Well need i say more that thayt of the topics title? I ant to know your views on wether or not humans are actually evi,, are we created that way, why were like that, etc. so post post post!

There is no such thing as evil and good; there is only destructive and constructive. Many will attempt to label the destruction of a destructive entity as good, or the construction of a constructive entity as good, and the des. of con. as evil, or the con. of des. as evil. In reality, people tend to favor constructive entities, and often label them as good, with their antagonist as evil. Others, the chaotic humans, will label destructive entities as good.

Also, something that occurs: as more destructive entities come into existence, the blance between con. and des. is shifted so that there is always an equality between the two. Let me give an example.

Here in America, I have plenty of food. I can eat and sleep whenever the hell I want. Being in a current state of living that is closer towards my concept of good, more of the world will seem 'evil', ultimately creating a balance between the two.

Now, if I were a starving African boy living in war, poverty, and terror, I would be so far over towards the 'evil' end of living conditions that most of the world would be good, creating a balance.

To ask whether we are truly evil would require evil to be an objective state...with a species as flexible as humans, we can adopt many conditions into a system of duality in which actions can be both good and evil depending on the person viewing the conditions; albeit a pure construct, subconscious duality seems to allow most people to get on with their life without overanalyzing good and evil.

In essence, my answer is that there is no such thing as 'truly evil', as good and evil are quite subjective.

[This message has been edited by Optimus Prime (edited 07-28-2004).]

lol, i liked how you said most ppl get away with not overanalysing it. You really need to have a deep conversation with me sometime, lol i overanalyse everything, or so ive been told anyway, personally i think i just want to know everything in the most depth possible.

The New Model prefers a Trancendentalist view - Man is basically good, but the times and society in which he lives influences him in a negetive way. Ah, for wisdom, one only needs to read poetry.

ModelFifteen

... more ignorant than evil.

Not truly evil. More something like some dish with mold on it.

I don't believe in evil.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

I don't believe in evil.

Cheers,

Lost

LostCause, what do you mean? That there is no absolute definition of evil, and thence it does not exist?

Good and evil are both not only subjective, but relative to a standard state of being. I say animal is neither good or evil in intent, we simply sway to either side from time to time and some of us are moreso on one side of the pendelum or the other.

It is the easier way out...to say that there is no good or evil. In such a perfect world, one cannot be held responsible for their actions.

If it's not wrong to them, it's ok !

Alrighty, Dr. Ruth.

I just read something that relates to this that I liked quite a bit:

"The assertions (mutually contradictory, yet stated all too often with the same force of conviction) 'Humans are essentially good, and they only have to be assisted to act according to their nature', and 'Humans are essentially bad, and they must be prevented from acting on their impulses', are both wrong.

In fact, humans are morally ambivalent: ambivalence resides at the heart of the 'primary scene' of human face-to-face. All subsequent social arrangements - the power-assisted institutions as well as the rationally articulated and pondered roles and duties - deploy that ambivalence as their building material while doing their best to cleanse it from its original sin of being an ambivalence. The latter efforts are either ineffective or result in exacerbating the evil they wish to disarm.

Given the primary structure of human togetherness, a non-ambivalent morality is an existential impossibility. No logically coherent ethical code can 'fit' the essentially ambivalent condition of morality. Neither can rationality 'override' moral impulse; at the utmost, it can silence it and paralyse, thereby rendering the chances of the 'good being done' not stronger, perhaps weaker, than they otherwise would have been.

What follows is that moral conduct cannot be guaranteed; not by better designed contexts for human action, nor by better formed motives of human action. We need to learn how to live without such guarantees, and with the awareness that guarantees will never be offered - that a perfect society, as well as a perfect human being, is not a viable prospect, while attempts to prove the contrary result in more cruelty than humanity, and certainly less morality."

from Postmodern Ethics by Zygmunt Bauman

By the way, the preceding quote is actually one long paragraph in the book, but I separated it to make it easier to read.

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

I don't believe in evil.

Cheers,

Lost

In what sort of evil exaclty. Lost, when you really think about it, there is no such thing as good or evil, right or wrong, everyone is just entitled to their own opinion.

So its okay if I come round your to place and torture whatever small fluffy animals you may have?

quote:Originally posted by inquisitor_11:

So its okay if I come round your to place and torture whatever small fluffy animals you may have?

Who exactly are you talking to?

quote:Originally posted by inquisitor_11:

So its okay if I come round your to place and torture whatever small fluffy animals you may have?

... if I say it is, will you do that..? Does someone's opinion have such great influence on you..?

"Evil" is relative, just like "good".

quote:Originally posted by Optimus Prime:

There is no such thing as evil and good; there is only destructive and constructive. Many will attempt to label the destruction of a destructive entity as good, or the construction of a constructive entity as good, and the des. of con. as evil, or the con. of des. as evil. In reality, people tend to favor constructive entities, and often label them as good, with their antagonist as evil. Others, the chaotic humans, will label destructive entities as good.

Also, something that occurs: as more destructive entities come into existence, the blance between con. and des. is shifted so that there is always an equality between the two. Let me give an example.

Here in America, I have plenty of food. I can eat and sleep whenever the hell I want. Being in a current state of living that is closer towards my concept of good, more of the world will seem 'evil', ultimately creating a balance between the two.

Now, if I were a starving African boy living in war, poverty, and terror, I would be so far over towards the 'evil' end of living conditions that most of the world would be good, creating a balance.

To ask whether we are truly evil would require evil to be an objective state...with a species as flexible as humans, we can adopt many conditions into a system of duality in which actions can be both good and evil depending on the person viewing the conditions; albeit a pure construct, subconscious duality seems to allow most people to get on with their life without overanalyzing good and evil.

In essence, my answer is that there is no such thing as 'truly evil', as good and evil are quite subjective.

[This message has been edited by Optimus Prime (edited 07-28-2004).]

Despite what you say..... cellphones are TRULY EVIL.

I hate cell phones as well...though there are plenty who see good in them.

OP is right on. I would add that the whole good evil thing is just another instance of the dualistic fallacy, which is very seductive, but which has had many unevolved consequences--jihad, for one.

quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:

OP is right on. I would add that the whole good evil thing is just another instance of the dualistic fallacy, which is very seductive, but which has had many unevolved consequences--jihad, for one.

Another consequence is that we have days and nights.

quote:Originally posted by Optimus Prime:

There is no such thing as evil and good; there is only destructive and constructive.

Yes, there are. They are moral concepts.

Human beings are all born evil and must be controlled by a stronger force. Im a carnivouress animal and i kill and eat little kittens < they taste good.........

quote:Originally posted by Uncus:

Yes, there are. They are moral concepts.



con·cept (n)

1) A general idea derived or inferred from specific instances or occurrences.

2) Something formed in the mind; a thought or notion.

3) A scheme; a plan: “began searching for an agency to handle a new restaurant concept”.

#3 most accurately epitomizes our moral sense, in my opinion. Our moral "concepts" is what most readily allows us to define what we perceive as Good or Evil, since it cannot be defined. I like the way Robert Wright addresses morality in his book "The Moral Animal" (page 344):

...the simplest single source of guidance is to bear in mind that the feeling or moral "rightness" is something natural selection created so that people would employ it selfishly. Morality, you could almost say, was designed to be misused by it's own definition. We've seen what may be the rudiments of self-serving moralizing in our close relatives the chimpanzees as they pursue their agendas with righteous indignation. Unlike them, we can distance ourselves from the tendency long enough to use it - long enough, indeed, to construct a whole moral philosophy that consists essentially of attacking it.

Darwin, on grounds such as this, believed that the human species is a moral one - that, in fact, we are the only moral animal. "A moral being is one who is capable of comparing his past and future actions or motives, and of approving or disapproving of them," he wrote. "We have no reason to suppose that any of the lower animals have this capacity."

In this sense, yes, we are moral; we have, at least, the technical capacity for leading a truly examined life; we have self-awareness, memory, foresight, and judgement. But the last several decades of evolutionary thought lead one to emphasize the word 'technical'. Chronically subjecting ourselves to a true and bracing moral scrutiny, and adjusting our behavior accordingly, is not something we are designed for. We are potentially moral animals - which is more than any other animal can say - but we aren't naturally moral animals. To be moral animals, we must realize how thoroughly we aren't.

I agree with Optimus Prime. There is no good or evil. There is only constructive and destructive. And even that is a toss-up, considering where your current struggle lies.

quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

I agree with Optimus Prime. There is no good or evil.

This means you are dismissing morality, moral sense, and moral concepts.

He's dismissing false notions that bind us into a life of slavery for others; abandoning the concepts of morality and that which is brought with it allows one to experience true freedom. When you remove the concept of morality, you show who you truly are. You no longer have inhibitions...your thoughts become your actions. It can lead to a great increase in violence, despair, etc...but I've always been a fan of having freedom over safety.