Honestly, I'm tired of this generalization. I have never seen a christian walk up to someone to witness, and as the person is walking away, continue to holler at them so they can not be ignored.

That my friends, is something being forced down your throat. I'm not saying that it does not happen, just not anywhere near the frequency most individuals claim.

What I really dislike(someone's going to say, "we don't care what you don't like!") is people misconstruing good intentions, i.e. "hi, how are you today. Do you believe in God?" with, "Hey YOU OVER THERE! YOU BETTER GET SAVED! oh no, you're not getting in the car.... YOU WILL HEAR WHAT I HAVE TO SAY!" type of crap.

It's real convenient to associate good, polite intentions with ideas being shoved down ones throat if your goal is to make christianity appear in the worst light possible.

Another pet peave of mine is for individuals to say that all religion is concerned with is taking/stealing ones money. If anyone feels that way, reply to this ans then we can have a nice discussion along those lines.

I'll read your post in a second, just saw the first line of the post. All I can say is I'm glad this wasn't another dumbass thread where someone bitches about Christianity being force fed then 5 minutes later is bitching about themselves being right and all the religious fucks need to die, etc.

but it is, you see. they want to make you christian. they will try and convince you to be christian, and talk about it for as long as you let them.

that is being shoved down your throat. just because they do not shout or use forceful language does not make it okay. unsolicited selling of ideas in a situation where harassment is not expected is not polite, no matter how softly you speak.

I'm an atheist, but I completely agree with you here. A good deal of people who are atheists don't honestly think there is no God, they're just really pissed off at a certain religion and are taking a break; during that break they're overly aggressive towards their former faith and try to make it look as bad as possible, usually through exaggeration.

I've seen some really crazy attempts at witnessing, but they are really friggin' rare. The closest thing to having religion shoved down one's throat is Jehova's Witnesses...and they happen to be very polite and usually don't come back if you request nicely that they don't.

I've seen more shoving down throats from fellow atheists than I have from Christians...which is odd, because according to census information Christians outnumber atheists a good 19:1 in my State. I'm going to go ahead and blame that on angsty teen "rebels".

the key RAOVQ is that you said, "as long as you let them." Of course they will go on for as long as they can because they(as well as myself) believe that the eternal soul of the non-believer is at risk. so, out of love for you, they try their best until it is obvious there is no getting through. then they must let the Holy Spirit deal with you.

quote:Originally posted by choytw:

then they must let the Holy Spirit deal with you.

I found that line amusing.

(setting: a Mafia-owned Italian resturant)

"There's no getting through to him. Let the Holy Spirit deal with him, Frankie."

"Gee, boss, don't you think that's extreme? Can't we just rough him up?"

"No, Frankie, he's gonna have to deal with the Holy Spirit, no way around it."

quote:Originally posted by RAOVQ:

but it is, you see. they want to make you christian. they will try and convince you to be christian, and talk about it for as long as you let them.

that is being shoved down your throat. just because they do not shout or use forceful language does not make it okay. unsolicited selling of ideas in a situation where harassment is not expected is not polite, no matter how softly you speak.

So, then it is ok to teach evolution in public schools, even though it against our beliefs, just as long as the teachers don't scream and shout ?

I consider that being shoved down my kids' throats, since I can't stop them, and my children MUST go to school.

*raises an eyebrow*

*laughs at Social Junker*

That was pretty funny... http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

So, then it is ok to teach evolution in public schools, even though it against our beliefs, just as long as the teachers don't scream and shout ?

I consider that being shoved down my kids' throats, since I can't stop them, and my children MUST go to school.

*raises an eyebrow*

Evolution is science.

Christianity isn't.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

So, then it is ok to teach evolution in public schools, even though it against our beliefs, just as long as the teachers don't scream and shout ?

I consider that being shoved down my kids' throats, since I can't stop them, and my children MUST go to school.

*raises an eyebrow*



I agree with you (but I do agree with evolution, as well), it is a difficult decision to decide what should be taught in schools. Ideally, just the facts should be taught at school, but that begs the question, what are the facts? I guess I look at it this way: there is no way the School Board is going to make everyone happy, so they allow the facts that are viewed as "correct and modern" by the majority, and that's it.

All you can do is present a different view to your children when they are home from school, so they can get both sides of the coin. I think it is important to teach kids that no everything they learn in school is true.

quote:Originally posted by RAOVQ:

but it is, you see. they want to make you christian. they will try and convince you to be christian, and talk about it for as long as you let them.

that is being shoved down your throat. just because they do not shout or use forceful language does not make it okay. unsolicited selling of ideas in a situation where harassment is not expected is not polite, no matter how softly you speak.

This is exactly how i feel about non-SMOKERS.. it is unsolicitad selling of an idea.

People who "shove their ideas down your throat" really and sincerely feel that they are being true to themselves and altruistic towards you, kinda doing you a favor by helping you to see the error of your ways and teaching you what's "right". Rarely is it done out of malice. Don't let it get to you so hard, choytw.

We're all guilty of it, on some level -it's not just the Bible-thumpers. It would probably be more realistic (and even more compassionate) if we didn't hold it against people for trying to shove their ideas down our throats. I even know some diehard evolutionists or wannabe psychoanalyzers who get extremely long-winded and downright confrontational when it comes to exploiting their beliefs. I certainly can go overboard at times when I feel strongly about something.

All of our ideals are in competition with each other, our attention spans being the grand prize. Our complex brains and our gift of language made us into the perfect vehicles for replicating our ideas. We basically can't help it. Sure, some groups of people are more annoying at it than others. The one thing that really irks me is when a christian friend (and I have many) tells me they are saddened, and "praying for my soul" and hates it that I am going to hell for not accepting our lord jesus christ as my holy saviour, you know the rest... Still, I don't hold contempt for that person. They really and truly believe this! They think they're helping out! You almost have to pause and feel the warmfuzzies of their blind sincerity. And think about how vehemently you defend your own ideas or beliefs. I liken it to just another mechanical-like symptom of how memes thrive to infect our heads.

My point is: As long as their are ideas (i.e.: memes) competing for our attention, there are ALWAYS going to be people preaching their respective 'gospels'. A good trick to ward off especially annoying or pushy people when they get too far out there is to just ignore them. Say "uh-huh" and "is that so?" and move your head about at the appropriate times. Eventually they'll wind down and tire of hearing themselves drone on. And you can always walk away.

quote:Originally posted by The_Rabbi:

Evolution is science.

Christianity isn't.

Evolution is a misinterpretation of scientific evidence, which would make it a belief, not a science.

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

Evolution is a misinterpretation of scientific evidence, which would make it a belief, not a science.

Do you have anything more to add to that, or back it up?

quote:Originally posted by Optimus Prime:

A good deal of people who are atheists don't honestly think there is no God, they're just really pissed off at a certain religion and are taking a break...

How agnostic of them to do that.

I don't know why people have such a big problem with Christians, or any other religion for that matter. As others have stated, they are simply doing what they think is right. They believe that they are helping any non-believers. Most that I have seen WILL back down if you ask them to let it be.

On the other hand, I find it very interesting to sit down with anyone, of any religion, just to hear them out and share my views with them as well. Too many are quick to dismiss other religions, rather than actually learning from them. Everyone has something to offer.

As Optimus said, and I think most of us realize, it is mainly those angsty teens that are pissed at their parents for being "stupid Christian retards". Hopefully they will grow beyond that at some point.

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

Evolution is a misinterpretation of scientific evidence, which would make it a belief, not a science.

Misinterpretation based upon whose judgment?

EVERYTHING could be misinterpreted. All science could be wrong.

But we still teach it, because it is science, and the majority feels that it should be taught. Evolution is a part of science. It is not a belief structure, any more than the existence of mathematics is a belief. Personally, I'm not fucking Pythagorus.

Just because you don't believe in it, doesn't make it invalid to be taught. I don't believe that the Confederacy was fairly represented in my high school American History class, but they still teach that the Civil War was about them wanting to keep slaves. Nevermind that the majority of Southeerner never owned slaves, were too poor to own slaves, probably worked positions only slightly above slaves, and were only pissed off that the Yankees wanted to tell them what they could or could not do.

But does that make it wrong to teach kids about the Civil War?

quote:Originally posted by Optimus Prime:

I'm an atheist, but I completely agree with you here. A good deal of people who are atheists don't honestly think there is no God, they're just really pissed off at a certain religion and are taking a break; during that break they're overly aggressive towards their former faith and try to make it look as bad as possible, usually through exaggeration.

I've seen some really crazy attempts at witnessing, but they are really friggin' rare. The closest thing to having religion shoved down one's throat is Jehova's Witnesses...and they happen to be very polite and usually don't come back if you request nicely that they don't.

I've seen more shoving down throats from fellow atheists than I have from Christians...which is odd, because according to census information Christians outnumber atheists a good 19:1 in my State. I'm going to go ahead and blame that on angsty teen "rebels".



*slow clap* thank you for showing the true face of athiesm, but these whiny little bitch ass 13 year olds. Like he said, most don't deny God completely, they are just angry at institutionilized faiths.

i could make up a crazy religion that doesn't belive in numbers. could i complain about schools teaching it then? petition to get maths cut from the syllabus? anyway, you may have to send your kids to school, but which school is totally up to you.

and yes, i agree, it is the same as door to door salesmen, telephone surveys and those people in shopping centres with clipboards. they are selling a product i have no interest in at a time and place where i have every expectation not to be harrassed.

non-smokers is different. smokers have no right to make the air unbreathable. non-smokers have every right to defend thier access to non-tainted air.

What pisses me off the most is not people trying to force their beliefs on me, but people who feel superoir because of their beliefs. These people will not even bother to share their beliefs but just tell me that I will burn in Hell for all eternity or something like that. They seem to take pleasure in this idea that I will suffer un-imaginable pain for all eternity.

You should talk to some of them. In chats that have anything to do with religion, if you mention you're atheist, they start with "I'll pray for you, string", "you're going to hell if you think like that", or "Look inside yourself, you will find god". Well, I obviously don't care where you think I'm going, hell or no hell, don't tell me what to believe. Today I actually heard a Christian say "Why respect other religions when Christianity is the truth" (In an Ares or Warez p2p chat). What kind of shit is that. I don't believe in any religion but I'm not a dick about it. I don't claim to know I'm right and neither should anyone, IMO. I never have religious discussions outside of chat rooms cause no one would wanna talk but if people are usually anything like this, they ARE forcing Christianity down our throats.

I'm starting a thread about evolution. Check it out.

quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

Do you have anything more to add to that, or back it up?



yes i do have things to back it up, but i wont because [B]I[/QUOTE] am not equiped enough to debate this subject with people that are much more educated in science than i. I understand science and scientific theories, but not well enough to debate effectively. EIL, has taught me this lesson.

quote:Originally posted by RAOVQ:

non-smokers is different. smokers have no right to make the air unbreathable. non-smokers have every right to defend thier access to non-tainted air.

tell this to me again, after polution from cars is cleaned up... or atleast, when the only air polution you create or contribute to (taking the bus, coal power-plants providing electricity for your computer, the polution produced to make tiolet paper that you use, etc. would be contributing) , is from your own flatulance.

quote:Originally posted by MasterPython:

What pisses me off the most is not people trying to force their beliefs on me, but people who feel superoir because of their beliefs. These people will not even bother to share their beliefs but just tell me that I will burn in Hell for all eternity or something like that. They seem to take pleasure in this idea that I will suffer un-imaginable pain for all eternity.



I was telling my pa about Totse and the MGCBTSOoYG debates, and he exploded, saying that people are making a mountain out of a mole hill, if people would just live a christian life....,

He seemed to find it almost impossible that atheism was more than a definition, and he seemed to have a hard time understanding that people raised from a differant belief than christianity, would continue their belief after hearing about God.

Believe it or not, he is a very smart person, and generally can debate pretty well on most subjects.

The point to this story is: It may not be actually a feeling of superiority, it may just be that their understanding of the Bible is so clear cut and anyone that can read should be able to see it just as clearly as they can. The idea that someone could hold to a different belief after having been exposed, is such a foriegn concept, that they appear to come off as feeling superior... kinda like you might feel after having taught someone how to tie a shoelace for 30 years and they still dont get it...

I think that if Christians truly believe the shit that they say they do, they damn well should be forcing it down people's throats. You're going to let me go to hell for all fucking eternity because you want to respect my beliefs that you believe are wrong? What the fuck? No. By all means, spread the word to everyone. But because you're wrong (no, not "I think" or "I believe" you're wrong. You're just plainly and simply wrong), I'll tell you to fuck off when you try to convert me.

They believe they're helping, leave them to it. I do find it most annoying that most other religions tend to practice bigotry, masquerading as 'preaching' or 'saving your souls'. I believe that if the Goddess has need of you, you will find Wicca yourself.

For some REAL Christianity shoved down your throat, try www.jesus-is-lord.com/wicca.htm (http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/wicca.htm) to get an idea of how misinformed he is, then go the homepage and take a look at why his website is being banned for inciting racial hatred...

EDIT: Just to say, witches DO NOT worship Satan, or Lucifer, or the Devil or any such thing, these are, after all, Christian concepts, nor is the horned god called Lucifer... had to say this because his entire anti-witch rant is based on the opposite being true.

[This message has been edited by ChaosPenguin (edited 08-11-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

*laughs at Social Junker*

That was pretty funny... http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

I'm Christian, I respect all religions, but I don't believe that they are true.

I'm Christian, I believe that what I believe is true. It's a belief that is almost like I believe that I have two hands. It's so true to me that I no longer need "proof". It's so true to me that I am called closed-minded, and a drag to the intellectual society. It's so true to me that I do want to tell people THE truth so that they will see how magnificent my Lord God is. It's so true to every other Christian that Christianity and conservatism is becoming the unpopular thing to believe in. It's so true to me that I don't understand how to explain why it is so real to me.

I'm Christian, and I am one of the ten or so Christians on the board.