One big thing I don't understand about "God's plan" is how it can exist along with free will. Do the two not conflict? How can we say that God chose for a baby to be created, but man chose to abort it? Did man not chose to fuck without protection? Who are we as humans to say what is part of God's plan and what isn't (this is partially what Kikey was saying in the abortion thread)? I don't understand how free will and God's plan can work together. Someone please explain this to me.

Its twwwwwwwiiiiiiissssssteeeeeed logic.

Your going to get a LOT of bullshit about this.

I think the best excepted answer is that your free will is to either except or reject gods plan.

Messed up as that is.

still, check out the faq at godhatesfags.com if you really want some twisted religion.

HAHAHA I call him Kikey too!

uhhh, well heres the thing. We have free will. God has a final plan. What happens inbetween is up to us. But when Jesus returns, God is physically present and will be doing alot of things.

I guess that's the usual response.

Here's what I think. We either have free will, or God is doing shit. You can't have it both ways. You can't say, "God allowed 9/11 to happen to unite us and show us our sinfullness" (which is something that someone was trying to tell me on a christian board the other night). Anyway, you can't say this, becuase God allows everything, he doesn't allow specific things for specific reasons, he allows everything only becuase he gave us free will.

whew, well, it's a conundrum. I'm personally not a christian, so I don't worry about it much. But you sure as hell can confuse the hell outta christians with quadries like this. Just wait for Digital Saviors response. She'll have the best info from the christian perspective.

If you read the Bible you can see that God did have a plan but people screwed it up. He planed on people remaining sheep forever but Eve fucked that over nicely. He planed on people being good. But they were'nt so he flooded the world and killed off most of them. The exstent of his plans never did exstend to individuals though. Read JOB, if God had evryones life planed out then it was a pointless exersise. I have said it before but either God likes to jerk people around or he realyy does not have much control.

My short answer, because it's 6:46 a.m. and I have not had my java yet:

There is no god who has designed a master scheme of things.

Free will is an illusion, sort of. We're virtual slaves to the memes that were seeded, planted, and are growing in our consciousness every day.

I don't believe one can really practice "free will" without first attempting to start with a blank slate and forget everything you've ever learned culturally. I don't mean like language, the alphabet, and calculus - I mean your morals, values, prejudices and preferences. We're more influenced than we think we are. Of that, I am certain.

I like the way Susan Blackmore explains it:

http://www.memes.org.uk/meme-lab/DART96.HTM

quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

My short answer, because it's 6:46 a.m. and I have not had my java yet:

There is no god who has designed a master scheme of things.

Free will is an illusion, sort of. We're virtual slaves to the memes that were seeded, planted, and are growing in our consciousness every day.

I don't believe one can really practice "free will" without first attempting to start with a blank slate and forget everything you've ever learned culturally. I don't mean like language, the alphabet, and calculus - I mean your morals, values, prejudices and preferences. We're more influenced than we think we are. Of that, I am certain.

I like the way Susan Blackmore explains it:

http://www.memes.org.uk/meme-lab/DART96.HTM



Yeah, that's the "tabla rasum" issue.

i would have to agree with aTRIBECALLEDSEAN about 95%, but there is more to add to that. of course i would love to share all of my insight about it, but unfortunatly, i am very tired. i will add a little bit. the reason that God gave us free-will is because he loves us so much that he wants us to be able to choose, because without choices, all that would be happening is that he would be controlling us, and there would be no point to creating us. we would just be like characters in a video game to God. he put us here to worship him, and so that he could share his beautiful creations. he also wants to share his kingdom with us, -his kingdom being heaven-... and if we don't have free-will, how would we ever be able to enjoy what he created. once again, his creations and us would be totally, completely, 103% pointless.

I am sorry if I have offended anyone by this. Merry Part

quote:Originally posted by Manith Rhun:



I am sorry if I have offended anyone by this. Merry Part

I for one, am infuriated!

BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

quote:Originally posted by aTribeCalledSean:



Yeah, that's the "tabla rasum" issue.

Explain? Google fails me.

quote:Originally posted by GlitterPunk112358:

One big thing I don't understand about "God's plan" is how it can exist along with free will. Do the two not conflict? How can we say that God chose for a baby to be created, but man chose to abort it? Did man not chose to fuck without protection? Who are we as humans to say what is part of God's plan and what isn't (this is partially what Kikey was saying in the abortion thread)? I don't understand how free will and God's plan can work together. Someone please explain this to me.

Maybe you read my angry rant about this very issue? I was considering making a topic about it but that it would have just been flame bait.

I agree. It seems that the Christian Hypocrisy is that uncontrollable negatives and positives are "god's plan", but man-made ones are "sinful"/"blessed" actions.

Very contradictory, indeed.

Like you said with abortion: getting knocked up is part of God's plan, and thus aborting would be a sin? Wouldn't aborting also be part of God's plan?

For once, a mature post on your part, Glitter.

quote:Originally posted by AngryFemme:

Explain? Google fails me.



try "tabula rossa"

quote:Originally posted by aTribeCalledSean:

I for one, am infuriated!

BLASPHEMY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lol, at least you have the right sense of humor.