This is just some little theory of mine, I've kicked around in the inner-recesses of my mind from time to time. I try to take lessons scriptures such as the Bible lay out, but I try not to take them too literally. A meaning within a meaning within a meaning, sort of ambigious really. Anyway, this is on part of the Adam & Eve story, and I welcome any reply from any party. Whether it be hardcore christian who takes bible word for word as literal, someone with thinkin' somewhat parellel to mine as in everything we experience is somewhat of another piece to the puzzle (how ya like that I'm a puzzle piece!), even hardcore athiests. Though I'd prefer people keep an open mind, assholic coments are not needed and not only demean this thread but very heavily just makes the commentor look like an uneducated jack ass.

Now,

Adam and Eve, if memory serves, were the first kids on the block. They recieved paradise, and presumably had this paradise for all eternity. Beauty and splendor around every corner for the eyes to feast upon, a world free of troubles worries or jerk offs who cut you off while you're already late for work. They were only forbidden to taste from one thing, this tree that contained "knowledge".

Q:Knowledge? What's that?

A http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)on't worry about it, just stay away from it.

So they do, for the time being. But being human (human being: what constitutes our being? sorry getting off track) they were tempted by the forbidden fruit. "Forbidden Fruit" was offered to Eve by a "Snake". I'm not the only one who sees the context am I? The snake being Adam's penis, and the forbidden fruit being sex. Good paradise sex, hmmmmmm.

Once they had tasted the "forbidden fruit" God came before them and they quickly covered up out of shame. I know I'm not the only one who's done a quick cover up while laying down some loving and an unexpected visitor came in. Be it your father, your child, or just a friend.

But covered up? Shame? Where did Adam and Eve get these ideas?

I think the "forbidden fruit" (or sex) brought them the "knowledge" of judgement and shame. After knocking sweet boots Adam reflected on his sweetness, realizing that it was good and that he needed eve for this. Thinking further into it, he would realize he needed to be "good enough" for eve to hit them skins, but he was only human. He was unshaven and rough, he had a little chubby belly from too many paradise margarita's. His genitals are protrusive and goofy looking, his skin not as soft and lovely as hers, he will cover up and deny her discomfort.

Eve reflected on hittin' them skins as well, thinkin' "wow that was good" and having similar realizations as Adam that she needed him to feel that good, that she would have to be good enough. She's too fat, oh my god her feet are dirty and disgusting, she hope he's not mad at her, she thinks he looks mad at her. She covers up and denies him discomfort.

Basic human connection after this becomes complicated and confusing, emotions that nature never intended come into the mix. Adam and Eve's partaking of the "forbidden fruit" have made them disguise the true being of themselves because they think that the disguise is what the other one wants, but it is the trueness of their being the they both want from eachother.

Confusing ain't it?

For shame, that they cannot enjoy the paradise for the experience has confused them into thinking a different kind of love exists worthy of their attention and deception. How can they see the love that binds us to paradise now?

You have given me a new look at the bible story of good ol' adam and eve. Altho your story does make sense, I can give you the best and most logic reply you will probablly recieve, What you stated may very well be true, and all your theory's match up with the bibles word, but the fact of the matter is, its irrelevant to the main story. What you said, COULD very well be true, than again, it might not be. There is no deeming evidence that proves otherwise.

Wether this be true or not, the main moral of the story stays the same. Your accusations evedently do make the story more tempting on adams part, and more evedent on why he sinned. (If it where a sinful fruit, why eat of that IT? was he not surrounded by fruit? But there was only one EVE , which if i put myself in adams shoes, or should i say mindset, it is more tempting.)

In conclusion , I only leave you with a distorted answer, i hope it makes sense.

[This message has been edited by Watch This! (edited 08-14-2004).]

Great Job. I go to a Catholic school, and my teacher has already proposed this idea, but I'm assuming you came up with it mostly on your own.

You could be very right one.

heres a point in your favor. Biblically "knowledge" often means sex. "Abram had knowdledge of Sarai", "I have not yet known a man". These meant sex. So this fruit of knowledge could very well be sexual fruit.

Heres a point against you.

Genesis 1:28 says.....

28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

It would be hypocritical for God to tell them to populate the earth, but not eat of the fruit of sex. eh?

Food for thought though, great thought process Traffic Lights.

I'm not 100% sure what the consensus view of the morality of the forbidden fruit story is, but my take on my take of it (if that makes any sense) is that it's the "origin" of judgement, fear, deception. More story to explain, but genesis is good. Genesis as in begining, not the name of the book.

People have judgement of themselves and other people based on fear, sometimes out of fear of other people's judgements. So they attempt to deceive, and inevitably deceive themselves. Now they can't enjoy life because there is a great balancing act of lies and upon lies, and judging others before they have a chance to judge them(like that will help), and having a great sence of terror out of all of this and anything they don't already have "knowledge" of. It really is a pity.

Like I said, it's a good thought.

But Genesis (the book) kinda disproves it.

Disproves it if you look at the book as a set-in-stone irrefutable sequential record of history, but I don't. It's more a collection of stories that have lessons if you read between the lines and pick through ambiguity. I don't see them as canceling eachother out because I don't seem them as connected in that way. A different lesson to be learned by a different story that just happen to be in the same chapter.

I don't know I may just be looking too deeply/not deeply enough into things. I often look for meaning imbedded in the "reality".

To Sean:

That is assuming that the additions in Genesis of fruitfulness were not simply added later by tribal elders and fanatics as an excuse to capitalize on local resources and an excuse to have sex with their wives more than their wives may have preferred to. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Freer Mage:

To Sean:

That is assuming that the additions in Genesis of fruitfulness were not simply added later by tribal elders and fanatics as an excuse to capitalize on local resources and an excuse to have sex with their wives more than their wives may have preferred to. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)



Word.

I was just taking it as most christians would, fairly literally.

As I said, it's an already addressed, but very valid theory.

Totse needs more people like you, Sean.

The serpent is a chthonic symbol linked to Woman and to the world of Chaos and matter in just about every culture. What it actually means is a new, degraded level of consciousness, rooted in the body and the ego and in all states inferior to the highest, active one, was awakened in Eve, being woman and of the earth and man, whereas Adam is of God. He loses his divine identity in Eve.

So you have Adam, the former glory, an incarnation of the divine, and Eve, a manifestation of the world, of matter, of the natural, who is "tricked" or lured or seduced by the serpent power, the vital force of life on earth. Adam, rather than realize this force's function and inferiority to his own divine one, accepts it and relates to it through Eve, and, having a conciousness now rooted in physical life, in the senses, and in attachment to woman, loses his access to his previous spiritual heights

Thank you Spirit for rescucitating this thread. What you said is essentially what I was after, but with more of an equal parts with man/woman not so much man higher then woman.

If this metaphor is truly valid what would you suggest be done to once again aquire the previous spiritual heights?

quote:Originally posted by I_Like_Traffic_Lights:

Thank you Spirit for rescucitating this thread. What you said is essentially what I was after, but with more of an equal parts with man/woman not so much man higher then woman.

If this metaphor is truly valid what would you suggest be done to once again aquire the previous spiritual heights?

Kill all the broads.

Kill the serpent...

Do not orient your worldview or justify your existence by material standards- shake off the false doctrines of human happiness and the illusions of the righteousness of the crowd, and everything democratic and secular. Destroy in yourself the idea that regular life is not an expression of something higher. Destroy any kind of thinking that puts man on par with beasts. Discover who you were before school and your family told you who to be. Discover what sepereates you, and puts distance between you and all other life. See everything as having its own form and purpose, free from any economic or naturalist conditioning.

WOW!!! before I say something to really mess up and say something dumb (and no, what I believe and have been stating in other threads is not dumb lol) let's break this down.



God created man. man was lonely even though he had God(only came down in the cool of the eve) so God made him a partner from his rib(did you guys know that the lower rib is the only bone in the bottum that grows back?). Ok, so we know that God mad eve as a helpmate... I think we can assume that sex was ok. as a side note, you're applying modern day connotations with a 5000 year old original text.... I think that the connotation only is relevant today. let's go on

God had man and woman and made everything perfect. If we had not free will, everything would have continued this way. However, free will can not be tested unless it is... well tested. If you have no options on what to do, you will do the only course possible. In other words, God gave them the tree and told them not to partake of the fruit. ONLY thing the could not 'do'.

Satan has since fallen(I can expound if the need arises) and hates man as we are made in God's image. So, he sets about to screw things up... and does so. Now, Eve partakes of the tree of knowledge/tree of good and evil. I think that that means, before they partook of the tree, they did not know evil(or good for that matter... good connotates you know bad. they only knew what to do). Once they both partook, they both knew what evil was(knowledge was imparted).

Now, for why I think that it can not be well..... uhmmm... you know what I'm trying to say lol. It can't be the 'snake' because there are references made to satan as being lucifer - 'the angel of light' in many many passages of the old and new testament. Also, God said that the heal of woman's seed shall bruise the head of snake/lucifer. Now, if your woman is bruisin your member... you're not doing something right. You need to go read the Erotica section to get some ideas.... err or maybe that's the problem lol.

So that is how I see it. If the word of God is infallible(original manuscripts must be used) and the old matches the new(both inspired by God) testaments I think you must believe in the validity of the word.

quote:Originally posted by Spirit of '22:

Kill the serpent...

Do not orient your worldview or justify your existence by material standards- shake off the false doctrines of human happiness and the illusions of the righteousness of the crowd, and everything democratic and secular. Destroy in yourself the idea that regular life is not an expression of something higher. Destroy any kind of thinking that puts man on par with beasts. Discover who you were before school and your family told you who to be. Discover what sepereates you, and puts distance between you and all other life. See everything as having its own form and purpose, free from any economic or naturalist conditioning.

That's some Mafia shit GJ!!

quote:Originally posted by choytw:

WOW!!! before I say something to really mess up and say something dumb (and no, what I believe and have been stating in other threads is not dumb lol) let's break this down........................

In english PLZ!

God's word infallible, yea, sure I'll buy that; but God didn't write the supposedly sacred texts compiled into the bible, any more than God is writing this reply.

What do you think 'inspired by the Holy Spirit' means?

quote:Originally posted by I_Like_Traffic_Lights:

Q:Knowledge? What's that?

A http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)on't worry about it, just stay away from it.

I think the "forbidden fruit" (or sex) brought them the "knowledge" of judgement and shame.



It was the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Bad. After they ate of this, then when they considered a question, or a result, an event, or an action, attitude, anything, they now pronounced it or thought of it, or at least had the tendency, to decide if it was good or bad. Or, if they asked a question, they decided if their answer was good=right, or bad=wrong.

Before they ate of the tree, they didn't do this, as hard as may be for the world to understand today. Every since they did this, the world started thinking this way, their children. Jesus came to help rescue people from this "fleshly" thinking, but that can be considered as another topic as to how he did that.

When they were naked before they ate, they hadn't decided that nakedness was good or bad. I guess they decided it was bad, but they continued to have sex, so they must have been seeing it as good some of the time too. But whatever, they continued making judgements about it.

What was the Tree of Life?

Bastardoh, what the hell are you talking about? (Mafia shit...and how did you know my initials?)