Okay, Satan is supposed to be some kind of "fallen angel" right? He did something God didn't like or whatever, right? So God "punishes" him by making him King of torture in Hell? If Satan is bad...wouldn't he like torturing souls? So what the hell is God doing here? Rewarding Satan? That doesn't make sense if God is all for rewarding the goody goodys with Heavan and whatnot. Someone please explain.

quote:Originally posted by Cheshire_Kiti:

Okay, Satan is supposed to be some kind of "fallen angel" right? He did something God didn't like or whatever, right? So God "punishes" him by making him King of torture in Hell? If Satan is bad...wouldn't he like torturing souls? So what the hell is God doing here? Rewarding Satan? That doesn't make sense if God is all for rewarding the goody goodys with Heavan and whatnot. Someone please explain.

*sigh*

Satan is NOT the "lord of hell".

Satan knows that at the end, he will be thrown into the lake of fire, and he wants to take as many people as he can with him.

God threw him out of heaven, but no one is in hell YET.

And satan won't be enjoying hell any more then anyone else!

Thats one christian point of view, although it isnt exactly what I believe.

But the point is, no informed Christian will tell you that Satan is the lord of hell.

quote:Originally posted by dearestnight_falcon:

no one is in hell YET.

I've never heard that one. Are you sure it didn't come out of your ass?

quote:Originally posted by GlitterPunk112358:

I've never heard that one. Are you sure it didn't come out of your ass?

Read Revelations. The dead are judged then, and no sooner.

Of course, views vary amoung Christians, but I really can't see how anyone could think that people are Judged immeadiately when they die, when its pretty clear that all the dead are judged more or less at the same time.

quote:Originally posted by Cheshire_Kiti:

Okay, Satan is supposed to be some kind of "fallen angel" right? He did something God didn't like or whatever, right? So God "punishes" him by making him King of torture in Hell? If Satan is bad...wouldn't he like torturing souls? So what the hell is God doing here? Rewarding Satan? That doesn't make sense if God is all for rewarding the goody goodys with Heavan and whatnot. Someone please explain.

Satan is about as real as the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy or Santa Clause.

Take it for the metaphor that it is, try not to let it frighten you, and remember:

Hell Does Not Exist.

Word.

quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

Satan is about as real as the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy or Santa Clause.

Take it for the metaphor that it is, try not to let it frighten you, and remember:

Hell Does Not Exist.



Are you a fundamentalist?

Oh, in reply to the original poster, god isn't "rewarding the goody goodies" per se.

Its more rewarding the people who choose his way.

Conforming to society's perception of "good" won't get you into heaven, nor will it get you into hell.

Acception or Rejection of the Gospel is what determines that.

quote:Originally posted by inquisitor_11:

Are you a fundamentalist?

Haha, how does AngryFemme sound at all like a fundamentalist?



Yes, I've heard that thing about that no one is in heaven or hell right now, they have to sit and rot in the earth until Judgment Day, when God sorts them out. For me, that whole idea is just another nail in the coffin of Christianity for me.

quote:Originally posted by Cheshire_Kiti:

Okay, Satan is supposed to be some kind of "fallen angel" right? He did something God didn't like or whatever, right? So God "punishes" him by making him King of torture in Hell? If Satan is bad...wouldn't he like torturing souls? So what the hell is God doing here? Rewarding Satan? That doesn't make sense if God is all for rewarding the goody goodys with Heavan and whatnot. Someone please explain.

This is a common mistconception. Remember Satan was/is an angel and angels don't have freewill. However, he was gods favorite angel and on the matter of humans god granted Satan his opinion and found Satan disagreed with God. In response God granted Satan his own domain and 13 angels to do help him in his quest to prove to God that humans are not worthy of Gods love.

It's true, in the bible, God seems displeased that Satan disagrees but God granted Satan an opinion so he obviously wasn't very upset.

Hope that cleared some stuff up.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by dearestnight_falcon:

Oh, in reply to the original poster, god isn't "rewarding the goody goodies" per se.

Its more rewarding the people who choose his way.

Conforming to society's perception of "good" won't get you into heaven, nor will it get you into hell.

Acception or Rejection of the Gospel is what determines that.

and thats why i dont beleive in christianity. I could follow every moral lesson in the bible but if i dont accept jesus as my savior i'm a sinner. In sure that thats not what Jesus wanted.

quote:Originally posted by Cheshire_Kiti:

Okay, Satan is supposed to be some kind of "fallen angel" right? He did something God didn't like or whatever, right? So God "punishes" him by making him King of torture in Hell? If Satan is bad...wouldn't he like torturing souls? So what the hell is God doing here? Rewarding Satan? That doesn't make sense if God is all for rewarding the goody goodys with Heavan and whatnot. Someone please explain.

Satan was cast out of heaven because he wanted to "overthrough" or be as powerfull and allmighty as god.he was made the keeper of the souls of the damned. then when the rapture happens god takes away the worthy or whatever the correct word would be and the rest are left behind. then the 7 year tribulation and all that happens.the anti christ comes to power rules the world and is eventualy cast down and destroyed by god.it pretty much something for him to ocupy his time that god saw fit for him to do until the final battle between good and evil is fought. now im no preacher or pastor so dont quote me on this.thats how i see it but there may be flaws so dont take it word for word.

quote:Originally posted by Steve Rogers:

and thats why i dont beleive in christianity. I could follow every moral lesson in the bible but if i dont accept jesus as my savior i'm a sinner. In sure that thats not what Jesus wanted.

SEE there it is. its common belife (for some at least) that good deeds and being a good person will make you saved and allowed into heaven.you must except him as you savior and know that you are a sinner and that you are not perfect. You must also except and believe the fact that god sent his son jesus to die for your sins so that whoever belived in him could have everlasting life.

John 3:16

For god so loved the world

that he gave his only begoten son

for whosoever beleived in him

could not perish

but have everlasting life

John 3:17 (not exact wording put its pretty close and it get the message across)

God sent his son

into the world

not to condemn the world

but through him that they

might be saved.

quote:Originally posted by Steve Rogers:

and thats why i dont beleive in christianity. I could follow every moral lesson in the bible but if i dont accept jesus as my savior i'm a sinner. In sure that thats not what Jesus wanted.

Not what Jesus wanted? have you read the Gospels? Jesus talks about hell more then anyone else!

This is probably odd from a Christian, but I don't actually think there is physical torture in hell. Who knows, it might even be quite pleasant -physically-.

But to be there, realizing all the times you had rejected the chance to be with God, THAT would be the torture.

well, thats sort of not entirely it,

since for the people there, being with god WOULD be torture, so its merciful that there IS a place apart from God, rather then them ceasing to exist.

But thats just some of my ideas, and most Christians would probably disagree, but meh.

quote:Originally posted by Auron547:

SEE there it is. its common belife (for some at least) that good deeds and being a good person will make you saved and allowed into heaven.you must except him as you savior and know that you are a sinner and that you are not perfect. You must also except and believe the fact that god sent his son jesus to die for your sins so that whoever belived in him could have everlasting life.

John 3:16

For god so loved the world

that he gave his only begoten son

for whosoever beleived in him

could not perish

but have everlasting life

John 3:17 (not exact wording put its pretty close and it get the message across)

God sent his son

into the world

not to condemn the world

but through him that they

might be saved.

heres the problem with that, and you've probably all heard this argument before. That means that everyone in the entire world that hasn't accepted jesus as their savior will suffer forever in a lake of unquenchable fire. That includes people in the remote himalays, islands, amazon, steppes of china and tibet, etc. that have never even heard of Jesus. I find that very contrary to an omnibenevolent god. Either you gotta change your requiremnets for heaven, or you need to stop calling god all loving, becuase choosing your vengeance or "justice" over your so called omnibenevolence is hypocritical. All loving should trump vengeance or justice. People always say stuff like "well what about hitler, shouldn't he suffer forever", and I would have to honestly say no. Forever never ends, You should stop calling yourself christian if you can't find it in your heart to forgive someone if you knew that they would suffer ETERNAL (just think about the concept of "forever") punishment.

I remember this one quite I had when talking to afew people I knew about God;

"God loves you, he has mercy for you, but piss him off once and your getting butt raped in hell"

According to various aspects the bible, namely Revelation, people are just sitting up in purgatory/limbo awaiting to see just how merciful their God is, was or is going to be. Right now, hell doesn't exist according to Revelation, and if God is truely all merciful, with all the people that repent on their death bed, it never will exist.

quote:Remember Satan was/is an angel and angels don't have freewill. However, he was gods favorite angel and on the matter of humans god granted Satan his opinion and found Satan disagreed with God.

Wow, that God must be a mean bastard. He takes the angel he likes the most and give him an opinion that he knows will differ to his, and then punishes the guy for it. Also, am I the only person who finds it kind of funny that you capitalised Satan but not God?

quote:Originally posted by inquisitor_11:

Are you a fundamentalist?

No. I am a humanist. Humanism is a philosophy, world view, or lifestance based on naturalism—the conviction that the universe or nature is all that exists or is real. Humanism serves, for many humanists, some of the psychological and social functions of a religion, but without belief in deities, transcendental entities, miracles, life after death, and the supernatural. Humanists seek to understand the universe by using science and its methods of critical inquiry—logical reasoning, empirical evidence, and skeptical evaluation of conjectures and conclusions—to obtain reliable knowledge. Humanists affirm that humans have the freedom to give meaning, value, and purpose to their lives by their own independent thought, free inquiry, and responsible, creative activity. Humanists stand for the building of a more humane, just, compassionate, and democratic society using a pragmatic ethics based on human reason, experience, and reliable knowledge—an ethics that judges the consequences of human actions by the well-being of all life on Earth.

...and I'm getting along just fine http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

[This message has been edited by AngryFemme (edited 08-06-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

Humanists stand for the building of a more humane, just, compassionate, and democratic society using a pragmatic ethics based on human reason, experience, and reliable knowledge—an ethics that judges the consequences of human actions by the well-being of all life on Earth.

...and I'm getting along just fine http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

[This message has been edited by AngryFemme (edited 08-06-2004).]



hmmmm, sounds alot like what Jesus meant for christians to be.

quote:Originally posted by aTribeCalledSean:

heres the problem with that, and you've probably all heard this argument before. That means that everyone in the entire world that hasn't accepted jesus as their savior will suffer forever in a lake of unquenchable fire. That includes people in the remote himalays, islands, amazon, steppes of china and tibet, etc. that have never even heard of Jesus. I find that very contrary to an omnibenevolent god. Either you gotta change your requiremnets for heaven, or you need to stop calling god all loving, becuase choosing your vengeance or "justice" over your so called omnibenevolence is hypocritical. All loving should trump vengeance or justice. People always say stuff like "well what about hitler, shouldn't he suffer forever", and I would have to honestly say no. Forever never ends, You should stop calling yourself christian if you can't find it in your heart to forgive someone if you knew that they would suffer ETERNAL (just think about the concept of "forever") punishment.



God says everyone will hear...everyone will have the opportunity before they die.

How would a just God vindicate Himself if He allowed people to send themselves to Hell, simply because they didn't know any better ?

quote:Originally posted by inquisitor_11:

Are you a fundamentalist?

You make me laugh, you have no idea what a fundamentalist really is. They first of all believe in the bible (strike one against your assessment) and second they believe nothing is a metaphor (there WAS a burning bush, there WERE tounge of fire. God made the universe in 7 Earth days.)