I am a Satanist.

Let the flaming ensue! http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

So what. You can believe whatever you want.

Damn! I was hoping for an argument. So either you are really cool and accepting, or you saw that I was trying to make interesting conversation and decided to be a dick. Either way, good show.

I was kind of just trying to get the message out there that there are indeed Satanists on totse, contrary to some people's belief. Also, I was hoping for a little bit of discussion on the principles and misconceptions about the religion to happen... but I guess such hopes are short lived when you don't supply a starting argument...

So you're basically attention whoring... and somehow think that your belief structure makes you special enough to warrant people taking time to organise a 'witch hunt'.

'CLEANSE THE SATANIST FROM TOTSE'... and such.

Really, if you're a satanist, good on you... whatever floats your boat. I personally see LaVey's 'religion', as a great philosophy of the individual.

Satanism is the product of a child-like stubborn indignance to organized and divine law and a sublimation of sexual fetishism, holding the virtues of pedophiles and anarchists above knights and kings, praising the nobility of bestial orgies and hedonistic self-destruction above holy creation and spiritual ascension.

How's that?

SST

That's 'fucking retarded', if you actually mean it and displays how ignorant you are of modern Satanism.

Of course, you may just be feeding the troll. In case which you are fucking retarded.

Edit: Left out a word.

[This message has been edited by Durell (edited 07-15-2004).]

"Modern Satanism"? I thought this was about LaVeyan Satanism.

SST

... modern satanism is LaVeyan satanism.

So how was I wrong?

Hitler bad, Vandels good

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

So how was I wrong?

Because LaVey's satanism can even coincide with Christian values. It is effectively the same as Aleister Crowley's law 'Do what thou wilt'. LaVey states that you should be true to your own desires and ideals... so you only participate in 'bestial orgies', if that is your natural inclination; in fact, it would be deemed 'unsatanic', for you to indulge when your heart isn't in it. To this end, a man of noble ideals and inclinations is actually following satanism by staying true to them. This is why I term it a 'philosophy of the individual', rather than a religion.

Satanism is the product of a child-like stubborn indignance to organized and divine law...

From the Book of Satan, Chapter 1, verses 4-5:

I request reasons for your golden rule and ask the why and wherefore of your ten commands. Before none of your printed idols do I bend in acquiescence, and he who saith "thou shalt" to me is my mortal foe!

Reminiscient of a stubborn child.

...and a sublimation of sexual fetishism

From the Book of Lucifer, on the chapter on Satanic Sex, page 67-68:

Satanism condones any type of sexual activity which properly satisfies your individual desires - be it heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, or even asexual, if you choose. Satanism also sanctions any fetish or deviation which will enhance your sex-life, so long as it involves no one who does not wish to be involved.

, holding the virtues of pedophiles and anarchists above knights and kings,

From the Book of Satan, Chapter 1, verses 7-8:

No hoary falsehood shall be a truth to me; no stifling dogma shall encramp my pen! I break away from all conventions that do not lead to my earthly success and happiness.

praising the nobility of bestial orgies and hedonistic self-destruction above holy creation and spiritual ascension.

From the Book of Lucifer, on the chapter of Indulgence... NOT Compulsion, page 81:

Satanism encourages its followers to indulge in their natural desires. Only by so doing can you be a completely satisfied person with no frustrations which can be harmful to yourself and others around you.

Show me where I step off the path.

SST

Satanism and its professed 'natural desires', don't necessarily have to be purely hedonistic, as is illustrated in my 'man of noble inclinations', example. As for the pedophilia, aspect. LaVey states that you aren't to harm children at all or pervert their innocence... because they (like animals), are the purest example of satanic thought personified; beings that live without tempered and self-sublimated minds.

Under NO circumstances would a Satanist sacrifice any animal or baby! For

centuries, propagandists of the right-hand path have been prattling over the

supposed sacrifices of small children and voluptuous maidens at the hands of

diabolists. It would be thought that anyone reading or hearing of these heinous

accounts would immediately question their authenticity, taking into

consideration the biased sources of the stories. On the contrary, as with all

"holy" lies which are accepted without reservation, this assumed modus operandi

of the Satanists persists to this day!

There are sound and logical reasons why the Satanists could not perform such

sacrifices. Man, the animal, is the godhead to the Satanist. The purest form of

carnal existence reposes in the bodies of animals and human children who have

not grown old enough to deny themselves their natural desires. They can perceive

things that the average adult human can never hope to. Therefore, the Satanist

holds these beings in a sacred regard, knowing he can learn much from these

natural magicians of the world.

The Satanist is aware of the universal custom of the treader of the path of

Agarthi; the killing of the god. Inasmuch as gods are always created in man's

own image - and the average man hates what he sees in himself - the inevitable

must occur: the sacrifice of the god who represents himself. The Satanist does

not hate himself, nor the gods he might choose, and has no desire to destroy

himself or anything for which he stands! It is for this reason he could never

willfully harm an animal or child.

As for some of your other points: coventions that lead to one's success and happines are relative to the individual... unless you're saying that all people are ignoble and desire to act sinfully. As for fetishism, who gives a shit as long as it's consensual. It can add spice to sex, and as long as it is kept private amongst consenting people... why care?

Erm... I realised after re-reading your initial comment that the key term was 'product of...'. In this regard I can agree with you. LaVey is a childish, overemotional and hedonistic bastard. However, the philosophy layed down in the Satanist's Bible is one I can agree with on my counts, which is why I am taking a stance that defends the ideas therein.

im a spiritual satanist, but i have a deep hatred for the way LaVeyan satanism has managed to make such a horrible name with its bullshit reputation for all satanists, most "modern satanists" dont even believe in satan its like a crying child out of christianity, they're just attention whore atheists, so what im saying is, if you dont belive in satan, or any god, whatever its your deal but calling yourself a "modern satanist" is just gonna make people not take you seriously and give people like me a bad name.

quote:Originally posted by Freer Mage:

Damn! I was hoping for an argument.

Sorry. I will try to do better i the future. I can be obnoxious (really), but I am trying to improve the vitriolic tone of the forums.

Things seem more interesting if people have differing views.

Satanism and its professed 'natural desires', don't necessarily have to be purely hedonistic, as is illustrated in my 'man of noble inclinations', example. As for the pedophilia, aspect. LaVey states that you aren't to harm children at all or pervert their innocence... because they (like animals), are the purest example of satanic thought personified; beings that live without tempered and self-sublimated minds.

I am aware of this; however, I'm going to use a semantic "Get Out of Jail Free" card and reiterate that he praises the virtues of pedophiles and anarchists. I am aware that LaVey did not publicly condone pedophilia, but the psychic principle of abnormal sex was something that he praised. He, at one point, stated his distaste for the Catholic Church making a natural reproductive instinct a sinful element, yet supports sexual indulgence that runs counter to that reproductive instinct by advocating homo-, bi-, mono-, and even a-sexuality.

As for some of your other points: coventions that lead to one's success and happines are relative to the individual... unless you're saying that all people are ignoble and desire to act sinfully. As for fetishism, who gives a shit as long as it's consensual. It can add spice to sex, and as long as it is kept private amongst consenting people... why care?

The operative word to focus on is "earthly." Earthly, out of the principles of physical matter, are temporal, and cannot exist beyond itself. What the hell is the point of living for something that will barely exceed your own life span?

Fetishism, as stated above, is a contradiction to the reproductive instinct he praised with indignant defiance of church law - not to mention the farthest thing from an admirable virtue as one can possibly reach.

Erm... I realised after re-reading your initial comment that the key term was 'product of...'. In this regard I can agree with you. LaVey is a childish, overemotional and hedonistic bastard. However, the philosophy layed down in the Satanist's Bible is one I can agree with on my counts, which is why I am taking a stance that defends the ideas therein.



No harm, no foul. My conflict with Satanism is its nihilistic rejection of living for anything but yourself. Because, in the end, if you focus on merely yourself as an individual without any connections to anything else, what are you? A beast, a lifeless ghoul without function, reason, or destiny. I don't think we grew thumbs and conquered the planet in order to remain as beasts.

Well, the theory is that you 'Do what thou wilt'. This is the point I am going to stick with in regard to your criticism of Satanism. Basically, if you desire to live for yourself, then it is 'unsatanic', not to. However, if you care for others and desire to live for them, then it is also 'unsatanic', not to. It comes down to following your own inclinations rather than tempering them because of others (Which is easy to understand, and a lot easier to swallow if LaVey hadn't termed it satanism (I understand why traditional Satanists like Anubis get pissed off)). This 'can', in most cases, lead to an amoral existence (in my opinion). However, you have to admit that some people, whether it be due to the way they were raised or some strange strength of character, desire to be noble... and their inclinations follow. In this way, being 'satanic', in the eyes of satanism, can actually produce good people, as long as the individual's base nature is inclined toward virtuous action.

P.S. I admire the way you're debating this. Strangely civil... it's refreshing.

... I have no problems with Satanism, however LaVey spent more time saying bullshit about other religions than developing his own.

He doesn't know much about other religions, his books prove that.

Thank you! Finally something interesting. This is exactly what I wanted http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

On the note of pedophaelia as a product of Satanism, if I may add to the argument, my point is this.

If you are a pedophile, you are harming someone else without warrant. Of course, if you are a Satanist and you are also a pedophile, that means that you readily admit to it. Thus, people will likely try to (or at least want to) hurt you or kill you. Satanism doesn't cause pedophaelia. All it does is make people honest, and free them from 'rules' that bind them from making the right decisions on their own instead of being forced to. Everyone agrees about that being a part of Satanism right?

I rest my case then. If your first inclination about being free to do what you want sexually is that it allows you to be a pedophile, you're a sick fuck to begin with. And it's probably your repression and the supposedly 'good' system of sin and rules to abide by that made you that way. If you are born free and raised without institutionalized morals, but you are taught that the golden rule is the SOLE principle of morality and conscience, you will not be this way, according to Satanism.

And if you are, by some chance, a sick fuck anyway; religion should'nt try to 'save' you. You should be pelted with stones and drowned in a river. That sounds fair, right?