Warning: Probably going to end up long, and probably going to make you think a little. Don't read if you don't feel like doing either.

As a person who feels that wisdom is everywhere, I have come to realize that messengers of God (or the moon or satan or Baphomet or that Sigma guy from the Mega Man games; which diety is not the point) exist, and have walked among us, and some are walking among us right now.

What do I mean by "Messenger of God"? Am I referring to the people who bang on your door every Sunday while you're sleeping late, and insist on pushing forth their message? No. I'm talking about normal human beings like you and I who, without even knowing that, are imbued with a usually-specific sort of divine wisdom from their higher creator, without their knowledge, and sent to share it with us all. They have no knowledge of their divine status, they don't know everything, they aren't perfect: They are still human. That's why not everyone understands their messages and why they sin and make bad choices like the rest of us. I feel that Jim Morrison is an example of one of these messengers: He, through his music, made us THINK - made us realize the importance of never taking things as they are, and seeking new learning, of opening your mind - The Doors of perception - and seeking knowledge and understanding and enlightenment. He also kept us grounded and made sure we knew he was still human, with songs like "Light My Fire" - but he didn't know he was doing that. Albert Einstein was another: He enlightened us, even though the things he tried his hardest to comprehend are incomprehensible by us humans: He made us realize that, and he did possess what was at the time knowledge we didn't know we could ever understand. Roger Waters and David Gilmour (Frontman and guitarist/sometimes frontman, respectively) of Pink Floyd - they have the ability to PERFECTLY exemplify emotion and, for me, emotional comprehension that I can never seem to word myself. It's a sort of divine empathy. Listen to "Hey You" on the Wall - the guitar solo: That, to me, is not just a guitar: It's a voice, a pained voice, a lost voice. How the fuck could they relate it so perfectly? Trent Reznor is another - he relates the same emotion, on just a slightly more "imperfect human" level: He gets pissed. He hurts. He gets lost. His music exemplifies that perfectly.

This is just something that is, for me, true. There's little tiny iterations of some higher diety everywhere; there's people he/she/it sends to teach us specific lessons at specific times, and makes sure we can understand them, because they are human. Just a theory. Does this make sense to anyone else? Who else do you feel is/was a messenger?

Sure, you see it everywhere. So many films and songs and all sorts of stuff contribute towards better understanding. From basic concepts to deepers ones, it all leads in the same direction.

I understand where you're coming from, but I don't necessarily view them as messangers from God. More like someone who woke up first after a big party. Sure they'll be lazy for a little bit, hell they just woke up, they'll smoke a cig maybe snatch one from one of their sleeping buddies. After a while they'll start nudging their friends "dude wake up, we're headed to dennies". Turn music up real loud, slap someone, or just blow a hit of the ganj' in their faces. Whatever it takes to awake your snoozing friends.

^ http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

Messengers from god and messengers of god are two different things in a very subtle and precise why.

I agree. But, I'd really have to think about it to come up with a solid one.

I know I have a friend who is a huge Tool fan, and he'd say Maynard speaks to him in that kind of way.

As for myself, I'd have to go with Bob Dylan. But, as I said, I'll need time to come up with a good one.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

I'd have to go with Bob Dylan.



So would I, I think he's more of a poet than a singer. He's a genius.

You just need the right antena.

Though I can catch both Mr. Dylan and Tool, ahh, I'll do it tomorrow

edit-

I should have read it to being with, yay for Pink Floyd too! Though for me it's Syd, even above every other musican, that guys IS me, or so it can seem. And perhaps just a little above him - Jack Kerouac, all the weakness, sadness, genius(or delusions there of) strangeness, the whole mother thing. Ahh Jack.

Some people I think, at certain moments in time, in certain moods, frames of mind, can bring somethings into this word that others cannot. As I said with the antena, it depends how you tune yourself, what kind of power your using, and where it's gonna go.

You can be a warrior, poet, scientist, whatever you want.

I read something once about a bunch of people doing crossword puzzles, getting them done pretty normaly, they were all old puzzles, new to them we can imagine, old to the world, but then they were given new ones that nobody had ever seen before, and suddenly all began to struggle much more, this was repeated a few times with the same results. It was like they could easily draw on the answers that a lot of people new, but it was much harder for them in the other respect.

I'm not sure, but I kind of remember this being rufuted in some way, the whole thing was uneven, but I'm not sure about that.

Then you've people that have a particual experience, like an extention of the genius that can pull down truly great art, but takes this to it's furtherest end and seemingly goes right ot the core of everything, and nothing somehow.

Being Nirvana, and so on. It would seem that the 'person' doesn't come back from this, but they bring what ever it is back with them, like the art I guess, but resideds within them.

So here I would count Jesus, Moses, probably all the big names, but also many Saints, and probably countless peoples who barely anybody knows of.



[This message has been edited by evolove (edited 07-03-2004).]

Interesting side note; most of these messengers of "God" either die young or go completely crazy. Like some examples given with Jim Morrison (died), Kurt Cobain (Died), Syd Barret (balls-to-walls-insane), Roger Waters (nuttier then an outhouse rat).

Then there's many others from many different genres. Hendrix, Edgar Alan Poe, Tupac, Jesus, Malcom X, MLK, Joan of Arc, etc. etc. etc. Not sure if it's a coincidence or significant, but note worthy none-the-less

*edit*note worthy not not worthy.

[This message has been edited by I_Like_Traffic_Lights (edited 07-04-2004).]

You could tell Tupac Shakur was very intelligent. Yea some of his music was "gangsta" rap but you have to realize that's how he grew up, and society will rub off on you.

In his music, he'd talk about the ghetto, problems with politics, teen pregnancy problems, problems with the world.

Some of the songs you can just feel his pain and anger.

Cared so much for his community that he made up a code of law for gang bangers. He knew he couldnt stop people from being in gangs so he made rules.

Some of them state:

Dont hurt the innocent

Dont hurt the kids

etc.. etc..

He had a lot of followers. He was smart, background was with the Black Panthers. He was born in prison.

Think the goverment saw how powerful he could be if he wanted to change some things so they had him off.

Watch Tupac Resurrection, it will enlighten you. He isnt all about the gangsta stuff. Even in that movie he says the reason his music is so rough sometimes is that he's the spoke person for the ghetto.

even made THUG LIFE which stands for "THE HATE YOU GAVE LITTLE INFANTS FUCKS EVERYONE"

which basically means the hate you gave little black males eventually fucks everyone.

also put a new meaning to "nigga" never ignorant getting goals accomplished.

when im not as high i'll come back and reiterate a little bit.

Did anyone mention bob marley? He was sure in tune with life.

Don't worry......about a thing......cuz every little thing......is gonna be alright......

One Good thing about music......when it hits you you feel noooooo pain.

How could I forget Marley.

Rock on Beany, rock on.

And what about the films.

Here are a few of my interpretation:

Fight club - destruction of the ego (Amongst other things).

Matrix - The physical world being an illusion, and realising that you are "the one" being enlightenment (amogst many other things.

American Beauty - The beauty of god that lies in everything, if only you just look.

Fifth Element - The battle between good and evil. Love being the force that finally conquers evil.

Star Wars - Similarities to buddism and other Indian religeons. The force, you could say, being god and the power of belief and knowledge you use to tap into it (jedi powers).

[This message has been edited by ---Beany--- (edited 07-18-2004).]

Beany, I think you should check out this film sometime : http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/spring_summer_fall_winter_and_spring/

I think music is such a powerful messenger because it is a good meme replicator, and can usually come out ahead in the battle of what stays in your immediate memory and what gets shuffled past. We remember times, eras, events and cultures by music. I personally can relate just about every.single.life.experience. to a particular song, and if at the Great End my life was played back before me, it would be almost a given that a "soundtrack" accompany it.

Music can change moods, illicit emotions and bring back memories in a flash. If these composers are truly Messengers, they are messengers for the times, not for an all-powerful, all-knowing creator. I think music is a wonderful way to decipher the true characteristics of a particular genre. It speaks the truth, and reflects the emotions of a particular sect of listeners or diehard fans. The following artists have spoken the loudest to me:

-Syd Barrett, Pink Floyd

-Trent Reznor, NIN

- Percy Sledge

- Serj Tankian, System of a Down

- Johnny Cash

- Al Jorgensen, Ministry

Anyone ever notice the serene, yet chaotic "rapture" that comes across people at large music festivals or concerts? There have been studies on the psychology of music, and Phillip Dorrell is practicing a new scientific approach called the superstimulus theory that explores the perception of music notes on the diatonic scale. It claims that the study of music is part biology, and the author states: "Music exists because people create it, perform it and listen to it. People are living organisms, and biology is the study of living organisms. ' .

A full synopsis of this is here: http://whatismusic.info/

A couple of these have already been mentioned.. but what the hell...

Fight Club- Tyler Durden is such a messianic figure.... in a strange nihilistic way. The whole movie just seems to speak of a smiliar concpet to the 'kingdom of heaven'.

Tony Joe White

Bad Religion and Pennywise which is odd, as both these bands are very atheistic

Black Hawk Down- for some reason i really connected with the way nihilism and meaning where somehow linked in this movie..

Whoever took this picture: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v366/headoffatness/Cross-Unity2.jpg

U2, in the biggest boldest type you can get. Bono's lyrics and their tunes.... what can i say?