Only non-fundamentalists get them. Until this changes, I am officially anti-abotion. This vile practice must be stopped.

What happened to the original thread? I though mods were only suposed to close threads not delete them.

They can delete whatever they want. They just can't delete users.

quote:Originally posted by MasterPython:

What happened to the original thread? I though mods were only suposed to close threads not delete them.

I was wondering that, as well. Did the original poster delete it? I thought we had a good exchange of ideas going in that one...

Lost Cause shuold make me her male Mod.

I CALL FOR EQUAL RIGHTS!!!

No male representation in this forum?!?!?!

45-something mods, all white?!?!?!

booolsheet I say!

I call for equality!

I will let this thread go as long as moderator(s) do.

quote:Originally posted by WolfinSheepsClothing:

They can delete whatever they want. They just can't delete users.



read FAQ they cant delete threds

quote:Originally posted by Punk_Rocker_22:

read FAQ they cant delete threds



"Moderators:

Moderators control individual forums. They can edit, delete, or prune any posts in their forums. If you have a question about a particular forum, you should direct it to your forum moderator"

then they contradict themselves.

Q: Are there any rules about what I can and can't post on the BBS?

A: The rules of the Temple are few and easy to follow. Entities which break these rules are subject to a severe scolding, or restrictions on access, or beheading, depending on the whim of the Administrators.

Thou shalt not cause grief to thy Administrator.

One Account Per Person. (If you want to create a new identity, create a new account and stop using your old account.)

Do not post messages with credit card numbers, calling card numbers, passwords to private computer systems, other user's real names and personal info, or unsolicited phone numbers.

If you post a link to a harmful script (password stealer, system crasher, other assorted nasties) you must identify it as a link that can cause harm. Trying to trick people into clicking on a harmful link can get you booted.

Do not threaten other users with physical harm or engage in other felonious behavior. Try to be NICE to each other, if possible.

Before bugging the sysadmin with questions, look around and see if you can find your own answers. Seek the Truth!

If you find a bug, send me some Feedback so that I can fix it.

Messages will not be deleted because of content, although they may be moved to a more appropriate area.

Users will not be deleted because of content. About the only thing that could get you banned from the system is if you break any of the above rules or if you try to destroy totse.com. All attempts so far have been feeble-minded.

We don't know if it was the thread creator or a mod that closed the thread. Let's not get revelutionary or anything. That just gets people banned.

EDIT: Who's thread was the first one anyways? I can't remeber.

[This message has been edited by MasterPython (edited 08-16-2004).]

EDIT: Who's thread was the first one anyways? I can't remember.



dearestnight_falcon, I believe.

Most likely it was the original poster who deleted it, or a bug. I don't think Lost_Cause would have deleted it, unless it held private information or by mistake...

Yes Wolf, i do belive that dearestnight_falcon was the creator of the subject. I also agree with Social Junker that we had a good exchange of ideals going on also, and people against it had more reason than the bible to go along with there opposition of the act.

Um, fundamentalists are a BAD thing. I don't know who you've been talking to, but maybe your parents are a bad place to start.

That's what's wrong with the whole respect your elders thing. It's supposed to mean that you should respect the opinions of those who have attained higher wisdom than you. Not higher age or social status.

quote:Originally posted by Watch This!:

Yes Wolf, i do belive that dearestnight_falcon was the creator of the subject. I also agree with Social Junker that we had a good exchange of ideals going on also, and people against it had more reason than the bible to go along with there opposition of the act.

Go on digital savior.

quote:Originally posted by Freer Mage:

Um, fundamentalists are a BAD thing. I don't know who you've been talking to, but maybe your parents are a bad place to start.

That's what's wrong with the whole respect your elders thing. It's supposed to mean that you should respect the opinions of those who have attained higher wisdom than you. Not higher age or social status.



You need to work on your reading comprehension if you think this post is pro fundamentalist.

quote:Originally posted by Freer Mage:

Um, fundamentalists are a BAD thing. I don't know who you've been talking to, but maybe your parents are a bad place to start.

That's what's wrong with the whole respect your elders thing. It's supposed to mean that you should respect the opinions of those who have attained higher wisdom than you. Not higher age or social status.



Respecting elders in Asian culture is exactly that. And age too, It's just a respect factor. Respect shows honor. And honor is everything.

Yeah, I created the thread, but I didn't close it.

Could it have been moved to B&M or something?

quote:Originally posted by WolfinSheepsClothing:

Only non-fundamentalists get them. Until this changes, I am officially anti-abotion. This vile practice must be stopped.

Okay, fine. If you are female, don't have one.

If you are male, STFU.

It's sad that people do not wish to live with the consequences of their actions now-a-days. If someone is contemplating sex, they know they possible results(unless you're a COMPLETE dumbass). If you know results before you enter a situation, yet do so anyway, then an individual excepts whatever might come. If the result is a baby, this was realized ahead of time.

This all comes down to gals AND guys wanting to have fun and then get rid of any long term effects.

It's sickening.

quote:Yes Wolf, i do belive that dearestnight_falcon was the creator of the subject. I also agree with Social Junker that we had a good exchange of ideals going on also, and people against it had more reason than the bible to go along with there opposition of the act.

"People" ? I felt like I was the ONLY person on that thread that was against abortion. *whew* Would have been nice to have some help.

Anyway, are you saying that those of us that didn't agree with abortion had more reasons than just the Bible for having that opinion ? Just trying to clarify your point.

Wolf, go on ?

Is that mocking, or genuine ?

I think I said everything that needed to be.



It started becoming more about who was smarter, and who could call the other more names.

Silly. I shouldn't have engaged that deeply anyway. I just take the murder of innocent children personally. *shrugs*

What people don't seem to realize is that if people can't do something legaly they will do it illegaly. If you ban abortion there will be people who run illegal abortion clinics the same way there are people running illegal tattoo parlors and crack houses. Banning it will not make it go away it will just be put it out of sight.

quote:"People" ? I felt like I was the ONLY person on that thread that was against abortion. *whew* Would have been nice to have some help.

Anyway, are you saying that those of us that didn't agree with abortion had more reasons than just the Bible for having that opinion ? Just trying to clarify your point.



I was pro-life also, and I had the last post before it was closed/moved. And yes, that was my point.

quote:Originally posted by Watch This!:

I was pro-life also, and I had the last post before it was closed/moved. And yes, that was my point.

Why the hell were you turning it into a flame war though?

I'm fine with heated debate, but once someone starts calling names, I will start shouting back.

Did I call you a name, dearestnight_falcon ?

I don't recall that...I did, however, point out that WolfinSheepsClothing's posts did nothing but make him look like an idiot.

He seems intelligent everywhere else on Totse. *laughs* What happened in the abortion thread ? *shrugs*

Anyway, that was the closest I believe I came to insulting anyone personally.

Tribe, sit DOWN before you hurt yourself ! http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Lost Cause shuold make me her male Mod.

I CALL FOR EQUAL RIGHTS!!!

No male representation in this forum?!?!?!

45-something mods, all white?!?!?!

booolsheet I say!

I call for equality!



No MALE respresntation ? I want whatever you're on !

How would you like being one of 3 females on this forum, not to mention one of 2 Christians ?

How's THAT for a sleighted hand ?

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Did I call you a name, dearestnight_falcon ?

I don't recall that...I did, however, point out that WolfinSheepsClothing's posts did nothing but make him look like an idiot.

He seems intelligent everywhere else on Totse. *laughs* What happened in the abortion thread ? *shrugs*

Anyway, that was the closest I believe I came to insulting anyone personally.

Uhhhhh..... I thought I quoted Watch this!... but thanks for your concern http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif).

Unless of course you have a second user, but I can't imagine you doing that. (not sarcasm)

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Tribe, sit DOWN before you hurt yourself ! http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)



No MALE respresntation ? I want whatever you're on !

How would you like being one of 3 females on this forum, not to mention one of 2 Christians ?

How's THAT for a sleighted hand ?

Theres more then two Christians, unless your not counting Catholics. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

Are there no prochoice individuals who will comment on why I posted earlier? I thought for sure I would get some replies.

to the individual who was condoning abortion because of what will happen if it is banned..... wow! so now we judge what's right and wrong on how people will react. We can't make laws holding people responsible for their actions because.... they may not like it and do it anyway in unsafe conditions. WHAT IS WRONG IS WRONG no matter how much an individual/s moan and complain.

basically it comes down to this. either we will be a society who will hold the citizens belonging to that society accountable for their own actions.... or we do whatever the hell we feel like doing.

Once again the only word that comes to mind is pathetic.

[This message has been edited by choytw (edited 08-18-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by choytw:

It's sad that people do not wish to live with the consequences of their actions now-a-days. If someone is contemplating sex, they know they possible results(unless you're a COMPLETE dumbass). If you know results before you enter a situation, yet do so anyway, then an individual excepts whatever might come. If the result is a baby, this was realized ahead of time.

This all comes down to gals AND guys wanting to have fun and then get rid of any long term effects.

It's sickening.

I don't feel like arguing today, so I might just tell you the sort of responses your likely to get.

1. Argument that a fetus isn't a person.

2. What about rape?

3. abortion wouldn't be necesarry if there was better sex-ed.

4. - A woman can do whatever the fuck she wants to do with her body and whats in it.

1. Fetus is not a person.

Ok, if this is true, we still know what it turns into. we've still made the decision to start this process so the responsibility of action is still on our heads.

However, this is not true. Did you see the picture of the 6 month old 'fetus' that was holding the hand of the doctor? or a 'fetus' which had to be removed early (6-7 month old) because of complications and lived? If it can live if removed from the 'PROTECTIVE' place of the mother... isn't it alive? Just because it relies on the host for food does not mean it's non-living. A newborn baby is the exact same way - will die without help from outside source.

2. What about rape?

First this has nothing to do with non-rape; second, there have been many women raped who later in life regret it the most out of everything that they have done. Third, there have been many women who loved their babies when they got over the initial(and probably life lasting) hurt associated with the rape. NOTICE THESE ARE NOT MY BELIEFS(I'M A GUY) BUT OBSERVATIONS OF WOMEN WHO HAVE BEEN THROUGH THIS!

3. abortion would not be necessary with better sex-ed.

You IDIOT! accidents ALWAYS happens no matter the precaution! The ONLY sure way to can the need for abortion is ABSTINENCE! This has to be the worst argument I've ever seen for abortion.

4. - A woman can do whatever the fuck she wants to do with her body and whats in it.

Well, you're kind've right. Her rights end where it interferes with anothers'. argument #1 shows that a 'fetus' is definately a human before birth(i would argue at conception but that's me). so, when a woman makes the decision, OF HER OWN FREE WILL, to have sex SHE KNOWS THE CONSEQUENCES and accepts them(since it was of her own free will) and whatever results.

I just can't help it. Talking about this subject makes me sick, literally. Take some advice from someone who should've been aborted.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

[B]

...I did, however, point out that WolfinSheepsClothing's posts did nothing but make him look like an idiot.

He seems intelligent everywhere else on Totse. *laughs* What happened in the abortion thread ? *shrugs*

You can't stop talking about me can you? I guess it is understandable, what with my superior intellect and all. In the other thread, I pointed out that all you did was copy and paste propaganda from fundamentslist websites, and that all your arguments were fallacious. What do I get for my kind gesture?



" You're ignorant,dumb,yada yada".

I haven't attacked you personally, I don't need to.

quote:Originally posted by choytw:

1. Fetus is not a person.

Ok, if this is true, we still know what it turns into. we've still made the decision to start this process so the responsibility of action is still on our heads.

However, this is not true. Did you see the picture of the 6 month old 'fetus' that was holding the hand of the doctor? or a 'fetus' which had to be removed early (6-7 month old) because of complications and lived? If it can live if removed from the 'PROTECTIVE' place of the mother... isn't it alive? Just because it relies on the host for food does not mean it's non-living. A newborn baby is the exact same way - will die without help from outside source.

2. What about rape?

First this has nothing to do with non-rape; second, there have been many women raped who later in life regret it the most out of everything that they have done. Third, there have been many women who loved their babies when they got over the initial(and probably life lasting) hurt associated with the rape. NOTICE THESE ARE NOT MY BELIEFS(I'M A GUY) BUT OBSERVATIONS OF WOMEN WHO HAVE BEEN THROUGH THIS!

3. abortion would not be necessary with better sex-ed.

You IDIOT! accidents ALWAYS happens no matter the precaution! The ONLY sure way to can the need for abortion is ABSTINENCE! This has to be the worst argument I've ever seen for abortion.

4. - A woman can do whatever the fuck she wants to do with her body and whats in it.

Well, you're kind've right. Her rights end where it interferes with anothers'. argument #1 shows that a 'fetus' is definately a human before birth(i would argue at conception but that's me). so, when a woman makes the decision, OF HER OWN FREE WILL, to have sex SHE KNOWS THE CONSEQUENCES and accepts them(since it was of her own free will) and whatever results.

I just can't help it. Talking about this subject makes me sick, literally. Take some advice from someone who should've been aborted.

Gees, no need to go off at me, I just told you some of the arguments your likely to get from people.

quote:I don't feel like arguing today, so I might just tell you the sort of responses your likely to get.

1. Argument that a fetus isn't a person.

2. What about rape?

3. abortion wouldn't be necesarry if there was better sex-ed.

4. - A woman can do whatever the fuck she wants to do with her body and whats in it.

1. The "neural plane" is formed by approximately the 16th day after gestation. This is the beginning of the nervous system (to include the brain). For those of you that believe the brain isn't formed until the eighth week:

- http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/dev.html

I am assuming that this thought process is supposed to justify murdering the child, because somehow, only the brain identifies us as living human beings. Though the brain has not entirely formed at 16 days, there are the beginnings of a brain, and I see little difference between the "beginning of a brain/nervous system" and a complete "brain/nervous system", other than stages. A partially formed brain does not make the baby less human.

Also, to those that justify abortion up until the time that the brain is fully formed:

"It is now well established that the human fetus is capable of some degree of behavioral complexity. In fact, as early as the 9th week of gestation the fetus is able to spontaneously move the extremities, head, and trunk (de Vries, Visser, & Prechtl, 1985)." http://www.brain-mind.com/FetalBrainDevelopment.html

"In the United States, about 55% of all abortions are performed in the first 8 weeks (first trimester), 88% are performed before 13 weeks, and 95% are performed before 16 weeks." http://www.pamf.org/health/healthinfo/index.cfm?page=article&sgml_id=tw1040

Basically, a depressing amount abortions are performed AFTER 8 weeks. So, if you are telling yourself that abortions are ok, just as long as there is no brain, then you should seriously reconsider what you deem an acceptable timeline.

This is why abortion should be illegal to the general public. You need a doctor's consent and referral to have ANY other form of surgery or procedure done (legally), so why not abortion ? Yes, the docs at the clinics have degrees, but they will perform an abortion on anyone that wants one.

And look at the fantastic reasoning behind most abortions:

- Wants to postpone childbearing: 25.5%

- Wants no (more) children: 7.9%

- Cannot afford a baby: 21.3%

- Having a child will disrupt education or job: 10.8%

- Has relationship problem or partner does not want pregnancy: 14.1%

- Too young; parent(s) or other(s) object to pregnancy: 12.2%

- Risk to maternal health: 2.8%

- Risk to fetal health: 3.3%

- Other: 2.1%

Other than the 6.1% that are for health reasons (let's just exclude the "other" category, since we don't know what it entails), the majority are shown to be done because of selfishness, or irresponsibility.

"The overwhelming majority of all abortions, (95%), are done as a means of birth control." http://www.abortiontv.com/AbortionStatistics.htm

Is this a good enough reason ? Birth control ?

2. What about rape ? Let a doctor, that doesn't perform abortions, refer the victim to a doctor that will do the procedure. At least this situation would then conform to our current ethical standards for practicing medicine. (only 1% of abortions are performed as a "fix" for rape pregnancies. This would dramatically reduce the amount of abortions sought out by those that are simply irresponsible.)

3. I don't believe educating children about sex will make them less likely to have sex irresponsibly. Children/teenagers are immature, and that is a fact. The "heat of the moment" most often supercedes the responsible decision to use a contraceptive.

4. A woman can do whatever she wants with her body, which is why women find themselves pregnant with unwanted children ALL THE TIME. (aside from rape victims) It was HER choice to have sex, knowing full well the consequences. Even with contraception, and birth control, a woman can still get pregnant. Nothing is fail-proof except abstinence, so if knowing the end result of your actions isn't enough to prevent you from making "mistakes" (i.e. unwanted children), then nothing ever will be.

Another reason abortions should not be legal:

- http://abortiontv.com/BabyPartsForSale.htm

Anyway, I am done for the night.

God bless.

quote:You can't stop talking about me can you? I guess it is understandable, what with my superior intellect and all. In the other thread, I pointed out that all you did was copy and paste propaganda from fundamentslist websites, and that all your arguments were fallacious. What do I get for my kind gesture?

Just for your viewing pleasure, I posted facts from sites that AREN'T associated with fundamentalist propaganda, just so you can feel nice and comfy. (how's that for a kind gesture ?)

And pasting information was NOT all that I was doing. If you had been paying attention, you would have noticed that the majority of what was posted were my own opinons and thoughts. I backed them up with actual data, because so many people on Totse spout off their opinions and give no references. You happen fall into that category.

So, either you didn't read my posts, which you attested to, or you are deliberately lying in an attempt to discredit me. But I should point something out to you...everyone else CAN (and does) read the posts in their entirety. It doesn't really matter what you accuse me of, because the truth is there.

You gave haughty opinions with no substance, let alone data to support them. Your contributions to the thread were worthless. That was all I was trying to say.

I am glad that you have learned a new word here on Totse (fallacious)...it's been running around quite a bit lately. *applauds you*

Nothing about you is "kind".

I hope that changes some day.

"Just for your viewing pleasure, I posted facts from sites that AREN'T associated with fundamentalist propaganda, just so you can feel nice and comfy. (How’s that for a kind gesture?)"

__________________________________________________ __

* How savior like of you. You are getting closer to a Christ-like person all the time aren’t you?

__________________________________________________ _-

"And pasting information was NOT all that I was doing. If you had been paying attention, you would have noticed that the majority of what was posted was my own opinions and thoughts. I backed them up with actual data, because so many people on Totse spout off their opinions and give no references. You happen fall into that category."

__________________________________________________ ___

* You don’t need references for opinions. I don’t really question your facts, so much as your interpretation of the facts. That is called debate.



__________________________________________________ ___

"So, either you didn't read my posts, which you attested to, or you are deliberately lying in an attempt to discredit me. But I should point something out to you...everyone else CAN (and does) read the posts in their entirety. It doesn't really matter what you accuse me of, because the truth is there."

__________________________________________________

*I don’t lie; I don’t have to fit the entire world into my religious paradigm. The truth is there? Where? The thread is gone.

_______________________________________________



"You gave haughty opinions with no substance, let alone data to support them. Your contributions to the thread were worthless. That was all I was trying to say".

__________________________________________________ ____

* This made me chuckle. I have never been accused of giving haughty opinions before. I guess I’ll take that as a compliment. Thank you. Stop saying my contributions to a thread that is no longer here for everyone to see, were worthless. Frankly I don’t even remember everything I said in it. I do, however remember you trying to attack me from the start, and me responding.

__________________________________________________



"I am glad that you have learned a new word here on Totse (fallacious)...it's been running around quite a bit lately. *applauds you* "

__________________________________________________ ____

*Maybe you didn’t read my posts in their entirety? I have been using that word before there was a Totse. I certainly don’t come here to learn vocabulary. (Except maybe slang)

__________________________________________________ ___

"Nothing about you is "kind"."

__________________________________________________ ___

* That is simply untrue, once I helped a little old lady cross the street.

Let’s stop this little pissing match over who said what in other (deleted) threads. I can let it go.



[This message has been edited by WolfinSheepsClothing (edited 08-20-2004).]

quote: Why the hell were you turning it into a flame war though?

I'm fine with heated debate, but once someone starts calling names, I will start shouting back.

I do belive you where the one who couldn't stick with the issues and attacked me personally. If you wouldn't have made fun of my religion, or quit attacking my views ("right wing cult"), or me personally

("women arent walking wombs, pig!"), than i wouldnt have to of flamed you.

quote:Originally posted by Watch This!:

I do belive you where the one who couldn't stick with the issues and attacked me personally. If you wouldn't have made fun of my religion, or quit attacking my views ("right wing cult"), or me personally

("women arent walking wombs, pig!"), than i wouldnt have to of flamed you.

Thats odd, I remember you you calling me an idiot, as the first thing you said.

"Abortion KIlls Children"

Aussie Anti-Abortion Placard

quote:Originally posted by menalty:



"Abortion KIlls Children"

Aussie Anti-Abortion Placard

"Aids Cures Fags"

American Anti-Gay Banner



I really am close to outright hatred of that man. http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

^me?

i don't know what i think about abortion anymore. i was once a huge supporter of the woman deciding, but then i read up more on the subject and became a passionate opposer of it. lately though, i can't be bothered to walk away from my gravity b and give a shit

quote: Thats odd, I remember you you calling me an idiot, as the first thing you said.



There you go again. I bombard you with actual quotes and you turn the other way and flat out deny what i said.

To all the people who want to make abortions illegal:

PROHIBITION DOES NOT WORK! History teaches us this!



Just thought I'd share that.

quote:Originally posted by Watch This!:

There you go again. I bombard you with actual quotes and you turn the other way and flat out deny what i said.

Fuck you. You know as well as I do that you started it. The thread was something like 4 pages long, and you started attacking me over the original post.

Screw you, it isn't worth my time talking to a lying idiot like you anymore.

quote:Originally posted by Social Junker:

To all the people who want to make abortions illegal:

PROHIBITION DOES NOT WORK! History teaches us this!



Just thought I'd share that.

Prohibition of something widely practiced usually doesn't work, but an abortion isn't as widely practiced as say drugs, alcohol, or tobacco products, so the effect of a prohibition won't be so widely felt as a prohibition against alcohol.

I would also like to see a few historical examples suggesting prohibition doesn't work, aside from Alcohol, drugs, and tobacco.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

Prohibition of something widely practiced usually doesn't work, but an abortion isn't as widely practiced as say drugs, alcohol, or tobacco products, so the effect of a prohibition won't be so widely felt as a prohibition against alcohol.

I would also like to see a few historical examples suggesting prohibition doesn't work, aside from Alcohol, drugs, and tobacco.

Well, like you said, prohibition against drugs and alcohol doesn't work, but what do drugs, alcohol, and sex have in common? Pleasure. As long as sex occurs, there's going to be abortions, whether they're legal or illegal, so why not keep them legal so women can get them safely as possible if it's their choice? I'm all for personal freedoms, and I feel that making abortion illegal would be a serious blow to our personal freedoms.

quote:Originally posted by menalty:

^me?

Nah, course not.

Fred Phelps.

(www.godhatesfags.com and www.godhatesamerica.com) (http://www.godhatesamerica.com))

quote:Originally posted by dearestnight_falcon:

Nah, course not.

Fred Phelps.

(www.godhatesfags.com and www.godhatesamerica.com) (http://www.godhatesamerica.com))

Pheww,don't even now the guy but he sounds like an asshole

Can anyone tell me why humans feel so much of a need to control others?

I can understand why anyone might not want to have an abortion, but why is it so important to try to make sure your neighbor doesn't - even if it doesn't concern you?

quote:Originally posted by woodlander:

Can anyone tell me why humans feel so much of a need to control others?

I can understand why anyone might not want to have an abortion, but why is it so important to try to make sure your neighbor doesn't - even if it doesn't concern you?

That was my original argument in the first thread, but these people are arguing that it is murder.

I really think this is a case of "if in doubt, let god sort out who's guilty of what", but thats just me.

quote:Originally posted by woodlander:

Can anyone tell me why humans feel so much of a need to control others?

I can understand why anyone might not want to have an abortion, but why is it so important to try to make sure your neighbor doesn't - even if it doesn't concern you?

I don't feel the need to control others.

I would try and stop someone from murdering a little old lady, just as much as I try to stop the violence and murder of unborn children.

There not human yet...

quote:Originally posted by NightVision:

There not human yet...

let's say you have large shipment of gold and money coming to you. you know it's on the way but you're not rich yet, but will be when it is delivered.

how would you feel about me robbing your shipment? i mean, you're not rich yet, so it doesn't really matter right?

[This message has been edited by shedding mountain (edited 08-25-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by NightVision:

There not human yet...

That has been refuted. Apparently you missed the abortion threads.

you suck you motherfucker, its a womans right to choose

So it's a women's right to choose to kill someone? How is that right. Also, for those of you who say prohibtion won't work because some abortions will still happen, murder and stealing are illegal even though they still happen. Should they be legal since they sometimes occur?

Many religions/belief systems teach that the spirit does not enter the body until it takes it's first breath. Thereby suggesting that abortion isn't murder. It's more like removing a tumor.

I'm not going to say whether or not I agree with the practice of abortion and whether or not I agree is irrelevant. But, the fact is is that it is not proveable whether or not an unborn child is actually alive, considering you could say that it's only a part of the mother and thereby a meer extention of the mother.

Etc... Etc... Etc...

Cheers,

Lost

I wonder, if the soul is eternal as most religious-types claim it to be, why does it matter if the fetus is killed? I mean, if it's unborn, it couldn't have possibly committed a sin, and by default it would go to Heaven, right?

quote:Originally posted by Charles Thunder:

I wonder, if the soul is eternal as most religious-types claim it to be, why does it matter if the fetus is killed? I mean, if it's unborn, it couldn't have possibly committed a sin, and by default it would go to Heaven, right?

A religious person would probably say its because only God should be able to choose who dies and when, not a doctor or a mother. I am Catholic, but mainly I think I think its wrong not just because my Church says it is wrong, but because most scientific evidence says that a fetus is alive and you shouldnt be able to murder something alive. Whether your Catholic or not.

quote:Originally posted by whatwouldsatando:

you suck you motherfucker, its a womans right to choose

Are you a woman ? Do you know what sort of ravaging takes place during an abortion ? Have you ever watched one, or seen pictures of it being done ?

Uneducated...just like the rest of them.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

[This message has been edited by Digital_Savior (edited 08-27-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

Many religions/belief systems teach that the spirit does not enter the body until it takes it's first breath. Thereby suggesting that abortion isn't murder. It's more like removing a tumor.

I'm not going to say whether or not I agree with the practice of abortion and whether or not I agree is irrelevant. But, the fact is is that it is not proveable whether or not an unborn child is actually alive, considering you could say that it's only a part of the mother and thereby a meer extention of the mother.

Etc... Etc... Etc...

Cheers,

Lost

It IS provable...ever watched one ? What about partial-birth abortions ? THOSE ARE DEFINITELY HUMAN CHILDREN !

quote:Originally posted by Charles Thunder:

I wonder, if the soul is eternal as most religious-types claim it to be, why does it matter if the fetus is killed? I mean, if it's unborn, it couldn't have possibly committed a sin, and by default it would go to Heaven, right?

Every person that is not given an opportunity to choose for themselves will automatically go to Heaven. (this is my understanding of it)

But there is still that pesky little commandment: THOU SHALT NOT KILL

And what of ethics ? "Yay ! The baby went to heaven, so it's quite alright that we ripped it apart, limb by limb !" http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

ACK !

[This message has been edited by Digital_Savior (edited 08-27-2004).]

Its a good profession, All you need is a wire coathanger and you get lots of pussy.

The problem is that banning abortion just because it is againt Christian beliefs is wrong.

The State is separated from the Church and if Christians don't want to make abortions - none forces them. It is so simple, but no, you seem to make everyone follow the Bible just because you believe it is right.

So wrong.

quote:Originally posted by Sniper:

The problem is that banning abortion just because it is againt Christian beliefs is wrong.

The State is separated from the Church and if Christians don't want to make abortions - none forces them. It is so simple, but no, you seem to make everyone follow the Bible just because you believe it is right.

So wrong.

I don't think it should be illegal because it is against the Christian religion. Murder is also against the Christian religion, yet you don't hear many people saying murder should be legal because Christians say it's wrong. Abortion should be illegal because it is the murder of a baby fetus, which whether alive or not (most evidence says it is alive), will certainly be alive in the near future, and this fetus deserves the right to live, and this right shouldn't be taken away because the mother does not want the child. You can't own somebody's life and decide what their fate will be, no matter who you are, mother or not. An abortion is not like removing a tumor or a parasite from the body as some people will say, because a tumor removed from a body does not have the chance to live or do something great. It is not alive at the time of removal and it never would be alive after that, unlike a fetus.

So, even though I am against abortion because I am a Christian, I am more against because it violates the right to live, which is a right the government has to protect.