Walpola Rahula was born in Sri Lanka and is a Buddhist monk.

As for Siddhattha believing in gods and goddesses: it's not a simple, cut-n-dry issue and is a source of considerable scholarly debate. It's true that deities do appear in the Pali Nikayas, but some speculate that perhaps the Buddha simply used these concepts to get his message across to the people. He was not adverse to "bending the truth" if it allowed him to reach people.

It's like the parable of the burning house in the third chapter of the Lotus Sutra. At the house of a rich man, a fire broke out and his children were trapped inside, absorbed in their games and play activities. He screamed for them to come out, but they were oblivious to his calls. So the father starts yelling that there are new carts for them to play with outside, and at once they come running. There aren't the carts that he described, but there's a much better one filled with precious jewels and stones.

This is a metaphor for the Buddha and how he transmits his message to his listeners. The father represents the Buddha, and his children (his disciples) are trapped in the burning house (samsara). The Buddha must sometimes tell them what they want to hear to lead them to a greater truth. So it's not clear whether he actually believed in gods and goddesses, or whether he was merely using them as a pedagogical tool. There are other suttas (I can look them up, if you'd like) that definitely indicate that he thought one simply shouldn't dwell on such matters (gods, soul, afterlife, etc.).

As for the Taoist goddess of compassion, are you thinking of Tara (Kuan Yin in Korean)?

That was a great description of that story lolita. I have obviously read the lotus sutra, seeing as how it may be the most important one, or maybe the sutra on a better way to catch a snake.

haha i called them crackers, well, actually i have no good reason to call them crackers. But neither do any of the people on totse for called people niggers, chinks, and spics. I know it isn't excusable, but lighten up, becuase no one seems to care how you feel if your a minority.

yes, it is debatable if buddha worshipped or believed in god's. but I strongly believe he did, you have to look at the historical context. It's like the debate on Jesus' faith. Most would assume he was a jew, because of his surroundings, his historical context.

When i talked about don't read cracker-written books on buddhism, i mean don't just go to powells or barnes&nobles and pick up some piece of shit by most westerners, if you have the selection read something asian (that includes sri-lankans and indians, many of the greatest monks are sri-lankan, in fact sri-lankan monks were some of the first to record the buddhas teachings.)

I personally think it's great that as a white person you are taking serious steps towards the understanding of my faith, what I do have a problem with is all these 12-17 year olds who are looking into it becuase it's rebellious or they just want to impress people (don't let them lie to you, many of the ones who are into it the most are into it for all the wrong, superficial reasons). and yes there are many very knowledgable western buddhist scholars, I just think you should start with the original people. It's just like if you wanted to learn about african religions, I would assume you would want to learn from an african, not a white person.

overall, I am quite impressed with your knowledge lolita, and it is great that you learned it in school.

And we are thinking of the same goddess lolita, as i said i just don't know her name by heart in different languages, just my own. (in vietnamese she is called Au Co). great response.

aTribecalledSean:

Well, thanks. And I'm not really offended by the term "cracker", I just wanted to show you that you don't have to be Asian to know about Buddhism. At the same time, I can understand your frustration when a bunch of American kids spout off about Buddhism when they don't know anything about it at all. It's something serious for you, whereas it's often more of a fad for them.

As you acknowledged, though, there are some great Western Buddhist scholars (Robert Thurman, Alan Watts, David Kalupahana, etc.).

[By the way, regarding your comment about African religions, I actually am studying them with a white professor. He's very knowledgeable, though, and lived in Africa for many years doing anthropological field work.]

To be clear, I'm actually not going to be a professor of Buddhism (although I initially wanted to be). I didn't have enough time to fulfill the language requirements. I'm in a Master's program, and I would have to learn Pali or Japanese or something similar (depending on what type of Buddhism I wanted to study) before I began my doctoral work. So I opted out, because I don't have time for language classes. I'm now planning to study religion in South America and the Caribbean because I already have some basic knowledge of Spanish. I still have a soft spot in my heart for Buddhism, though, and I read as much as I can. Some of it I learned in school; some of it I learned on my own.

As a final note: as with Jesus, it's often difficult to ascertain what the Buddha really believed at all. Neither of them wrote anything down, so all of our knowledge is coming second-hand (and quite a few years after their deaths).

Anyway, thanks for an interesting discussion. Religion is my favorite subject, but there usually aren't too many worthwhile threads in this forum.



[This message has been edited by Lolita (edited 08-02-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Lolita:

aTribecalledSean:

Anyway, thanks for an interesting discussion. Religion is my favorite subject, but there usually aren't too many worthwhile threads in this forum.

[This message has been edited by Lolita (edited 08-02-2004).]

Word

As for Buddha worshipping Gods and etc.

As he had many followers who were ex Hindu it was easier for him to explain his teaching making analogy with stuff like Mara, which was quite symbolic.

It isn't necessary that he worshipped Gods or demons or believed in them.

If his followers were ex-Christians he would use the word "Satan".

All and all it is used to explain similar things. It was easier to understand for ex-Hindu a term he had already met before than to learn something similar, but called completely different.

quote:Originally posted by prince charles:

You cant even spell it (buddhaism)

you sir, are a retard. it is BUDDHISM. no "a".

I believe the name of the compassionate person discussed earlier is Avaloketisvara in Pali. On another note, the bodhisattva of transcendental wisdom was Manjusri.

Sniper, there is a difference between worshipping gods and knowing they eist and interacting with them. The Buddha of course knew of the gods and did encounter them- this is not a theistic religion though, because theism, as it is being used in this conversation anyway, means the worship of a deity, and the belief that one is an emanation or somehow inferior to him.



Buddhism does not teach that there are no gods, just that the gods are like any other mortal being- a relationship with them is another attachmentand that one on a higher path should beware a fixation on. There are gods, but they are not authority figures.

quote:Originally posted by Spirit of '22:

Sniper, there is a difference between worshipping gods and knowing they eist and interacting with them. The Buddha of course knew of the gods and did encounter them- this is not a theistic religion though, because theism, as it is being used in this conversation anyway, means the worship of a deity, and the belief that one is an emanation or somehow inferior to him.



Buddhism does not teach that there are no gods, just that the gods are like any other mortal being- a relationship with them is another attachmentand that one on a higher path should beware a fixation on. There are gods, but they are not authority figures.



Well put.

Reading will be like cutting with a sharp knife.