Why? If its written that he'll definetly lose then why bother fighting it? Unless he wont. Or maybe he doesnt exist at all

very simply - he has nothing to lose. he had enough power he thought he could best God, failed now he has nothing else to do but hope he wins and cause misery for God's creations.

His only goal is to bring more people to hell. That's all. That's his war. You see, that's why Christians want to "save" atheists.

"Without any evil, there can be no good

so it must be good, to be evil some tiiiiiiimmmmmeessssss"

A quote from the man himself via southpark.

By the by I view supernatural creatures who are actual living breathing things that could conceivably get into fisticuffs to be a somewhat ridiculous concept.

Can't they just be concepts of "good" and "bad" forces. An inexplainable urge for some people to step on others for the goal of material possesion, and for others to attempt to tear down barriers between people and open eyes to simple beauties of life?

Well, I think that the amount of people that get into the Christian heaven is going to be nothing compared to the amount that Satan will have dragged into the Christian hell. In that sense, Satan wins by a loooong shot.

[This message has been edited by R_I (edited 08-19-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by R_I:

Well, I think that the amount of people that get into the Christian heaven is going to be nothing compared to the amount that Satan will have dragged into the Christian hell. In that sense, Satan wins by a loooong shot.

[This message has been edited by R_I (edited 08-19-2004).]



Gwned.

hella gwned.

But it doesn't matter, satan is a fairy tell. A tool used by christians to explain idiology. Because free will really doesn't exist in most christians minds, think about it, every christian that say "It was just god's plan", "God led me to _____" whatever, then they are arguing against free will. Therefore they can blame things on satan.

I think that whatever ideas have come through the christian tradition about satan and free will have been hijacked in contemporary christian discourses.

In many senses I see that christianity should encourage people to take a greater responsibility for their actions- particular if we are going to be called to account for them. Blaming satan is a cop out, but that doesn't mean that the concept of the Enemy (with a big e) is necessarily a defunct fairy tale.

quote:Originally posted by inquisitor_11:

I think that whatever ideas have come through the christian tradition about satan and free will have been hijacked in contemporary christian discourses.

In many senses I see that christianity should encourage people to take a greater responsibility for their actions- particular if we are going to be called to account for them. Blaming satan is a cop out, but that doesn't mean that the concept of the Enemy (with a big e) is necessarily a defunct fairy tale.

Eggs-actly

R_I, satan still does not win. His goal is to overthrow God... he just takes as many with him while he's at it.

aTribeCalledSean said,"Because free will really doesn't exist in most christians minds, think about it, every christian that say "It was just god's plan", "God led me to _____" whatever, then they are arguing against free will. Therefore they can blame things on satan."

Oh but it does. We still have the ability to do what God wants or not to. I've said, "It was God's plan" but I mean the course of events(i.e. someone met me that day or I lost my keys so this person would meet me) but never in regards to actions. We have the final say in what we do.

As far as blaming things on satan, I think that's pretty immature to do that. We may have thoughts that enter our head put there by satan/minions (I doubt this though. I think it's our nature. things just randomly pop through) but not matter the origination, it's what we do with those thought - if we dwell on those thoughts and act on them - that really counts. If we get rid of the thoughts, then we have exercised free will to the good. Likewise, if we entertain these thoughts, we've exercised free will but chosen the negative path.

I AGREE - blaming the devil for our actions is extremely irresponsible. He's not to blame. So that area has been taken care of right? we know that christians are not supposed to blame satan?

Oh, I always thought it was a spiritual war for our souls(whatever the hell a soul is).

quote:Originally posted by Rab_Hamish_McTavish:

Why? If its written that he'll definetly lose then why bother fighting it? Unless he wont. Or maybe he doesnt exist at all

Another way of understanding this is as follows : if he *must* lose - then he *must* fight that war. See the logic ?

quote:As far as blaming things on satan, I think that's pretty immature to do that. We may have thoughts that enter our head put there by satan/minions (I doubt this though. I think it's our nature. things just randomly pop through) but not matter the origination, it's what we do with those thought - if we dwell on those thoughts and act on them - that really counts. If we get rid of the thoughts, then we have exercised free will to the good. Likewise, if we entertain these thoughts, we've exercised free will but chosen the negative path.

I AGREE - blaming the devil for our actions is extremely irresponsible. He's not to blame. So that area has been taken care of right? we know that christians are not supposed to blame satan?

I must disagree with you here, choytw. It's not often that this happens, but in this instance, I must interject.

I think the word "blame" is inappropriate. It IS Satan's doing that sin came to be known by man.

I don't BLAME anyone for my mistakes, but I do know from whence they come.

I choose to either make them, or not...but I wouldn't be born into sin if it wasn't for the spite of Lucifer, and his deception in the Garden of Eden.

It wouldn't be a constant battle for me to do the right thing, think the right things, and say the right words.

See what I mean ?

Hypothetical Question- within the christian/ hebrew understanding, would there be sin if there was no satan?

IS satan evil? Of is he a metaphore for rebellion. He opposed God and was banished and now he lives in misery and is blamed for evil. Sounds like the age old formula we saw in Animal Farm and in Russia with Trotsky and Stalin. Just a theory.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

I don't BLAME anyone for my mistakes, but I do know from whence they come.

I choose to either make them, or not...but I wouldn't be born into sin if it wasn't for the spite of Lucifer, and his deception in the Garden of Eden.

It wouldn't be a constant battle for me to do the right thing, think the right things, and say the right words.

See what I mean ?

I see what you mean, Digital_Savior.

Satan is supposed to be at the origin of the possibility for you to make mistakes. Now you must always take care not to make them. You say you are not blaming anyone else for them, yet in fact you do, because you are emphasizing the fact that it is Satan's fault.

quote:I see what you mean, Digital_Savior.

Satan is supposed to be at the origin of the possibility for you to make mistakes. Now you must always take care not to make them. You say you are not blaming anyone else for them, yet in fact you do, because you are emphasizing the fact that it is Satan's fault.

No. I don't blame him for my actions. I recognize that he is the cause for the possibility of my actions being sinful.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

No. I don't blame him for my actions. I recognize that he is the cause for the possibility of my actions being sinful.

Having the possibility of your actions being sinful... doesn't that remind you somewhere of free will ?

buy your "Satan is my Homeboy" and Mary is my Ho" at www.rottencotton.com (http://www.rottencotton.com)

buy your "Jesus is a Homo" at www.t-shirthell.com (http://www.t-shirthell.com)

spread the hatred!!!

Fool, it is not the victory that maters in the war, but the idealism. The Idea of revolting and fighting against god. That it is the point of the war. Idiot...

quote:Originally posted by aTribeCalledSean:



But it doesn't matter, satan is a fairy tell. A tool used by christians to explain idiology. Because free will really doesn't exist in most christians minds, think about it, every christian that say "It was just god's plan", "God led me to _____" whatever, then they are arguing against free will. Therefore they can blame things on satan.



Smartest thing I've read all day.

quote:Originally posted by NotAJew:



Smartest thing I've read all day.

yes, but this is a hypothetical thread(I think)

quote:Originally posted by Rab_Hamish_McTavish:

Why? If its written that he'll definetly lose then why bother fighting it? Unless he wont. Or maybe he doesnt exist at all

He, Satan (if he exists or not is irrelevent), has the same information you or I have and the fact that he had access to God doesn't really matter, since we all probably have access to God that is just as powerful as the access he had. And that doesn't sway most of us that much and we complain that if God would just reveal more of himself to us, then we would believe.

satan rebelled out of the impossible and unbearable desire to be closer to God, with the aim of trapping Him in a catch-22.

after all, where is God's omnibenevolence when it comes to erasing the immeasurable suffering of hell's minister?

and thus was the human being created.

Lucifer started the war, because when Jesus was created by God, God said Jesus would inherit the holy kingdom, and Jesus had all the same powers of God, and the whole thing pissed off Lucifer. He wanted to inherit the kingdom, as an angel. He was a very important angel, by the way, and thought he had a shot, as one of those Arch-Angels. He got a bunch of angels to-gether, gave a little speech about how unfair it is, and all that jazz, and said they could rebel, and fight all the way to God's seat. Needless to say, he didn't make it, and was driven to Hell on the third day by Jesus, for whom the glory of the win was reserved by God. Lucifer did not know he would lose, because he had thousands of angels to back him up. After the first day, he was defeated by Michael, we believe, and had to recuperate. The second day, he created machines that could launch lightening by the dozens, and therefore take out all the good guys. It didn't work as planned, because the Son came and whipped his ass on the third day, and drove him to Hell, where he would suffer for his attempted mutiny. By the way, angels can't be killed, just so that you know. That is the story, as far as the New Model can tell.



ModelFifteen

What "war" are you talking about?

Cheers,

Lost

I would still love lucifer if the christian mythology was true