(Yes, I know there are a few).

Well, basically, my Mum has been sick for a while, 20 months, and is putting her faith in God. Because I told her I don't believe, she gave me a pamphlet on why I should believe in God. But there are a number of paradoxes that I would challenge any of you to answer.

1. The Mentally Retarded: They cannot comprehend belief in God, let alone living by Christian principles, so what happens to them?

2. Indoctrination: How can God send children to Hell if they've never heard of Christianity before and been indoctrinated into believing that their religion is the right one.

3. Other Religions: Are several billion people going to die just because they have been brought up (tied in with Indoctrination) to be Buddhist or Hindu?

4. Fate: God knows the future, past and present, how then can we have free will?

5. Good: God states that he is 'good', but is he really? If he is the ultimate being, then he is simply saying that 'good' is the way in which he acts, however, if not, then there is an even higher being that decrees what 'good' truly is.

6. Before: What happened before God made his existence known to Man (that is, what man interpreted as his existence).

Can anyone answer these questions/paradoxes?

sure god doesnt exist

i hope your mom gets better and tell her to stay away from christian scientists.

Though I am not a christian I can give you the answer I think they would give you. They don't make alot of sence but to quote my good friend Sniper Piper God is Racist, Sexist, and Homonausiated..

quote:Originally posted by Slurm:



1. The Mentally Retarded: They cannot comprehend belief in God, let alone living by Christian principles, so what happens to them?

2. Indoctrination: How can God send children to Hell if they've never heard of Christianity before and been indoctrinated into believing that their religion is the right one.

3. Other Religions: Are several billion people going to die just because they have been brought up (tied in with Indoctrination) to be Buddhist or Hindu?





If it were up to God EVERYONE would go to hell.

They think that Jesus died for our sins and will only hold his end of the bargin if you follow "his" religion.

quote:Originally posted by Slurm:



4. Fate: God knows the future, past and present, how then can we have free will?



If you read the Bible you find this hard to belive. If you still belive this it lead you to the conclution that God is an asshole.

ie. He knew that Eve would eat the fruit but still left it out and got mad at her when she did.

quote:Originally posted by Slurm:



5. Good: God states that he is 'good', but is he really? If he is the ultimate being, then he is simply saying that 'good' is the way in which he acts, however, if not, then there is an even higher being that decrees what 'good' truly is.



I sugest you take that one up with a minster. His answer will be interesting in the fact that you won't get a good one. Though the Bible does't rule out the posibility of other Gods. There are several time where God eludes to the posibility that he is not alone. They could be tranlation errors though.

quote:Originally posted by Slurm:



6. Before: What happened before God made his existence known to Man (that is, what man interpreted as his existence).





The Bible makes it out to seem like Adam was not around for more than a few minutes before God made his presents known.

Sorry I can't give you good answer but I hope that helps.

you'll find my answers under the questions. i hope your mom gets well soon, let her know that there is more to life than religion.

quote:Originally posted by Slurm:

1. The Mentally Retarded: They cannot comprehend belief in God, let alone living by Christian principles, so what happens to them?

-- The handicapped have good in that they are totally innocent to the immoralities of religion. They don't have to deal with the bullshit like the rest of us do.

3. Other Religions: Are several billion people going to die just because they have been brought up (tied in with Indoctrination) to be Buddhist or Hindu?

--christianities dislike and utter contempt for other religions just shows the narrow-minded bullshit for what it really is. A self-absorbed cult of liars.

4. Fate: God knows the future, past and present, how then can we have free will?

-- there is no fate. whatever happens, happens. it is not destined to happen, there is no piece of writing that says it will or will not. no one(even god[if there is one]) can know these things.

5. Good: God states that he is 'good', but is he really? If he is the ultimate being, then he is simply saying that 'good' is the way in which he acts, however, if not, then there is an even higher being that decrees what 'good' truly is.

-- if god is good, why does he let his "children" be intolerant to others? Why does he kill? why does he make bad things happen to truly good people?

[/B]



[This message has been edited by Solar Absolute (edited 07-04-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by MasterPython:



ie. He knew that Eve would eat the fruit but still left it out and got mad at her when she did.



I'm not sure if this is a good example but we have 3 dogs, (great dane, husky/Lab mix, chihuahua). The only dog that i have not been able to train so far in my life, is the chihuahua. Last night it peed in the house. I know that the lack of training is the reason that it doesnt scratch at the door or bark to let us know its need to relieve itself. Even though i know that it is really my fault (because of the training thing), it does not stop me from getting "loudly mad" at the dog. I caught it and put it outside (in the rain).

So, if God told Eve "do not to eat from that tree or there will be consequences", was He really "mad" at her, or was He just following through with His statement.

Sure, He knew she would eat it. Why He put the tree there in the first place, I dont know, but I'm sure He had His reasons.

I can see your side but I have other arguments from the Bible that show that God is not all powerful. But they hinge on the fact that God can be held to the same standards as people are. That is the normal answer I get.

quote:Originally posted by Slurm:

Can anyone answer these questions/paradoxes?

Can you answer me this question?

If your mum was sick wouldn't it be better to pretend you believe in god, to give her some extra comfort?

If you don't have faith in god then maybe she'll start doubting aswell. I think she needs to be believing in God at this time.

[This message has been edited by ---Beany--- (edited 07-04-2004).]

The bible is full of contradictions, mistakes, and outright lies. Since god hasnt come down to anyone in the past 1950 years or so i'd say its pretty much bullshit. Now if god came down tomorrow and said "YO BELIEVE IN ME" and did something fancy then i'll take back all that i say. Here are just a few contradictions in the bible which is the sole authority for many Christian sects.

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

- John 3:13

... and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

- 2 Kings 2:11

I and my father are one.

- John 10:30

... I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

- John 14:28

[Jesus was the speaker in both of these quotes]

Thou shalt not kill

- Exodus 20:13

Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side... and slay every man his brother...

- Exodus 32:27

For by grace are ye saved through faith... not of works.

- Ephesians 2:8-9

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

- James 2:24

Honor thy father and mother.

- Exodus 20:12

If any man come to me, and hate not his father and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

- Luke 14:26

well theres a lot more but im lazy.

First off, sorry about your mom.

I will give two answers per question: one directly related to my Christian upbringing, the other directly related to me being a dick.

1. The Mentally Retarded: They cannot comprehend belief in God, let alone living by Christian principles, so what happens to them?

Christian answer: Remember that part in the Apostle's Creed when Jesus descends into hell? He did that to retrieve the heathens and pre-christians that would have gone to heaven according to his works.

My answer: Since the consciousness is not complete, they have no soul.

2. Indoctrination: How can God send children to Hell if they've never heard of Christianity before and been indoctrinated into believing that their religion is the right one.

Christian answer: See above. [also consider purgatory]

My answer: Because God doesn't give as much of a shit about preventing bad things from happening as Christianity portends - especially not kids.

3. Other Religions: Are several billion people going to die just because they have been brought up (tied in with Indoctrination) to be Buddhist or Hindu?

Christian answer: Performing good acts without devotion to God is like entering in a relationship without knowing anything about love.

My answer: Well, everybody is going to die, so yes.

4. Fate: God knows the future, past and present, how then can we have free will?

Christian answer: God knows what we will do, but limits our abilities of knowledge to keep us from knowing what is beyond the initial moment.

My answer: I don't understand why it matters whether or not we do. I don't see how it makes a difference whether or not God knows what it is that we will eventually do. Either way, we make the choice, regardless of whether the outcome has already been foretold.

5. Good: God states that he is 'good', but is he really? If he is the ultimate being, then he is simply saying that 'good' is the way in which he acts, however, if not, then there is an even higher being that decrees what 'good' truly is.

Christian answer: He IS the higher being that decrees what good truly is.

My answer: A truly complete God is comprised of both 'good' and 'evil' as seen by Christianity, seeing as an omnipotent god wouldn't be separated from anything in the world, including evil.

6. Before: What happened before God made his existence known to Man (that is, what man interpreted as his existence).

Christian answer: God created the world, then created man. That's all the exposition there is.

My answer: Since the multiverse occurs in cycles, we did the same thing we're doing now: emerging in consciousness, securing our existence, and altering our environments to disrupt our intrinsic autonomy until the false civilizations we build collapse.

Hope that helps.

SST

Now, its not in my interest to answer every supposed Contradiction in the Bible, cause everybody will just keeping posting more...this isnt about fairness nor the pursuit

of Truth....this is about fortifing your unbelief.....

"The only argument against the Bible is a bad life"- Webster



quote:And no man hath ascended up to heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

- John 3:13

... and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

- 2 Kings 2:11

Elijah didnt "Ascend" he got a ride. Maybe the 1611 translators should have used a different word than "Ascend"....is there an English word for going up to Heaven on your own Power? Did that word exist and in common use in 1611?

You got to realize that Jesus is speaking in Hebrew, but he's being recorded in Greek then translated to 1611 English. This kind of misunderstanding can be shown in Finnish....In Finnish when you speak of the Hand (käsi) youre also speaking of the wrist! They dont have a word for "Wrist"! So for a lack of a better word they use "Hand" Generically for the "Wrist". Check me out here.... wrist (http://www.freedict.com/onldict/fin.html)

Also, Heaven is sometimes used Generically to refer to the SKY, not the same place God resides. This is another example of using a word Generically for a lack of a better word.



quote:I and my father are one.

- John 10:30

... I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

- John 14:28

[Jesus was the speaker in both of these quotes]

This is the "Trinity". One God...three manifistations. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. Sometimes God refers to himself Singularly or sometimes Plurally. Heres an Example of where God refers to himself Plurally.....

Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: ......

heres another....

Gen 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

Answer: John 14:28 Jesus is referring to his Soul which is God the Father, or himself. Not really a problem if you read the Bible.

quote:Thou shalt not kill

- Exodus 20:13

Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side... and slay every man his brother...

- Exodus 32:27

We all can agree that "Thou shalt not kill" is really in common or modern English "Thou shalt not MURDER"

Theres a difference between Murder (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=murder&x=13&y=12), Execution (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=execution&x=22&y=13), and Self-Defence. (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=self-defense) I see God executing these people....not murdering them. According to God these people deserved to be executed.



quote:For by grace are ye saved through faith... not of works.

- Ephesians 2:8-9

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

- James 2:24

James is talking to a group of Christians that havent showed up yet...look at the first verse of the book!.Theres going to be a "Revival" in Israel. But right now the Jews arent Christian. Paul in Ephesians is talking to present day Christians, he is the "Apostle to the Gentiles" and thats who the present day Christians are....Gentiles. When these Jewish Christians show up, the Gentile Christians are gone...the Rapture. These Jewish Christians will be in the "Tribulation" and subject to a "Works + Faith" salvation. Thats as simple as I can explain it.

My answer simplified again: Ephesians is directed at Christians HERE AND NOW...James is directed at Jewish Christians who havent showed up yet, look at first verse of the book. When these guys show up (Rev 7) theyre under different rules cause us Christians are gone. This is Basic Theology!

Dont ASSume that the whole New Testament is directed at Present Day Christians.



quote:Honor thy father and mother.

- Exodus 20:12

If any man come to me, and hate not his father and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

- Luke 14:26

Anybody that reads the Gospels will realize that when One situation is recorded in the other 3 Gospels but with different or additional details added.

Ill give one example.....one blindman is mentioned in one Gospel, but in another Gospel TWO are mentioned.



Is this mistake? Is it one or Two Blindmen?

The answer is Both, one added details the other omitted. In a court of Law this happens all the time, One witness will remember details another omitted, does this fact negate their collective testimonies...NO.

Having said that, Lk 14:26 is recorded in Matt 10:37 also....and guess what....its got more details.

Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Thats how Jesus defined "hate" in Matt 10:37, somebody who loves his parents more than him.

quote:well theres a lot more but im lazy.

If you dont have basic theology, or if your Lazy and looking to bolster your Unbelief, its not hard to find "Contradictions" Dont expect me to respond to every "Cheapshot" posted. I have a Life outside of totse.com.

Finally, theres plenty of "Biblical Contradictions" websites, this is where this guy got his stuff...he just pulled off the first 5...lazy bum!

In a way its gonna be funny, some of you will stand before God and actually have the balls to whip out one of these "Contradictions", and God will whip out an Old King James Bible and make you look like an ASS in front of everybody!

Better make sure its a "Mistake"

"Dont ASSume God is interested in writing a clear and understandable book"-Sniper Piper

"Who said God would not be tricky or misleading"-Sniper Piper



[This message has been edited by Sniper Piper (edited 07-05-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Slurm:

But there are a number of paradoxes that I would challenge any of you to answer.

First of all these arent "Paradoxes" these are issues you dont have an answerer for.

quote:1. The Mentally Retarded: They cannot comprehend belief in God, let alone living by Christian principles, so what happens to them?

2. Indoctrination: How can God send children to Hell if they've never heard of Christianity before and been indoctrinated into believing that their religion is the right one.

The answer to these two Questions are found in Romans 2 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Rom/Rom002.html)

I challenge you to find them!

quote:3. Other Religions: Are several billion people going to die just because they have been brought up (tied in with Indoctrination) to be Buddhist or Hindu?

If youre speeding down a Highway, and a Cop pulls you over, Whatever you do, dont tell him you didnt know what the speed limit was. Because, his reply will be...

"It was your duty to find out the Speed Limit before driving this Highway....Ignorance is not an Excuse, heres your ticket"

If ignorance wont work with a Cop...it wont work with God.

quote:4. Fate: God knows the future, past and present, how then can we have free will?

Just because he knows how everything ends doesnt mean he "Dictated" it.



quote:5. Good: God states that he is 'good', but is he really? If he is the ultimate being, then he is simply saying that 'good' is the way in which he acts, however, if not, then there is an even higher being that decrees what 'good' truly is.

Gods chief attribute is "Holiness"



quote:6. Before: What happened before God made his existence known to Man (that is, what man interpreted as his existence).

According to his own profession, He always was. No beginning, No end.

God is not the subject of research but of Revelation.....thats what the Bible is...God revealing himself the way he chooses.

I hope I was a Help.

What you have to realise is that the bible itself was probably written by a bunch of old men. I just tend to ignore it al myself.

I'ld like to think if there were a god he'd be tolerant of the small indescresion(sins) we make, that you wouldn't need to go to church to worship him And above all i'll hope that if someone commited asultery stole etc and then went to chuch, put his loose change in the collection plate and then assumed he was absolved of all his sins would just piss himoff to no end.

quote:Originally posted by Forgotten:

What you have to realise is that the bible itself was probably written by a bunch of old men. I just tend to ignore it al myself.

I'ld like to think if there were a god he'd be tolerant of the small indescresion(sins) we make, that you wouldn't need to go to church to worship him And above all i'll hope that if someone commited asultery stole etc and then went to chuch, put his loose change in the collection plate and then assumed he was absolved of all his sins would just piss himoff to no end.



are old men more prone to lying or of inexperience and being fooled?

what and who defines "small indescresion(sins)"?

does one NEED to go to church to worship God?

the way i understand it, putting one's "loose change in the collection plate"

is supposed to be a THANKS OFFERING, not a way to have sins forgiven.. except for the Jewish religion. In that case there are many types of offerings. The reason this is differant is because they believe that the Messiah has not come yet, so they are still under the Law, not saved by Grace, which is the benifit of Jesus dying for our sins.

Here's another question to ponder: if people that have never heard of Jesus are guaranteed to get into heaven, wouldn't the world be better served if Christians erased all traces of their beliefs?

quote:Originally posted by ---Beany---:

If your mum was sick wouldn't it be better to pretend you believe in god, to give her some extra comfort?

If you don't have faith in god then maybe she'll start doubting aswell. I think she needs to be believing in God at this time.

I think that's a terrible idea. Is there anything good about being deceptive to give false comfort? The freedom to act on the information available is one of the most basic we have as human beings and to deliberately give false information (ie. lie) without good reason is anathema to me.

But more importantly, who the hell are you to say what she needs to believe?

quote:Originally posted by Craftian:

Here's another question to ponder: [B]if people that have never heard of Jesus are guaranteed to get into heaven, wouldn't the world be better served if Christians erased all traces of their beliefs?

Im just adressing your statement that I put in Bold....

Just cause you heard of Jesus doesnt gaurantee you a trip to Heaven.

quote:are old men more prone to lying or of inexperience and being fooled?

Not really sure i understand the question all i was implying (though i didn't do it well) was that a 1000+ year old text has little relevance to today and the chuch is constantly changing it to fit in with society

quote:what and who defines "small indescresion(sins)"?

I was talking about small things such as stealing a cookie etc but if you are to actually read the bible it's a sin to mix certain materials,eat certain animals

quote:does one NEED to go to church to worship God?

Thats my understanding of it though there could be a loophole

quote:the way i understand it, putting one's "loose change in the collection plate"

is supposed to be a THANKS OFFERING, not a way to have sins forgiven

If were being totally honest people probably put there "loose change" in the collection plate not to say thanks or have sins forgiven but simply because its the thing to and not to donate would be unseemly.

quote:Originally posted by Forgotten:

are old men more prone to lying or of inexperience and being fooled?

Not really sure i understand the question all i was implying (though i didn't do it well) was that a 1000+ year old text has little relevance to today and the chuch is constantly changing it to fit in with society

quote:what and who defines "small indescresion(sins)"?

I was talking about small things such as stealing a cookie etc but if you are to actually read the bible it's a sin to mix certain materials,eat certain animals

quote:does one NEED to go to church to worship God?

Thats my understanding of it though there could be a loophole

quote:the way i understand it, putting one's "loose change in the collection plate"

is supposed to be a THANKS OFFERING, not a way to have sins forgiven

If were being totally honest people probably put there "loose change" in the collection plate not to say thanks or have sins forgiven but simply because its the thing to and not to donate would be unseemly.

im gonna tru to keep this as short as i can cause gotta go to work early today. please forgive typos and if i possibly sound like an arse. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

The bible is still very relevant today, when the church "changes" it to fit today, it is just trying to show the relevances that the bible has in todays modern world. Small things like stealing a cookie, are still stealing.. ie sins. Yes you are technecally right about the levitical laws (mixing foods etc.) and i sort of agree that if christians should follow the old testement law of the 10 commandments then we should also follow the other laws,,, but the disiples pointed out that if the Jews whom were under the law could not keep the law, how could the Gentiles keep it...so they "reasoned" that since The Christ were sent to save by Grace and free the world from the law, then the Levitical Law is more of a moot point.

As far as a going to church to worship, it is said "Pray, Praise and Give Thanks" .. Remeber the Sabbath and keep it Holy is the command understood for "going to church" but really it should be done always..(pray praise and give thanks ) and in doing so, i think that command is kept.

yes you are right, some people put offerings in for many differant reasons, but many things have been perverted by man and his ignorance.

Craftian, i think you are right in the fact that there are provisions in the bible about the people that have never heard, but that is for God to Judge. If we wiped out all references to Jesus the Christ, our sin would be against the fiat of "Spread the Word"..

Gotta git to work... have a great day and may God bless you all.

This one I can answer for you:

quote:4. Fate: God knows the future, past and present, how then can we have free will?

Knowledge does not equate to forcing. I often know what my friends will do when I say something - does that mean I make them do that? Does it mean that they have no freewill, all of a sudden, because I happen to know them really well?

Same thing with God. He knows us inside and out - so he knows what we'll do.

if he loves people then why does he disease them

quote:Originally posted by vazilizaitsev89:

if he loves people then why does he disease them

you can answer that yourself if you read Genisis chapters 2 and 3

I have a few paradoxes:

If god is so almighty and powerful, can he create a rock that is so heavy that he himself could not lift it?

If he cant make it then that means his power is limited.

If he cant pick it up that means his power is limited.

Also, How long did it take God to make the Earth? Most will say 6 days and rested on the 7th. But if you remember he created the sun and earth on the 2nd day. Meaning that you cant tell time without the sun, so the first day could of been longer than 24 hours. It could of been 25 hours, it could of been 30 hours, it could of been 300 years. You get my point,

I hope your mom gets better.

quote:Originally posted by ImCoolAndAwesome:

I have a few paradoxes:

If god is so almighty and powerful, can he create a rock that is so heavy that he himself could not lift it?

If he cant make it then that means his power is limited.

If he cant pick it up that means his power is limited.

this would only be true if God were limited by our knowledge and logic. You may be limiting your "parodox" to our understanding.

quote:

Also, How long did it take God to make the Earth? Most will say 6 days and rested on the 7th. But if you remember he created the sun and earth on the 2nd day. Meaning that you cant tell time without the sun, so the first day could of been longer than 24 hours. It could of been 25 hours, it could of been 30 hours, it could of been 300 years. You get my point,

I hope your mom gets better.

Gen 1:3-5 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light , that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night.

And the evening and the morning were the first day.

First of all, it appears that God not only created everything, but also defined time.

Secondly, God created earth on the first day (Gen 1:1)

Thirdly, where you see that He made the earth on the second day, i see it as creating the dry land and defining it as being called earth.

Fourthly, on the Fourth day (Gen 1:14-19)

God made light "sources" i.e. sun, moon, and stars.

I find it interesting that, if this were a fairy tale made up by man, that the authors would have said day one=light but day 4=light sources. smart enough to have language and (later on) writing, but not smart enough to edit so that the light comes from a source. Ancient people were not stupid, and in some ways, they were probably smarter than modern people because they didnt have playstation, tv, music medium etc. to spend their time... they didnt even have shoulders of giants to stand on.

The Bible was first orally passed on, and then written down. And if you were God, would you give all the answers (of science etc.) to your created beings as if they were advanced, or would you tell them in a way that was the truth, but hold back so that these "children" could have some comprehension of what happened, leaving things for their discovery when they were ready.







[This message has been edited by xtreem5150ahm (edited 07-11-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Todesgehen:

The bible is full of contradictions, mistakes, and outright lies. Since god hasnt come down to anyone in the past 1950 years or so i'd say its pretty much bullshit. Now if god came down tomorrow and said "YO BELIEVE IN ME" and did something fancy then i'll take back all that i say. Here are just a few contradictions in the bible which is the sole authority for many Christian sects.

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

- John 3:13

Hmmm...you apparently didn't read that. What it says is this:

"No one has ever gone into heaven, EXCEPT the one who came from heaven - the Son of Man." (NIV)

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." (KJV)

quote:... and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

- 2 Kings 2:11[/b]

"As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven in a whirlwind." (NIV)

"And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." (KJV)

I and my father are one.

- John 10:30

... I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

- John 14:28

[Jesus was the speaker in both of these quotes]

Thou shalt not kill

- Exodus 20:13

Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side... and slay every man his brother...

- Exodus 32:27

quote:For by grace are ye saved through faith... not of works.

- Ephesians 2:8-9

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

- James 2:24

In James, he is clearly not speaking about salvation, he is talking about justification to man.

In Ephesians, he is referencing salvation, in regards to entrance into heaven, into God's presence. Out of context...

quote:Honor thy father and mother.

- Exodus 20:12

If any man come to me, and hate not his father and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

- Luke 14:26

Hate, in this scripture, is not to be taken in a literal sense, and I do not say that to "prove" my point. (what is literal, and what is not ? One must study the Hebrew texts and language in order to derive the literal meanings of the words and teachings of the Bible) What Jesus is implying here is that no man, woman, or child should come before HIM, if service (discipleship) is the intended goal.

When it comes to discipleship, Jesus tells us to place no hierarchal reverence above him amongst our families, that they are on loan to us. Here is an exmaple:

Matthew 8:21 - "Another disciple said to him, 'Lord, first let me go and bury my father.' But Jesus told him, 'Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead.'"

A reference to Luke 14:25 would be Matthew 10:37-39, where Jesus states, "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his own son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it."

This is supported by another scripture where Jesus says that none shall come before him in importance. I have spent a lot of time looking for this scripture, and cannot find it at this point. I will come back to this later. (my apologies)

This ideal is tested in Genesis when Abraham is instructed to sacrifice his own son. God had no intention of requiring Abraham to do this, but tested him to show that he would do it, if it were asked of him.

quote:well theres a lot more but im lazy.

And I have more, but I am exhausted...to the scriptures I did not address, I will research and repost...

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

And I have more, but I am exhausted...to the scriptures I did not address, I will research and repost...



Digital Savior, If you hadnt noticed, I already answered these "Mistakes", for which I havent gotten an intelligent response!

Apparently, it takes to many braincells for these guys to think up a rebuttal, or to think for that matter!

I'm bored, so I'll just give some more input on these "paradoxes..."

quote:1. The Mentally Retarded: They cannot comprehend belief in God, let alone living by Christian principles, so what happens to them?



How do we know what they are thinking? God can still communicate with us in ways other than linear thought and comprehension. God is beyond any of that, beyond any comprehension that we might think we have. We can never assume what others think or believe, nor can we judge them.

quote:2. Indoctrination: How can God send children to Hell if they've never heard of Christianity before and been indoctrinated into believing that their religion is the right one.



Everyone is equal in the eyes of God. God does not make "special exceptions" for children. God does not think like us, if you can call it "thinking." This might make God sound like a jerk, but it makes sense. Also, bear in mind that no one is beyond redemption.

quote:3. Other Religions: Are several billion people going to die just because they have been brought up (tied in with Indoctrination) to be Buddhist or Hindu?



See above. In a word: yes.

quote:4. Fate: God knows the future, past and present, how then can we have free will?



You're very ignorant to try to put a label on what God actually "knows" and "thinks." God has not laid in stone our actions and decisions. We are in control of our lives. Fate is bunk. You might say God knows us so well that he can figure out exactly what will happen. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

quote:5. Good: God states that he is 'good', but is he really? If he is the ultimate being, then he is simply saying that 'good' is the way in which he acts, however, if not, then there is an even higher being that decrees what 'good' truly is.



What is "good?" It's just a word. "Good" describes an intanglible feeling that cannot be defined by a word. It's all an argument of semantics. Simply put, God defined "good." His creation was "good," and this creation was created in His image.

By logical form, "If God's creation was good and the creation was in His image, then God is good."

quote:6. Before: What happened before God made his existence known to Man (that is, what man interpreted as his existence).



There was no beginning! There is no end! God was always there; God defined time as having a beginning and an end; but God himself is everlasting. God has ever and will always be there. When God created man in the Garden of Eden, he immediately made his presence known. In short, Man has known God since the beginning of time.

Hope this helped. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

[This message has been edited by Brother Maynard (edited 07-13-2004).]

Sniper Piper, I didn't actually read what anyone else wrote yet...I normally get to that AFTER I answer the original posting.

For one thing, everyone view's the Bible differently, and what your interpretation of it is may be vastly different than mine (as I believe we have illustrated on numerous occasions).

Secondly, I wanted to see if I could find the references and offer solutions to the supposed "paradox's" of my own accord, with the grace and guidance of God. I am certainly not a Bible scholar, but it's good to know that one can find answers, if needed.

But you are right...the threads are posted, and when valid, intelligent posts are sent in reply, there is no response. I wonder if they just haven't gotten a chance to reply, or if their questions have been sufficiently answered.

[This message has been edited by Digital_Savior (edited 07-13-2004).]