We, as humans, pay so much attention to our minds that we're losing touch with our true vision, our instinct. When we became seperated from the earth, as a culture, as a religion, we became too left brained, too logical. We've lost something.

People become interested in what they feel can be obtained easier than their true vision, what they origionally wanted. At first, everyone has a vision. A sense of what they need or want to be, and in most cases people lose the idea of what they want because something false comes along. It looks right to these people because it can be reached easier and faster than the origional goal. people, as a whole, are too involved with what they think is right rather than what they feel is right.

We take too much time looking at how oour decisions are going to affect us in the future. If you live for the now, you learn so much more by making mistakes and then learning from them.

By losing our true vision, how do we really explain ourselves?

As well, when do we actually realize who we are? Is there some sort of event in our lives that signals to us that we are finally the people we are supposed to be?

What decides this? maybe we do it unconsciously. Maybe one day we wake up and say to ourselves "this is who I am, I am done growing as a person".

When do we understand who we are as individuals? Do we need people like doctors and analysts to tell us who we are and why? I dont think so, personally.

I think that no matter how well we think we know ourselves, we'll never truly understand. We understand some of the aspects of our lives that shape us, as people, but we may never really know who or what we are, or are supposed to be.

Maybe it only comes to you in death, after you've lived your life and know that there is going to be nothing else that can change the way you are.

Maybe not. Maybe people are not supposed to know who or what they are. Unconsciously, we may not what to know because if we did, it would ruin life for us.

Any input? Preferably without any bullshit religious biases.

Why should I trust my "true vision" (whatever that means) rather than rational thought?

what do you define as rational thought? Why would you not trust your true vision? what if your true vision made more sense than what you define as rational thought?

If we knew ourselves would there be any point to life? Perhaps life is simply a process of trying to find out who we really are.

We live for tomorrow, the future, because if we didn't our life would lose meaning. Is there any point to living a day? No! We need to do something today for tomorrow so we can acheive that goal and set a new one. I say live life one day at a time, and don't let the past influence the future. The minute we let preconception into our life, the minute any new experience becomes distorted. Without preconception we allow the mind to focus on the present.

I know I have, as well as many of the people of totse and yourself have spent a great deal of time soul searching, trying to rationalize life, rather than taking a holistic approach. Humans rationalize life because it gives self-satisfying, although incorrect reasons for who they are.

Human (as well as animal) instinct is to survive. Humans need answers, everything must be explained. Our existence needs to be justified. Once humans began developing more and more brain mass, we began searching for the meaning of life, we deviated from simply just survivng. Seaching for the meaning of life meant the creation of society and religion, causing humans too left brained. We lost the ability to think freely when we began to rely upon a static organizational system (religion) to base our lives and values.

The biggest downfall of many a great thinker is trying to find logic in everything and not being able to except the concept of complete randomness.

If a person truly understands nihilism, there is a good possibility that they will be pushed into madness as their brain will no be able to comprehend that radical changes that occuring to the thought process. From birth a person is literally programmed to have these morals, believe in this, etc, with minor reprogramming in the form of life experiences. When a person begins to accept nihilism in their life, the brain will naturally try and analyse what is happening - the breakdown of morals, ideals, belief, god - instead of synthesizing the removal of values. When one cannot accept what is happening the mind will break; however, when one accepts what has happened the mind will flourish.

The once objective world becomes subjective.

[This message has been edited by NihilisticAinSophAur (edited 07-07-2004).]

[This message has been edited by NihilisticAinSophAur (edited 07-07-2004).]

I think you are who you are when no one is looking. A creature of instinct and expirence. For expirence can be miss interpreted, yet it is all we really have.

And instinct is a true human being. Yet what are our natural born instincts? We need other human beings, its a survial tactic. So it is intinctual to act like others, we naturally get along with others like us. We are pack animals. Which is funny seeing as how territorial we are.

AI, its interesting to think that we are only who we truly are when no one is looking. But that seems too romantic to me. personally I believe that most of us are who we are no matter if people are around or not.

There are some who put up a disguise to conceal their true selves because they are afraid of what others might think...and maybe those people are the ones who have lost sight of their true vision.

Experiences can be misinterpreted, but in the end does it really matter what others perceive your experiences as? For that matter, does it make a big difference what others think shape you? I dont think so, really.

I dont think we as humans need others. I think there are just as many of us who would rather be completely alone, to be left to our own devices, than wander around with a group who only expects more of you than you can give.

We do naturally get along with others, yes, but that doesnt necessarily mean it makes us want to act like others. What I'm trying to say is that basically, we have choice. We decide what shapes us, society doesnt, our friends and peers dont(yet the may play some sort of an influence) but ultimately we are really the only determinants in our formation.

As NihilisticAinSophAur said, Humans rationalize life because it gives self-satisfying, although incorrect reasons for who they are...The biggest downfall of many a great thinker is trying to find logic in everything and not being able to except the concept of complete randomness.

People hide thier insecuritys, and everyone I've met seems to have some kind've insecurity. For it seems to me everyone is trying to reach perfection, and that is defined by a society.

Then can you trust your expirences?

Are you suggesting that some people are born not wanting to be around others? I can understand people wanting to be left alone, just not that people are born that way, rather made to want to be left alone, or chose to be alone. Everyone is needy of something. And its alright if its not people.

Of course we are what ultimately shapes us. Yet birds of a feather. And we choose who we run with.

The notion of perfection was always mans biggest mistake. When we, as imperfect humans, were in the labs trying to create life, the perfect being, we were making a mistake. To be a human being should be enough.

Humans are imperfect, that is our perfection. We go around trying to fix our faults, to perfect ourselves, when really we should embrace them. Our downfalls and shortcomings are what make humanity what it is.

When I said that our experiences could be misinterpreted, I meant by others. Not yourself. You are the only one who really knows what can shape who you are, and you are the only one who knows what you learn from the things you go through. The lessons one learns throughout life are subjective.

I'm not suggesting at all that we are born wanting to be alone. At first we are all very social creatures, because we are just learning abnout life and what is around us. Later in life, when we have experienced certain things, a variety of formative events we may make the decision (unconsciously, or consciously) to want to be alone.

But yes, we are what shapes us. But the whole birds of a feather thing is also subjective. Again, we have the choice to decide whether or not we let others take part in our formation. It all depends on the person.

quote:...we became too left brained, too logical.

...people, as a whole, are too involved with what they think is right rather than what they feel is right.

SA, youre just rehashing a New Age theme.... The Preeminence of Feelings over Logic.

Feelings are a Feminine trait, Logical thinking is a Masculine trait. Anybody with anykind of experience with women will come to the conclusion that a woman is motivated primarily by her feelings....young men realize this flaw and exploite it. One evidence that Men are Logical is their role as the "Fixers" of the Human race, Men by nature take a problem and turn it over and over until they figure it out....this is Logic.

What you hint to in your Philosophical post is just an attempt by the left to "Feminize America"! This theme is played out in Movies all the time....

"Go with your feelings young Skywalker"-Star Wars

and you thought I would post a Biblical answer.... http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

Sniper Piper, are you prejudice? What do you have against women?

Solar Absolute does not worry about whether something is feminine or masculine because he is free from definition. He does not judge a person based on anatomical differences.

I think women are smarter for being motivated by their feelings rather than logic. Logic is derived from an static organizational system, a set of defined rules that were created by somebody. Why rely on what works for others, rely on what works for you, the person. Feelings come from emotions, emotions coming from the natural chemicals signals within the body. Trusting whats coming from your own "inside" makes more sense than trusting what comes from the outside and someone else.

By classifying what is feminine and masculine you are stereotyping.

Sniper Piper, this has got to be the stupidest post you have ever made.

So what if a woman is primarily motivated by emotions? As NihilisticAinSophAur said, it makes them smarter for doing so. Women may be more logical because of their emotions. What kind of men exploit this trait? Women beaters, deranged religious fanatics, and anyone in the armed sercives(?).

Men are only dominated by logic(as you say) because we are expected to. By realizing that defining things, and judgement are tools of ignorant, prejudice idiots, humanity can move forward and fully reach its potential.

Logic:The science or art of exact reasoning, or of pure and formal thought, or of the laws according to which the processes of pure thinking should be conducted. Pertaining to what the individual sees as being true.

What is masculine about that definition? Can women not no this? Emotions play a large part in what a person thinks is true or logical. Are you, yourself Sniper Piper, not emotional over your point or stance in this argument?



Look at the last bit of the definition Sniper Piper, pertaining to what the individual sees as being true humanity needs to trust what is in themselves rather than be influenced by the irrational hoardes that believe as you do. Humanity needs to create logic as they see fit. A set of rules defined by the individual, not by the society the individual is a part of.



Get past the ancient thought that males are superior to females. It is a stupid, ignorant way to think and it makes for poor arguments. No one is better than anyone else Sniper Piper. Not even you.





[This message has been edited by Solar Absolute (edited 07-14-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

SA, youre just rehashing a New Age theme.... The Preeminence of Feelings over Logic.

Feelings are a Feminine trait, Logical thinking is a Masculine trait. Anybody with anykind of experience with women will come to the conclusion that a woman is motivated primarily by her feelings....young men realize this flaw and exploite it. One evidence that Men are Logical is their role as the "Fixers" of the Human race, Men by nature take a problem and turn it over and over until they figure it out....this is Logic.

What you hint to in your Philosophical post is just an attempt by the left to "Feminize America"! This theme is played out in Movies all the time....

"Go with your feelings young Skywalker"-Star Wars

and you thought I would post a Biblical answer.... http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)



FEEL

To perceive through the sense of touch: feel the velvety smoothness of a peach.



To perceive as a physical sensation: feel a sharp pain; feel the cold.

To touch.

To examine by touching. See Synonyms at touch.

To test or explore with caution: feel one's way in a new job.



To undergo the experience of: felt my interest rising; felt great joy.



To be aware of; sense: felt the anger of the crowd.

To be emotionally affected by: She still feels the loss of her dog.

To be persuaded of (something) on the basis of intuition, emotion, or other indefinite grounds: I feel that what the informant says may well be true.

To believe; think: She felt his answer to be evasive.



EMOTION

A mental state that arises spontaneously rather than through conscious effort and is often accompanied by physiological changes; a feeling: the emotions of joy, sorrow, reverence, hate, and love.

A state of mental agitation or disturbance: spoke unsteadily in a voice that betrayed his emotion. See Synonyms at feeling.

The part of the consciousness that involves feeling; sensibility: “The very essence of literature is the war between emotion and

intellect” (Isaac Bashevis Singer).



The reason I give these examples of each is that I don't agree that feelings are a feminine trait. We ALL feel...in everything that we do.

I believe women are predominantly driven by emotion, while men are predominantly driven by logic (in most cases). I think this is what you were trying to say, but did not do so clearly.

I don't agree that young men recognize ANYTHING about women...it is their natural instinct to please themselves, and if that means taking advantage of someone else, for whatever reason, by whatever means, they will. (no, I am not a man hater. I am a realist. NO LAUGHING ! *grin*)

In relation to feminizing America, I didn't realize that his idea was "nation-specific". I also feel this ideal is more of a way to NUMB the masses, not feminize them. People that don't think for themselves are controllable.

What did you say you have a PHD in, again ?