I've tried. If I'm going to hell for not doing it, I will go with no regrets, because I CANNOT take the bible as a whole, and accept that everyone else is totally wrong.

Its ludicrous.

I know that there is a God of some sort, I know that there is more to life then that which can be seen and measured, but Christianity just isn't the way, not for me.

I've struggled with this for a year and a half, as soon as I got serious about it, it slipped away. I've tried.

I've probably come across as rather anti-christian in this forum, but I'm not. I'm involved with a local youth group at the Anglican Church, I pray, but I just can't accept every little bit of ridiculous dogma, especially when I see the harm that its doing in the world.

Proud of you brother.

Maybe you can modify your christianity, do away with the crap you don't like.

There isn't any point modifying it. Its either all, or something completely different.

Besides, the whole idea of man being inherantly evil just doesn't sit with me.

I really believe that the permanent betterment of the whole of mankind, and the ensuring of the future of mankind are nobel goals, rather then "spreading the faith" and waiting for the rapture.

I'm not saying that good isn't done by Christianity, but it isn't the primary concern, when I believe that it should be. It doesn't matter how you twist scriptures, you can't change the basic tennants, and I simply can't believe it.

Theres no point in me being a hypocrite.

Well, I commend you on realizing that it's all or nothing with being a christian.

As far as being inherently evil, well we are and you can witness it. All you need do is watch children when they think their parents are not looking. They will do whatever they want if they think they can get away from it. This is obviously after they know it's wrong because they only do it when the parents' back is turned.

I think that the statement, "humans are inherently evil" simply refers to this. We have a natural predisposition to do that which we should not do.

Maybe we could talk about some other problems you have with the Bible. I know that any Christian here will do their best to answer you.

quote:Originally posted by choytw:

Well, I commend you on realizing that it's all or nothing with being a christian.

As far as being inherently evil, well we are and you can witness it. All you need do is watch children when they think their parents are not looking. They will do whatever they want if they think they can get away from it. This is obviously after they know it's wrong because they only do it when the parents' back is turned.

I think that the statement, "humans are inherently evil" simply refers to this. We have a natural predisposition to do that which we should not do.

Maybe we could talk about some other problems you have with the Bible. I know that any Christian here will do their best to answer you.

Is it evil though?

I don't know of any normal Children, or at least, not when I was growning up, that would have gone and tormented homeless people the minute their parents wern't looking.

Sure, they do stuff their told not to do, but I don't really think evil is the word.

A major beef I have is the treatment of women.

I'm actually a guy

(although most assume I'm female thanks to my stupid name)

17 years old.

It isn't that equality of the sexes is something that feminists have drilled into me, its a conclusion that I have come to through experience, and it's painfully obvious from reading passages like "let the women be silent in the churches" that the there is certainly a non-equal distinciton there.

While I'm not Gay, and I personally find the very thought of male homosexuality to be rather nausiating, I don't really care what people do behind closed doors, and mandates that claim people should be put to death for such behavior seems to be overkill to say the least.

I don't really see why what is supposedly sin actually is.

Murder, theft, adultery - yeah, thats obvious.

But the death pentalty for homosexuality, and the actual hatred of homosexuals by the Christian right repulses me.

I never, not for one instant, believed the flood story or genesis creation, its always been my belief that God is quite smart enough to not need to break his own laws of physics, and there is absolutely no reason that he would place evidence to mislead us, and inerrancy can hardly be claimed when Mathew and Luke present distinctly different genologies for Jesus.



I would like to post more, but I'm tired, its 11:00 at night here, I've done a maths assignment and the equivalent of an essay on 1984 tonight, so I think I ought to get some rest, I'll post again tomorrow.

I think there are different degrees of evil. To God, sin is Evil and we naturally tend to do what's not good(flesh).

As far as the 'women be silent', well, look at the context. It's been a while since I've read this passage, but I think it was that the woman were disrupting the services, so the men were told to keep them silent. It was their culture. However, someone has to be in charge(too man chiefs not enough indians type of thing). Now this doesn't mean that whoever is in charge does whatever they wish. It's combined choice, but one person HAS to have final say or some things would never be decided.

If you look in the Bible, there are women who play key roles. You have to look at both sides.

You may not care what happens behind closed doors, but God does. I can imagine some reasons that he would have problems with it, but I don't know for sure. However, he is in charge so...

I don't understand how the flood violates physics.

As far as the different geneologies, the one in mathew is joseph's geneology and the one in Luke is the geneology of Mary. I guess it was custom in the middle east to do this. Anyway, something interesting that was pointed out is, do you think that this is the first time that this 'discrepency' has been shown? It's funny how people aregue how the Bible absolutely can not be accurate, but in instances like these they argue for the accuracy of the Bible. However there is an explanation so no problem exists.

good luck on your report

quote:Originally posted by dearestnight_falcon:

There isn't any point modifying it. Its either all, or something completely different.

Besides, the whole idea of man being inherantly evil just doesn't sit with me.

I really believe that the permanent betterment of the whole of mankind, and the ensuring of the future of mankind are nobel goals, rather then "spreading the faith" and waiting for the rapture.

I'm not saying that good isn't done by Christianity, but it isn't the primary concern, when I believe that it should be. It doesn't matter how you twist scriptures, you can't change the basic tennants, and I simply can't believe it.

Theres no point in me being a hypocrite.

Amen to that. The moment christianity loses sight of what the Kingdom of God is all about, is the moment that it becomes irrelevant.

Wherever you end up on your spiritual journey, i hope that g/God(s) grants you peace and light.

BTW if you ever feel u want to chat about christianity that doesn't involve conservative inerrentist garbage, id be more than happy to hear from you, or anyone for that one. (my screen name at hotmail.com)

conservative inerrentist garbage....

ok. no specifics huh? the whole things junk? Hard to combat that.

quote:Originally posted by dearestnight_falcon:

There isn't any point modifying it. Its either all, or something completely different.

Besides, the whole idea of man being inherantly evil just doesn't sit with me.

I really believe that the permanent betterment of the whole of mankind, and the ensuring of the future of mankind are nobel goals, rather then "spreading the faith" and waiting for the rapture.

I'm not saying that good isn't done by Christianity, but it isn't the primary concern, when I believe that it should be. It doesn't matter how you twist scriptures, you can't change the basic tennants, and I simply can't believe it.

Theres no point in me being a hypocrite.



Hey man, fuck original sin. It never says original sin or badness once in the bible. You know what God says after he makes things, "It is good", you know what he says after making man, "It is VERY good". We are good bro, don't let fundies get you down with a guilt trip of original sin.

quote:Originally posted by choytw:

conservative inerrentist garbage....

ok. no specifics huh? the whole things junk? Hard to combat that.

no, i don't think the whole things junk. I think the hijacking of evangelical christianity by conservatives, agenda-pushers and fundamentalists is reprehensible.

Today's interesting fact (here-say): In a publication entitled Fundamentals published by one of the earlier American fundamentalists, inerrancy was rejected as means of understanding the bible. To the best of my knowledge, inerrancy is a relatively recent approach to understanding the bible.

quote:Originally posted by aTribeCalledSean:



Hey man, fuck original sin. It never says original sin or badness once in the bible. You know what God says after he makes things, "It is good", you know what he says after making man, "It is VERY good". We are good bro, don't let fundies get you down with a guilt trip of original sin.

You should make positive affirmations for the down-trodden and exploited(by religion, corporations, etc) people...no, really, you should.

quote:Originally posted by AngrySquirrel:

You should make positive affirmations for the down-trodden and exploited(by religion, corporations, etc) people...no, really, you should.



hahah, I'm not sure if the "no really you should" made it more sarcastic or more serious.

yeah, I know what you mean... besides, why would god make something that wasn't "good".

Of course, it will likely be argued that the whole forbidden fruit thing means that we "inherit sin".

There is no good and evil...

"We have, in fact, two kinds of morality side by side: one which we preach but do not practice, and another which we practice but seldom preach." Bertrand Russell Sceptical Essays (1928), "Eastern and Western Ideals of Happiness"



[This message has been edited by AngryFemme (edited 08-22-2004).]