because paganism is older than catholicism, so it could have been twisted round more but the whole story of jesus thing, he could have just been some crazy guy so which is more believable?

A PAGAN

quote:Originally posted by freee:

because paganism is older than catholicism, so it could have been twisted round more but the whole story of jesus thing, he could have just been some crazy guy so which is more believable?

A PAGAN

Both have been twisted greatly from their original structures, and the pagan faiths have influenced the catholic religion as well.

In the end though, I didn't find either believable enough to make me follow blindly. I guess I'll just grow up to be a sour old man with no reason left to live. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Modern paganism has very little in common with the ancient type.

I'd say that modern paganism is more believable than Catholicism, as it makes fewer claims about reality. Doctrine like transubstantiation (when you eat communion wafers, they physically turn into the body of Christ) just make me laugh.

Plus nature's kewl.

Dude, Paganism isn't a religion, so it's hard to compare it with Catholocism, which is.

Paganism is a kind of group name for pre-Christian religions. Often they are nature-centred, but not always. Some of the ones most popular at the moment are Wicca*, Asatru, and various types of Druidism and Shamanism. The label also includes mixtures and hodge-podges of various per-Christian religious ideas.

*Wicca isn't actualy a pre-Christian religion, but it's (loosely) based on pre-Christian relgions. Also, many people calling themselves Pagans are essentailly Wiccans.

It should be noted that Asatru-ar prefer to be referred to as Heathens, because, unlike other modern 'pagan' religions, they did not make up new parts of their religion. It is a continuation of the ancient traditions and rites.

Were you to time travel back to the sixth century and observe an althing back in that time, it wouldn't be much different from an althing held now, in 2004.

Catholisiscim. But Purusisism is the only true religion. http://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum15/HTML/002726.html

ok, heres the deal......most things ppl find on paganism is about wicca......and wicca is a load of bullshit for winny little girls.....real paganism, or traditional paganism is what christianity is, in many ways, based on, and i will prove my point.

first off..in the pagan religion....traditional paganism... the goddess Hel, is the goddess of suffering and pain and is said to rule a sort of underworld for tourtured souls...this is where christians derived that HELL is a place of suffering.

next...the days of the week are all based on pagan gods,, as well as the months of a year.

many holidays are even based on paganism.

to say paganism is not a religion is to say christianity is not one either, though christianity is a load of shit. amen

Monkeyswillflyoutofmyassism.

quote:Originally posted by drake of the flame:

ok, heres the deal......most things ppl find on paganism is about wicca......and wicca is a load of bullshit for winny little girls.....real paganism, or traditional paganism is what christianity is, in many ways, based on, and i will prove my point.

While I enjoy your enthusiasm, you're wrong.



quote:first off..in the pagan religion....traditional paganism...

First mistake. There is no such thing as 'paganism.' It's a catch-all Christians created for any non-Big 3(Big 3 being Judaism, Christianity, or Islam) faiths.

quote: the goddess Hel, is the goddess of suffering and pain and is said to rule a sort of underworld for tourtured souls...this is where christians derived that HELL is a place of suffering.

Hel is the place non-warriors who have not been bad people but who have not died in glory on the battlefield go when they die. It's said to be quite peaceful and serene.



quote:next...the days of the week are all based on pagan gods,, as well as the months of a year.

The days of the week are all based on Norse Gods. Well, Norse and Anglo-Saxon gods, since the Anglo-Saxons called Odin Woden, hence Wednesday, Woden's day.

Tuesday, Tyr's Day, Thursday, Thor's Day, Friday, Frey's Day, and so on.

The only exception being Saturday, which is based on Saturn, a Roman God.

Then you have Sunday, Sun Day, and Monday, Moon Day.

The months, however, are mainly Roman, since we use the Gregorian calendar. What do you think August is named after? or July? Or October(octo being 8), and Decemeber(Deca, 10?)

quote: many holidays are even based on paganism.

True. The holiday of Yul had many of it's concepts stolen for Christmas.

That's where 'Yuletide Greeting' comes from, folks. Yep. A bunch of pagans. Guess where they got the idea of the Christmas tree, too?

quote:to say paganism is not a religion is to say christianity is not one either, though christianity is a load of shit. amen

Paganism isn't a religion.

Look at the people who call themselves 'pagans,' and you will not find one religion tying them all together.

quote:Originally posted by The_Rabbi:

Paganism isn't a religion.

Look at the people who call themselves 'pagans,' and you will not find one religion tying them all together.

There is Norse mythology, and there is Greek mythology, and there are lots of others, and they make up paganism or heathenism but they sure are not one religion, as you are aptly remarking.

Wicca has been created somewhen about mid-last century and evidently cannot be assimilated with ancient paganism.

In conclusion, wrong and fuzzy ideas about paganism are abounding. The real thing may be somewhat less romantic than expected to be.

quote:Originally posted by 256:

Dude, Paganism isn't a religion, so it's hard to compare it with Catholocism, which is.

Paganism is a kind of group name for pre-Christian religions. Often they are nature-centred, but not always. Some of the ones most popular at the moment are Wicca*, Asatru, and various types of Druidism and Shamanism. The label also includes mixtures and hodge-podges of various per-Christian religious ideas.

*Wicca isn't actualy a pre-Christian religion, but it's (loosely) based on pre-Christian relgions. Also, many people calling themselves Pagans are essentailly Wiccans.



Dude, shamanism isn't a religion--UNLESS you are talking about Shamanism, which is the religion of the Chukchee tribe, which has mostly died out, in Siberia. As practiced everywhere else in the world, shamanism is a type of spiritual healing. (I know because 1, I am a shaman, and 2, I taught a course on it at Western New Mexico U.)

quote:ok, heres the deal......most things ppl find on paganism is about wicca......and wicca is a load of bullshit for winny little girls.....real paganism, or traditional paganism is what christianity is, in many ways, based on, and i will prove my point.

first off..in the pagan religion....traditional paganism... the goddess Hel, is the goddess of suffering and pain and is said to rule a sort of underworld for tourtured souls...this is where christians derived that HELL is a place of suffering.

next...the days of the week are all based on pagan gods,, as well as the months of a year.

many holidays are even based on paganism.

Wicca is a religion, but it's a pity that 95% of wiccans don't practice it (they just read new-age bollocks and call themselves wiccans). Wicca also isn't pagan - it's neo-pagan.

Likewise, there is no 'traditional paganism', because paganism was a catch-all for any small-time local religion.

Hel is a goddess, yes - in Norse Mythology.

And the days of the week aren't christianity! Seriously - since when has the calendar been a part of any religion excepting the Mayans?!

Hel isn't a bad broad, either.

Well, depends on which half of her you're talking. I wouldn't mind the normal half, but the decaying half is a bit of a turn off...

quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:

As practiced everywhere else in the world, shamanism is a type of spiritual healing.

It's also a fashion.

And a part of the New Age hodgepodge.

quote:Originally posted by drake of the flame:

real paganism, or traditional paganism is what christianity is, in many ways, based on, and i will prove my point.

I don't think Christianity is based on paganism. It's actually absurd to say such a thing. Christianity is based on Jesus Christ's life and teachings.

Even if a number of supernatural beings of older belief systems have found their place in the Catholic and other christian churches - although they have new meanings, roles and names assigned to them - christianity is still based on Christ.



An example would be Pan, the Greek god of nature. This horned and goat-legged god was the model for the appearance of the Christian devil.

[This message has been edited by Uncus (edited 07-02-2004).]

Uncus has a point, but then so do all of you. The basis for Christianity will always be christ. He's the one whose teachings inspired the entire belief system. However, many (if not most) of the christian saints, holidays, rituals, etc. have been taken from old pagan religious beliefs. Eg, the saint Bridget, from Ireland, is theorized by historians and theologians to have come forth from the celtic goddess Brigid.

In my opinion, neither faith is more legitimate. Sure, christianity currently has a greater following than all of the neo-pagan religions combined, and sure, paganism (in its ancient form) has been around for perhaps millenia before judaism, much less christianity, ever existed. However, in the end, unless you're a particularly intolerable person, its the mere existence of faith, and not the choice of religion that matters. It's my belief that faith saves you, and not whatever gods to which you pray.



[This message has been edited by Furyion (edited 07-03-2004).]

the roman catholic church stole from other religions then destroyed them... but catholicism is different from christianity, alot of churches are christian but aren't catholic... dont confuse the two, christianity is about the teachings of christ, catholicism is a stupid church made by roman emperors who thought they could use it for political means.. .

ur all right, sorry about that, i ment to say that, some parts of christianity are based on nordic and other pagan belief systems

IF YOU DON'T WANT TO READ THE WHOLE THING JUST SKIP TO THE BOTTOM

Christianity started out as a mixture of primarily Hellenic, Judaic, and Persian beliefs. Eventually it split into different sects the first being Arians, and Catholics. Manichaen Dualism, and Mithraism both existed at the time and were somewhat assimilated and then oppressed. Eventually Christianity would be adopted as the state religion, Arianism was popular among the Germanic people on the borders of the falling empire. Catholicism, and Christianity in general assimilates local deities, and manner of worship to appease or to further the conversion of the people there. Christianity was first popular in Greece and Armenia. The Christian god is often painted as a figure similar to Zeus/Jupiter.

December 25th was Deus Sol Invictus. Feast of the inconquerable sun. That day is also a solar holiday in other places, the Germanic people with Yule, and also for some Kelts as well. Eventually the split would come in the church, from this came Protestantism. Santa Claus had been adapted from Germanic/Norse Gods like Freyr.



So bacially Christianity in general assimilated then destroyed Pagan and Heathen religions. A history of which goes back to 100 A.D.

[This message has been edited by Keltoiberserker (edited 07-05-2004).]