Have you ever heard an Athiest or Agnostic or anyone but a Christian use the cheap argument "Christians killed in the name of God"....Blah, Blah, Blah......

This argument is not only "Cheap" but "Ignorant." Secularists have set up their own countries, so lets how theyve done, check this out........

quote:In fact, if you examine the atrocities perpetrated by atheists, you find that they have killed more people in the last century than all of the crimes of 2000 years of "church" history combined. Joseph Stalin killed 20 million Soviet citizens between 1929 and 1939 because they were not politically correct. Mao Tse-tung killed 34 to 62 million Chinese during the Chinese civil war of the 1930s and 1940s. Pol Pot, the leader of the Marxist regime in Cambodia, Kampuchea, in the 1970's killed 1.7 million of his own people. Should atheism be blamed for the atrocities of a few prominent atheists? (http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/atrocities.html)

So people haven't killed in the name of God?

I don't understand why your complaining about people using that agruement... It depends how it's used, but it is honestly one of the failings of religion.

Let me be the first to say that Hitler was a christian. http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/tongue.gif)

But if it makes you feel any better, Piper, he was probably catholic!

Uhhh...Hitler was not a Christian. His beliefs stemmed from Norse origins (he believed the arians came to Europe from the top of a glacier or something like that...there were also derivatives of alien integration), and he claimed to be residing under Christian influence in order to convince millions that his ideology was acceptable.

And it worked.

Get your facts straight. FACTS, not fables that you have collected in order to support your backwards view of the world.

[This message has been edited by Digital_Savior (edited 07-30-2004).]

So SniperPiper,

Your big revelation is that Religion is not the largest cause of violence. Why does that matter I am sure it is still in the top ten along with money, race, and land.

The website even gives an exscuse for any member of a church that screws up and kill a few thousand people, It say that only God can decide who is a true Christian.

There's a difference between killing someone because of their beliefs and just plain killing someone.

The article (which doesn't even provide proof to support those numbers) is talking about people who have killed, not people who have killed because of their religious beliefs.

But in any of those cases, theists have killed the majority of people.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Uhhh...Hitler was not a Christian. His beliefs stemmed from Norse origins (he believed the arians came to Europe from the top of a glacier or something like that...there were also derivatives of alien integration), and he claimed to be residing under Christian influence in order to convince millions that his ideology was acceptable.

Sure he was. Just not a very good one.

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

There's a difference between killing someone because of their beliefs and just plain killing someone.

The article (which doesn't even provide proof to support those numbers) is talking about people who have killed, not people who have killed because of their religious beliefs.

But in any of those cases, theists have killed the majority of people.

You don't normally provide proof for anything you say, either...unless it is supplied by someone else, so what difference does it make ?

Believe it, or don't.

The fact is, atheists go around spouting off their ignorance to the fact that Christians are NOT the cause of the majority of wars and deaths on this planet.

Focus !

quote:Originally posted by Tesseract:

Sure he was. Just not a very good one.

No, he wasn't. Please do some research. I generally stay away from making false claims, or uneducated statements.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

You don't normally provide proof for anything you say, either...unless it is supplied by someone else, so what difference does it make ?



I didn't provide proof here because I never claimed I could. I also never gave number.

How in the world do you expect me to show evidence for a number I never gave? http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Since you're still relishing in your immature ways, I'll assume you also mean the other thread. Well, not only did I explain to you that the information was provided to me and I provided it to you, hence I did provided proof, I also asked you to show me where I haven't. I'm still waiting.

quote:Believe it, or don't.

Those are my options? No kidding!

Well, since you gave me my options, I'll choose 'not to believe it'.

After all, you wouldn't believe it if I said Jesus killed 17 million people with his bear hands and offered no proof... right?

quote:

The fact is, atheists go around spouting off their ignorance to the fact that Christians are NOT the cause of the majority of wars and deaths on this planet.



That's why I said theists. Theists do cause the majority of deaths.

You see, its easy to claim Christians are not responsible for the majority of deaths since you could say, "They are not Christians because they killed and that goes against Christs teachings"! That is true. But what is also true is that while they may not be "Christians" they are theists and theists are responsible for the majority of deaths.

Moreover, those who themselves "Christian" Independent of you considering them that or not, also cause more deaths than atheists.

[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 07-31-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

No, he wasn't. Please do some research. I generally stay away from making false claims, or uneducated statements.

He actually was either Christian or Catholic. if you read mein kampf you'd know. But however, he didn't really fight for the Christian religion

The point that I was trying to make is that if an Athiest wants to put all Christians and all Religious people in the same group, and then blame them for Wars and killings in general....they need to look in mirror.



An old and familiar saying comes to mind...

quote:The Pot calling the Kettle black...

The pot(Athiests) is alot blacker.

No Jake Chick comics this time, Sniper? I'm disappointed, I haven't had a good laugh for a while.

But yeah, I do agree, atheists have most likely killed as many people as theists.

[This message has been edited by Social Junker (edited 07-31-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

The pot(Athiests) is alot blacker.

Er.. theists have killed more than atheists. Did that even register with you? How could the "pot (atheists)" be 'blacker'? http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

---

Please Social Junker, please tell me you haven't fallen for that idiocy.

You mean to tell me that Atheists, who number in the 2-10% of the total world population have 'probably killed as much as theists'? Unbelievable!

[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 07-31-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Rust:



Please Social Junker, please tell me you haven't fallen for that idiocy.

You mean to tell me that Atheists, who number in the 2-10% of the total world population have 'probably killed as much as theists'? Unbelievable!

[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 07-31-2004).]

I was thinking more along the lines of crime (like murders), that atheists and theists are equal in killings. But in wars? Hell no!

Even worse. Again, atheists make up what, 2-10% of the total population? It's preposterous to claim that they have caused the majority (50%+) of crimes.

That is no justification for the crimes "belivers" have committed.

You don't justify anything, that is just a way of saying "atheists are worse".

And Hitler was a Christian, he believed he served God, and if you know history and 42 attempts to assassinate him that failed, you might believe that God was on his side.

42 unsuccessful attempts.

What if that was God's punishment?

Again, why would you try to justify the criems of the "believers"? They were scum, atheists who committed crimes against humanity were scum as well.

Are you trying to say that not only "believers" commit crimes? It goes without saying and you don't have to say that the sky is blue.

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:

Have you ever heard an Athiest or Agnostic or anyone but a Christian use the cheap argument "Christians killed in the name of God"....Blah, Blah, Blah......

This argument is not only "Cheap" but "Ignorant." Secularists have set up their own countries, so lets how theyve done, check this out........

{Link}



Heh, well it wouldn't make much sense for a Christian to use that argument, so it's bound to only have been heard flowing from the mouths of "athiests, agnostics and anyone who isn't a Christian."

But it's hardly an argument against Christianity, nor for it. It's obsolete. If Christians did kill a lot of people, what does it matter? That was a long time ago. And if other religions killed more, what does *that* matter? Again, it was almost certainly a long time ago.

Any mass slaughterings that one could consider for a fleeting moment as being recent have either been done under the guise of something else, such as terrorists claiming they do it for Allah, or haven't had the facades, but are still led by mad-men. It's never the religion, it's always the mis-interpretations.

quote:Originally posted by Tesseract:

Let me be the first to say that Hitler was a christian.



Was Hitler a Christian (http://www.answers.org/apologetics/hitquote.html)

Heres another....

quote:I'm talking about Internet atheist types who--incredibly--assert that Adolf Hitler was a Christian. This notion can easily be dispelled by performing a very meager amount of research (http://www.geocities.com/mikem2u/hitler.html)

Anybody can claim theyre "Christian", its really a very broad term. I work with guys that claim theyre "Christian" and cant even pray over their food......

"Hitler was a Christian" is a lame way to cover up the MILLIONS who died at the hands of Secularists, and just because they did it "For the Greater Good" doesnt justify their actions.

quote:Originally posted by Sniper Piper:



"Hitler was a Christian" is a lame way to cover up the MILLIONS who died at the hands of Secularists, and just because they did it "For the Greater Good" doesnt justify their actions.

So when people say "Hitler was a Christian" or "Hitler was a theist" it's them "covering up the millions who have died in the hands pf Secularists"?

So what is it when you say that Pol Pot was an atheist? You covering up the fact that millions more have died in the hands of theists? http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

The atheists aren't killing people because they believe in god. When someone uses the "Christians kill [big number] people in wars" argument, they're talking about killing people in the name of religion. It's totally different.

Also, if an atheist is killing people because of their beliefs, it's still killing in the name of religion (or lack thereof) and it not an argument against atheism. There is no set of beliefs in atheism dictating that you do or don't do anything. Nothing an atheist says or does has anything to do with any other atheists. The same cannot be said for any religion

[This message has been edited by GlitterPunk112358 (edited 08-01-2004).]

Look, NOBODY, absolutely NOBODY, has ever killed someone because they didn't like their beliefs. Murderers are sick fucks, they have problems with their heads...they kill because they're sick. Now, even though they're fucked up, a good portion of them know that without an excuse they couldn't live with the guilt of killing others; the mind, even though fucked up, will naturally search for ANY reason it deems to justify murder. The more extreme the problem with the mind, the less extreme the justification needs to be.

For normal people, the only justifiable reason is self-defense. For nutjobs, the justification can be as simple as the color of the person's shoes. Aside from cases of self-defense, no excuse or reason covers the fact that the mind is defunct and seeks to tear away life. Fundamentalists don't kill because people disagree; they kill because they're fucked up in the head, and use their beliefs, which are acceptable to them due to mental problems, to justify their want for blood.

Stalin, Constantine, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, Khan, Alexander the Great...none of them killed because of beliefs or any other reason. They killed because some wiring was wrong and they viewed their power as more important than human life; these people used religion, politics, and land as excuses to satisfy a part of the mind that is not normally very strong.

"I don't like Mondays"

ok so i didnt really look into the links or anything or the posts for that matter, but i get the gist. the point is sniper piper, that it is incredibly disgusting that ANY violence is propogated by an institution that claims complete love. no killing is expected.

oh and Hitler was a christian.

well at least he filled the criteria that most "christians" do, he showed up at church every once in a while.

Hitler was not a christian.

Any proof that he was?

And although no one has really directly mentioned the holocaust the subject of this "hitler was/wasn't a christian" talk comes from how many he killed, correct?

Well I am not going to assert to everyone that "the holocaust never happened", but it is my personal opinion that no, the holocaust did not happen.

whenever i heard someone say that the holocaust never happened, i thought they were just plain retarded. But i want to give you a chance. So please explain why?

I am actually interested in your reasons, so don't think I am attacking you.

quote:Originally posted by aTribeCalledSean:

oh and Hitler was a christian.

well at least he filled the criteria that most "christians" do, he showed up at church every once in a while.

... however it doesn't mean he was a Christian=/

... it proves he considered himself a Christian. Just like many samurais were Buddhists, though they killed each other, which is actuaslly isn't very Buddhist=/

oh i know, it was supposed to be ironic.



sigh, another failed attempt at humor. http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

quote:Originally posted by MasterPython:

The website even gives an exscuse for any member of a church that screws up and kill a few thousand people, It say that only God can decide who is a true Christian.

I am following you here, MasterPython. It does feel like a disavowal of Christians who screwed up too much for reasons of PR.

quote:Originally posted by Tesseract:

Sure he was. Just not a very good one.

With all his pagan and occult stuff mixed up into his ideology, what makes you conclude Hitler was "not a very good Christian", rather than "a good pagan" ?

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

The article (which doesn't even provide proof to support those numbers)

I have even seen the number of 3 million killed by the Red Khmers in Cambodia, rather than the 1.7 million mentioned.

quote:Originally posted by bite_me:

He actually was either Christian or Catholic. if you read mein kampf you'd know. But however, he didn't really fight for the Christian religion

So he was born into the Catholic religion and baptized just as anyone else, and he wrote Mein Kampf while in prison early in the twenties I think. By that time the national-socialist party hadn't been founded yet (I suppose) and his pagan/occult interests may not yet have been sparked.

Even if he might have been called a Catholic earlier on, this changed markedly later.

quote:Originally posted by Optimus Prime:

Stalin, Constantine, Mao, Hitler, Pol Pot, Khan, Alexander the Great...none of them killed because of beliefs or any other reason. They killed because some wiring was wrong and they viewed their power as more important than human life; these people used religion, politics, and land as excuses to satisfy a part of the mind that is not normally very strong.



You can't put Alexander the Great in the same bag as those others, who killed millions of innocent and their own people. Alexander the Great conquered countries and fought battles.

Those who died were soldiers.

quote:Originally posted by Uncus:

I have even seen the number of 3 million killed by the Red Khmers in Cambodia, rather than the 1.7 million mentioned.



I've heard 7,000

quote:Originally posted by Uncus:

I have even seen the number of 3 million killed by the Red Khmers in Cambodia, rather than the 1.7 million mentioned.



And that refutes my statement how?

I love how this thread has been successfully hijacked into a "Was Hitler a Christian?" thread, with the occasional pot shot at other dictators and despots of history.

Religion or the lack thereof is not to blame for any war or murder any more than the gun/knife/chainsaw/car/rock/etc. is that is used to murder someone. Religion is a tool abused by men to kill eachother, just as those other tools are.

Do not blame the tool, blame the source.

Intolerance, greed, fear, jealousy...these are the causes. If you look back far enough, they are always the causes.

Overcome those four "demons" within yourself, and encourage others to do so as well, and one day, perhaps things will be "on earth, as it is in heaven"......

-=CW=-

quote:Originally posted by Uncus:



You can't put Alexander the Great in the same bag as those others, who killed millions of innocent and their own people. Alexander the Great conquered countries and fought battles.

Those who died were soldiers.

I don't give a shit WHO they killed, I'm looking at WHY they killed. They were greedy, they wanted power, and killing was how they got it.