Ok, show of hands here. Who's freaked out for no reason at all, had a chill go through you, the hair on your arms stand stright up, your adrenaline surge, your heart speed up, and then got the unresistable urge to put your fist through a wall, to rip your hair out, to bark at the moon, or just plain holler?

Who has avoided fighting, because you know inside you that when you DO fight, it has to be for a damn good reason, because you lose control and go for the kill?

I know I have. For years, since I was around 9, to today, my 18th birthday. I have a constant dull pain in my head. I have multiple attacks such as the one I described daily. They do not cease.

I attempted to find a reason for these episodes. I surmised that they were panic attacks, but the description of panic attacks didn't quite jive. I then proposed that it was my body fearing it's own mortality, and reacting. This too didn't quite gel, as I do not fear death. Not when I was an agnostic, not when I was a firm believer in Judaism, and certainly not now, as a brand new believer in Norse polytheism, Asatru.

I'd never heard of anyone else having attacks like mine, except for my own little brother, who began having them about 5 years after I did. I asked my father, but he didn't seem to want to discuss it. In a way, it made sense. I know my father to be the ultimate powder keg. He will ramain calm about nearly everything, but when he finally unleashes his anger, he could put his fist through a concrete wall if he wanted to. It fucking scares you. Scares me, and I'm a grown man.

So, I was uncertain as to the cause of these attacks. As far as I knew, my brother and I were the only ones. I learned to cope with it by basically howling and barking when the attack came. If I stifled it, it would only build up to something worse, but if I let it out, it'd be over in a few seconds, and I'd be back to normal.

Enter Asatru. I was reading a bit on Tyr, from wikipedia's entry on him. They had something on it called 'The Fountain of Tyr,' a move viking Berserkers used on their enemies. This led me to wikipedia's entry on Berserkers themselves, including a number of theories on how Berserkers got their rage. I didn't think that drug use was likely. My interest was piqued when I caught something that said to the effect that Berserkers were an insular group, who passed the trait along their own bloodlines.

MANY google searches later, using different variations of 'viking berserker causes,' the majority of which led me to websites with the same article posted over and over again, and I arrived at THIS site: http://www.winterscapes.com/uppsala/berserk.htm

This site amazed me, as here was a man who was still practicing the Berserkergang, and who shed light on the causes. His description matched me perfectly. I'm mostly of Danish descent, although I am not the proto-typical Nordic. I'm only 6', with darker hair, although I do have very broad shoulders, something you wouldn't expect if you look at my relatives, who are all under 5'10", my father being only 5'7". We weren't the ideal Danes, and my ancestors were indentured servants, and likely of the lowest class back in Denmark. This jived with the berserkers, who were shunned because of their rage, which could cause them to turn on their best friends and commit atrocious acts of violence. In fact, going berserk was banned under the new Christian governments in Scandinavia(personally, I dunno how you could ban it, as it's something berserkers don't have a great deal of control over.)

I also read that berserkers were members of the cult of Odin, warriors dedicated to Odin, a god who could result in a violent end for his followers. What astounded me when I read this is that, before I had some across the information of berserkers, I had already discovered a rather natural affinity for Odin. I'd even, for a reason ABSOLUTELY unknown to me now, carved the Valknut into my arm with 'Mamiya' scarification one night. Even when I knew nothing of Asatru, I always identified with the qualities Odin posesses and represents. I was always more of an 'eye for an eye' guy than a 'love your neighbor' kind of guy. I always had my own idea of what was right and wrong, and it often conflicted with society. With this new information, it all started to come together. Suddenly, everything clicked. I'm more than likely naturally a berserker. I'd put damn good money on it. Now, all that's left is to practice it, instead of letting it consume me.

Wow, this post is getting way too long. Any longer, and even the smart people won't read it. Ok, I'm going to skip a few things, and cut to the chase: is anybody else like me?

[This message has been edited by The_Rabbi (edited 07-19-2004).]

I'm almost 1/2 Danish, and from what I've researched, I'm from a lower class family as well.

I'm not sure if I'm a Berserker, though I do go fucking nuts every once in awhile with the urge to do severe damage to that around me. It happens about once a week or so, and has been at that frequency for almost 10 years. I've read about the Norse mythos, and I also have the natural affinity for legends surrounding Odin...though I'm also quite partial to Thor.

Perhaps instead of it being a God thing, Danes are just some angry mother fuckers?

Hail, fellow Asatruar!

The best thing I can think of to do for this kind of situation is ruthless self-observation. What are the circumstances - physical, emotional, social, mental, et cetera - of these attacks?

Once you identify the origins, you can learn to channel that passion to a creative and productive process - exercise, perhaps. Or, channel it in times when it is truly necessary or beneficial, like when you find yourself in a fight.

It should be a slow, tedious process to master, but you have the strength of arcane gods at your disposal.

Wotan Mit Uns!

SST

I do similar things, but in a childlike play manner. Exactly the opposite of what your talking about... I'm completely love everybody and everything.

I jump up and down, sing(usualy spontaneous, or wordless songs) laugh for no reason, smile and feel like hugging everything.

Go figure?

Usualy I keep it all inside, I guess like you do, or have done with your energy, because I'm realy quite and shy, and generlay don't like to bring attention to myself. But that is fading a little more with age.

I just thought the opposite side might be interesting for you to see, or know about.

edit: ^nothing makes me happier, it feels like my true spirit. It's like inexpressable ecstacy, which is why it comes out the way it does, I can't let it out as it should be, I'm not fucked up for that I think, not pure/natural enough. It's different in quailty and intesity, but a similar thread running through the feelings.

Of course I apply all my constructs to it, who knows what's realy going on.

[This message has been edited by evolove (edited 07-19-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by evolove:

I do similar things, but in a childlike play manner. Exactly the opposite of what your talking about... I'm completely love everybody and everything.

I jump up and down, sing(usualy spontaneous, or wordless songs) laugh for no reason, smile and feel like hugging everything.

Go figure?

Usualy I keep it all inside, I guess like you do, or have done with your energy, because I'm realy quite and shy, and generlay don't like to bring attention to myself. But that is fading a little more with age.

I just thought the opposite side might be interesting for you to see, or know about.

Interesting. Perhaps it's like the thin line between love and hate. The same energies lie underneath, despite the form they take on the surface.

That is what I was thinking, sorry I edited that as you were replying. It is what I meant with the constructs line at the end, also the feeling istelf comes from these too.

I watched two documentries recently, one was on brain function, the other about the work of Jospeh Campbell.

Two pionts from those that could apply here are.

The way we experience things are through the different patterns that our neurons fire in, so as you said with the same energy it would be like that, but it's just hitting different switches for each of us.

Say chololate for me is 849583 burnt chocolate is 8497382. For somebody else it is different too. Which I thought could make it quite hard to develop on of those machine they have in the furute, virutal reality plugged right into your brain. But I thought that if all this is is electricity, and I know how difficult this could be also, but perhpas, there could be someway developed were this, in the cases of people with cronic fobias could have these paterns altered, and returned to normal. Or like a head set you could put on and it could alter your character for you....I leave that to sci-fi though,

And also.... if one person has a realy strong electro-magnetic felid, and can use this, (the feild being whatever an aura is - I don't know if it's electro-magnetic or what) then could they use this themselves, or unwilling alter the perceptions of others, or at least they're general states of mind? And could some healings be done in a similar manner?

Also with this piont, Mr. Campbell(I now have a lot of respect for this guy) noted that one theory on the many similarites between mythologies around the world could be because mentaly we are all relitively the same, ie. as all humans have a heart and lungs, so we have the same basis of psychological function, given to varriables of course, ie. the simalarites bewteen mystical experiences.

But also he noted a few stories, one about this Indian from North Eastern USA, just as it was being invaded by whites, a Jesiut preist witnessed the practices of two tribes, a prisioner was taken for sacrifice by the opposing tribe and was to be tortured to death in the most terrible manner. But he went completely willingly, walking on his own, laughing and joking with his captures, who treaded him with the same kindness, and also as most graceous hosts. There was no animosity or anything.

He also noted that this was the same as Jesus in John, dancing, or leading a dance and a prayer before his Crucifiction.

And the Indians when faceing Custer "Today is a good day to die!"

Like the soldiers in Vietnam, it was compeltely horrific, but by God did you know you were alive!

We have this kind of experience sucked out of us in modern life, a lot of the time. It comes out in nights on the town, sports, driving insanely fast ect.

For me I think it has to come out like this.

I also thought, that meditation, and other rituals (I'm sorry I know little about Asatru) Qigong, is a way that can help us to live like this, tweaking our minds a bodies, spirits aswell, in the right manner, or increasing such stimulation, in an almost artifical manner, (one of our greatest gift I think it to be able to make running changes to our minds, if we have to or need to, for many reasons) keeping us in the moment, and utilising our fullest potential at all times, keeping us open to experence without fear, with a mental disposition as clear and pure as possible.

He also told a story by Nietzsche, about a camel, the camel at the right age kneels, and is loaded with goods, then is sent out into the desert, where he turns into the lion, the lion must slay a dragon, and on each of the dragons scales is a "Thou Shalt" after the dragon has been slain, the lion now becomes a boy.

So the camel is a boy, and the boy is a "true" man.

"Truly, I say to you, unless you become like children, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven." (Matthew 18:1-4)

Kind of the same meaning. I'm not sure I believe that about heaven, but he did say it is within us. But again this theme is one that is revissited in many religions.

I want to note, even though the "Thou Shalts" are disposed of, still they're nessesary to being human.

Which is also like the Tao saying, or Lao Tzu saying, we should be as an uncarved block, (which also must be shattered, or is, the concsiosness doco was saying that realy our 'selfs' the "I" is an illusion, just as Buddhists and others do, it is like a 'diamond' mind, fragments parts reflecting to create a sense of self, or some sort of image, when in fact it's just pure, clear, a more articulate person might be able to explain it better, but perhaps the realisation of this is part if not the, shatering, then we are free!) the meaning and the Chinesse word for this show it much better, it simple, it doesn't mean to indulge in any possible things that you desire... just had to add that, it's been on my mind scince I saw somebody, ages ago, say such a thing.

Sorry about all that, in the middle of what you were saying, not obeying my thou shalts.

Ahh, if we can properly chanel this energy learn to use it, (ohh, I would say that it could be something similar to, perhaps in a slightly different form, to that of Kundalini) there might be untold good that could be done... us as super-heros, of course, but for the world/people generaly. People living happily, strongly, not acting like cars with bad engine trouble.

quote:Originally posted by The_Rabbi:

Ok, show of hands here. Who's freaked out for no reason at all, had a chill go through you, the hair on your arms stand stright up, your adrenaline surge, your heart speed up, and then got the unresistable urge to put your fist through a wall, to rip your hair out, to bark at the moon, or just plain holler?

Who has avoided fighting, because you know inside you that when you DO fight, it has to be for a damn good reason, because you lose control and go for the kill?



Raises hand.

Interesting that you have brought up berserkergang. I am of partial Scandinavian descent, and also of Keltic descent.

My question is can berserkergang be brought about by a cathartic experience? I've had one in second grade, and ever since then I've been able to go into frenzies similar to what you've described.

Some days I've had a weird feeling in which I have a surge of energy, and an urge to just go off the wall, followed by a period of lethargy and depression/despair. In my youth when I would get into fights, I'd often overpower people larger than I. A more recent incident was when I flung a kid who punched me and I didn't feel like I exerted any strength at all, just a weird feeling in my head, I swung my arm and he went flying up two feet and fell.

In fact that is one reason why I avoid fights, and mosh pits as much as possible. I used to mosh a lot when I was younger and I would be driven into an uncontrollable frenzy but one night a few years ago I hurt some people very badly albeit unintentionally. Even today when I get caught up in strenuous acitivity or when listening to live music at a show, I clench my jaw, I sweat more than normal, I feel very very hot, and the rate in which I move increases, and my eyes roll and dart uncontrollably as my muscles tense and I start to go wild. I start pacing, and I've been able to leap very high in the beginning stages of it. I don't think I've ever reached a full berserkergang, and I hope I never do after knowing how I get.

Sometimes it will manifest itself in joy, but that's another story for another day.

My background:Scandinavian, English, French, Irish, Cherokee

[This message has been edited by Keltoiberserker (edited 07-21-2004).]

i am also of norse descent, by way of scotland, then through ireland... seems to me that the rage only gets better/stronger with age... i'm 26 now and it seems like anything can set me off sometimes... but! there does seem to be some sort of direction to it... it isn't just a random affliction, but more of a defensive reaction, which, like others, is why i don't fight... when i do, i tend to not blackout, but redout... vision becomes fogged and i get "hot"... really wierd too, cuzz it's hot in an icy sort of way... pain threshold increases dramatically along with physical strength... i've put my hands through more than one wall over the years... and it also seems that i emanate some energy(most of the time) that turns people off... they fear me, or become nervous around me(which is really funny when jehova's witnesses come to my door) and tend not to get too close... but, i really am a nice guy... it's just that things were put in a certain order and shouldn't be screwed with... eye for an eye for me too...

remy

ps- sorry for the long reply, but you'll read it anyway...

This describes me so much that it's sick.

The first time I actually remember a specific experience of it happening was in 3rd or 4th grade. I was fucking around with this chick and told her I was gonna bite her on the arm, completely joking at this point. Suddenly I feel a surge of energy and angryness rush through my body. I bite down. Hard. I draw blood. I love it. I get suspended. It was a really vivid memory.

I find that biting is a good way to get it out. I usually bite my arm, a bit back from the wrist on top because it hurts the least there, but that doesn't stop me from drawing blood most of the time. It scares me when it happens, but now that I have an idea of what it probably is, I might be able to harness it. Thanks.

-rage

I know, I felt a strange sense of freedom when I found out what it was. Like, since I know the cause now, I can learn how to deal with it, to harness it. It won't be able to take me over anymore, and believe me, it has in the past.

I usually kinda growl and start banging my head with my fists until it subsides, but I bet biting will work great, too.

I'm willing to bet there's a lot more of us than I previously thought. It'd be interesting to see what everyone who finds out about it chooses to do with it.

The weird thing is that I'm pretty sure I don't have any viking blood. If I do, it would be way way back in my lineage. I'm half german, a quarter austrian and a quarter greek. Is this exclusivally a viking thing, or are vikings the only ones to have harnessed it? Then again, the whole viking thing was raping and pillaging, so maybe it's possible that a viking raped my ancestors or something.

-rage

No, it is not exclusive to the Norse. The Berserkers are, but there were groups of warriors in numerous other societies and ethnicites who had similar qualities, including the Greeks.

Check out "Greek Maenadism," as well as Celtic Heroic Feats, and Malaysians "Running Amok." It's not strictly a Scandinavian phenomenon.

The Viking thing WAS raping and pillaging, but that was not the Norse thing. Being a Viking was a path that could be justified to them, but it was certainly not the only path in life to the Norse.

Keltic Irish Warriors like Cuchulainn, and the rites described by the Romans of the Gauls make them very much similar to Berserkers.

It's interesting because I used to be very very non-violent as a child, and then one day I snapped and went off the wall on this kid when he was picking on me. I think some great experience happened to trigger the first, to awaken to wolf inside. My Dad flies off the handle very easily, and probably has the same thing.

I don't feel any pain, but an irresistable urge, and I have to try very very hard to control it.

[This message has been edited by Keltoiberserker (edited 08-06-2004).]