Ever hear someone say " My God given rights?"

Well, for the record, God only grants us Humans 2 rights....

1. To Die.

2. To face his Judgement.

quote:Hbr 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Thats it, anything else is a Luxury. Luxuries are not doled out, they have to be fought for, or earned. This is the Devils World 2Cr 4:4 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/2Cr/2Cr004.html#top) as Biblically defined:

Kosmos(Greek for "The World"), Summary: In the sense of the present world-system, the ethically bad sense of the word, refers to the "order," "arrangement," under which Satan has organized the world of unbelieving mankind upon his cosmic principle of force, greed, selfishness, ambition, and pleasure. This world- system is imposing and powerful with armies and fleets; is often outwardly religious, scientific, cultured, and elegant; but, seething with national and commercial rivalries and ambitions, is upheld in any real crisis only by armed force, and is dominated by Satanic principles.

The Bottom Line is...youre are not entitled to anything in the Devils World.

...and now we see why those who enjoy personal rights prefer secular governments.

quote:Originally posted by Optimus Prime:

...and now we see why those who enjoy personal rights prefer secular governments.

Secular Governments have killed and repressed Human Rights worse than any Religious institution. Read about Communism and Stalin. I read a book ,this book... <A HREF="http://www.lethallaws.com/covers.jpg">http://www.lethallaws.com/covers.jpg" width="90" height="90 (http://www.lethallaws.com/covers.jpg" width="90" height="90)</A>

They give a chart of all the victims of Genocide...22 million in the USSR and 21 Million for Communist China...but thats a discussion for another thread.

Lets not forget it was White/Protestant/Straight/Males who fought bled for our rights....it was their vision of a free society. Yea, Yea, these rights didnt apply to Indians and Niggers... Blah, Blah,Blah....

God himself does not Garuantee you an easy life.

Are you saying white protestant straight males are solely responsible for human rights? Sorry, I didn't really understand that last post. That book looks like utter biased bullshit.

Suuuure, gun control laws cause genocide. Just look at all the genocide we have in Western Europe http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif).

"God given rights" is a figure of speech referring to the fact that we have toem from when we are born. When something bad happens to someone I sometimes say "must just be bad karma" but it's not like I'm a Hindu. It just sounds better than "UN-Given rights".

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

Secular Governments have killed and repressed Human Rights worse than any Religious institution. Read about Communism and Stalin. I read a book ,this book... &lt;A HREF="http://www.lethallaws.com/covers.jpg"&gt; <A HREF="http://www.lethallaws.com/covers.jpg">http://www.lethallaws.com/covers.jpg" width="90" height="90 (http://www.lethallaws.com/covers.jpg" width="90" height="90)</A> &lt;/A&gt;

They give a chart of all the victims of Genocide...22 million in the USSR and 21 Million for Communist China...but thats a discussion for another thread.

Lets not forget it was White/Protestant/Straight/Males who fought bled for our rights....it was their vision of a free society. Yea, Yea, these rights didnt apply to Indians and Niggers... Blah, Blah,Blah....

God himself does not Garuantee you an easy life.



So what you are saying is that less people have been killed in the name of whatever religion?

Idiot...

before this century there was NO secular states. at all. none. not one.

every person killed in every war, uprising and rebellion before then was caused by religion. that comes nowhere near the 40million in the two examples you mentioned.

what about witch burnings? spanish inquisition anyone? crusades? the egyptions? aztec sacrafices? the thirty years war (that one claimed 6-13 million people)? the constant tribal wars in africa? ireland? 2000 years of middle east oppresion and fighting? the spanish and the romans and all of thier naughtiness?

somehow i think those few examples off the top of my head leave your two ISOLATED examples out to dry. that is a few hundred times more deaths than your little examples. all of those over religion.

don't you say that secular states have done worse than religious governments, cause you are obviously talking out your fucking arse.

and "god given right" is a figment of speech you knob. it implies universal rights that are expected in any halfway decent society. no one thinks that your imaginary god is going to come down and enforce anything.

quote:Originally posted by RAOVQ:

every person killed in every war, uprising and rebellion before then was caused by religion. that comes nowhere near the 40million in the two examples you mentioned.

All Wars are about Final Authority and land. Who gets to tax who, who gets to say who does what where. Thats what wars are about. This Cheap little argument of yours is popular in Liberal circles, it legitimizes their Right-Wing hate.But not very accurate Historically.

quote:what about witch burnings? spanish inquisition anyone? crusades?

If you are gonna put all Christians in the same bunch, Im going to put all Liberals in the same bunch as Communists, because, both groups are Socialist sharing the same goals but disagreeing on how to attain them.

Your statement quoted above is about Catholics. Catholics are Killers! They always have been, and always will be, especially when they are in the majority.

quote:the egyptions? aztec sacrafices? the thirty years war (that one claimed 6-13 million people)? the constant tribal wars in africa? ireland? 2000 years of middle east oppresion and fighting? the spanish and the romans and all of thier naughtiness?

None of these Wars have anything to do with land? Especially the Romans.

The Idea of Blaming Human Greed on Religion sounds like "Religious" dogma from the Left.





[This message has been edited by Sniper Piper (edited 06-24-2004).]

You people are making me loose faith in humanity, and that is sad. What's the point in arguing over a figure of speech?

Besides that the original topic is just...blasphemous to use a word sniper piper will understand (hopefully.)

You say that "God" gives you the right to die and the right to be judged. So what happened to life? Then you say that this world is the devil's world. Now you seem to be a believer in the christian God and you are taking for granted the gift he gave you? BLASPHEMER!

The concept you raise is life-denying and takes any thread of purpose or meaning in this world this life and throwing it into death which might just be death. How could your God forgive you for wasting such a precious gift as life?

you just left out the aztec sacrifice mentioned by RAOVQ. if they weren't clearly caused by religion... http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

the crusades were motivated by religion, no way around that.

and these really are not the only examples. don't get me wrong, whoever wants to be religious should have the freedom to do so. but religion should have nothing to say in politics! no way!(above examples show why) remember the pope recently tried to tell politicians worldwide to deny homosexuals the right to marry? luckily my country's government doesn't take this sort of 'command' from him.

by the way, i was raised catholic. i'm not a killer. you contradict yourself. be careful about who you accuse of what!

Cougar

quote:Originally posted by I_Like_Traffic_Lights:

You people are making me loose faith in humanity, and that is sad. What's the point in arguing over a figure of speech?

"Mans inhumanity to Man" is one of the stupid little quotes you get from Liberals. Liberals try to paint Man in a good light with words like "Humanity", its an attempt to say Humans are basically good, but sometimes we slip up. But, Gods opinion and mine are more sensible, Humanity is basically evil....

quote:Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually

If Liberals/Socialists had the right take on this subject, we would not need.....

Governments, Laws, Police, Locks, Fences, Guns....etc.



quote:Besides that the original topic is just...blasphemous to use a word sniper piper will understand (hopefully.)

Blasphemous? How? You lost me on this one.

If everyone only realised that people are essentially evil we wouldn't need police anymore?

How does that work?

Oh yeah, like how Catholics were killed by the Protestant majority, or how a bunch of Catholics snuck people away from the Nazis. Pure and simple, some people are religious and good, while others are religious and evil. People can be Atheist, and good, or Atheist, and bad. The Protestants even though they came later killed just as much as the Catholics and sometimes collaborated with each other.

Let's all forget about the Catholics who died for this country by building it, fighting in WWI, WWII, Korea, and other wars.

Sniper Piper:

Lets not forget it was White/Protestant/Straight/Males who fought bled for our rights....it was their vision of a free society. Yea, Yea, these rights didnt apply to Indians and Niggers... Blah, Blah,Blah....

---------------------------

Acutally Benjamin Franklin wanted to have those rights for Indians because he saw Indians as equals. The whole of the Constitution is based on Indian Laws. I guess because my great grandparents mixed with the Cherokee I'm beyond redemption? I'm also a potato nigger in your eyes. You sound like your Christian Identity White Supremacist. Catholicism, and Protestantism are not Christianity. Christianity is Christianity.

I_Like_Traffic_Lights:

You say that "God" gives you the right to die and the right to be judged. So what happened to life? Then you say that this world is the devil's world. Now you seem to be a believer in the christian God and you are taking for granted the gift he gave you? BLASPHEMER!

---------------------

He sounds like an Albegense. It's his right. I don't have to like it. "Satan" walks the world, he doesn't own it.

Sniper Piper:

"Mans inhumanity to Man" is one of the stupid little quotes you get from Liberals. Liberals try to paint Man in a good light with words like "Humanity", its an attempt to say Humans are basically good, but sometimes we slip up. But, Gods opinion and mine are more sensible, Humanity is basically evil....

---------------------------

No, "God" created us in "God's" image. God is good, we're incomplete. Stepping beyond self-actualization is what Anarchists talk about. Jesus was against self-actualization. Plenty of Conservatives use that quote too.

I'm an ex-Catholic. I'm not a killer, I'm not fond of religion but I don't want to ban it. Catholics are the single largest branch of Christianity and they're not killing currently.

[This message has been edited by Keltoiberserker (edited 06-25-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

Ever hear someone say " My God given rights?"

Kosmos(Greek for "The World"), Summary: In the sense of the present world-system, the ethically bad sense of the word, refers to the "order," "arrangement," under which Satan has organized the world of unbelieving mankind upon his cosmic principle of force, greed, selfishness, ambition, and pleasure. This world- system is imposing and powerful with armies and fleets; is often outwardly religious, scientific, cultured, and elegant; but, seething with national and commercial rivalries and ambitions, is upheld in any real crisis only by armed force, and is dominated by Satanic principles.



Christian Anarchism for you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_anarchism

more on it http://www.hccentral.com/eller12/part1.html

I said blasphemy because you take life (the gift "God" gave you) and complain about it calling it "evil". What life sucks because people don't have the same views as you? SUCK IT UP! You are taking for granted the moments of life that slip by unused far-too-often because of views like yours that this world is too evil to get your hands dirty in, that there's something better for you and YOU ALONE. Cocky, self-righteous, holier-then-thou bastard. You've got skeletons in your closets same as everybody, that doesn't mean this world is in the devil's hands. That doesn't mean this life isn't worth living.

The way you depict life is a life not worth living, which (now I talk like this so you can understand) GOD would say SHAME ON YOU! "He" gave you life so that you may LIVE IT. DUMBASS! But then again, I'm a part of the devil in the devil's world aren't I? I'm leading you off the path by trying to convince you to *gasp* LIVE A FUCKING DAY OF YOUR LIFE!!! There's simple beauty all around you, take a look around and for once not be so vain as to assume there's something BETTER for you and you alone.

THIS IS HEAVEN IF YOU WANT IT TO BE!!!!

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

Secular Governments have killed and repressed Human Rights worse than any Religious institution.



The American government is secular.

Not that that refutes anything you've claimed http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif).

Religious governments are reqponisble for quite the number of atrocities. Just look at the taliban and all these nonsecular governments over in the east performing gross human rights violations.

quote:The American government is secular.

Not that that refutes anything you've claimed http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif).

No, we havent done anything comparitivily close to what Stalin/Pol Pot/Mao....yet...

Stalin 22 million victims attributed to him. He purposedly starved his own people in submission. Afterwards remarked

"You have to break a few eggs to make an Omelate"



quote:

Religious governments are reqponisble for quite the number of atrocities. Just look at the taliban and all these nonsecular governments over in the east performing gross human rights violations.

This statement is true especially with, Catholics. How Catholics Convert is to work your way up in Government and start passing laws in favor of your Church, and the next thing you know, you have Church State. Then you squeeze out everybody else, by any means possible.

But this cheap argument that "Religions" are the cause of everthing bad in our Society, is like "The Pot calling the Kettle Black!" Secularists are killers to!

the only god given right that we as humans have is to do whatever the fuck we want to.

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

Secularists are killers to!



It wasn't the fact that the leaders were secular that caused all the death. It was primarily based out of the political ideaology.



[This message has been edited by Dark_Magneto (edited 06-26-2004).]

quote:But this cheap argument that "Religions" are the cause of everthing bad in our Society, is like "The Pot calling the Kettle Black!" Secularists are killers to!

Religion can be a motivation for violence and human rights violation. Lack of religion cannot. Simple as that. Secularists may commit human rights violations, but it's not because they're secular, it's because they're bastards. On the other hand, religion can be the excuse for (the crusades), and cause of (pretty much everyhting tat goes on in the Middle East) wars/violence/rights violations/etc.

Don't go picking on individual religions, it's all the same. Catholics are as bad as Protestants are as bad as Muslims are as bad as Jews are as bad as Atheists, but atheists don't have the (apparent) orders from some higher being or (apparent) warrent from some higher being.

How many times did I state my point then? 3? Silly me.

quote:Originally posted by ilbastardoh:

the only god given right that we as humans have is to do whatever the fuck we want to.

Amen