This thread has nothing to do with god being omniscient. I know how much that argument has been done.

Well first off I think we all can agree the free will = decision making. What else would it be? Now I want you to do a little experiment for me. Think about a decision you made recently (hopefully something that isn't too trivial). I want you to analyze as hard as you can to see what was going on in your head as you made the decision. Do this experiment before you go onto the next paragraph.

Here's the conclusion I came to when I did this experiment. The logic in my brain wants me to make the best choice because of the emotional reward or consequence caused by the decision. This makes me think that our decisions are based on our mood. The mood we are in when we make decisions usually determines what type of emotional response we want from the decision. There is MAJOR scientific evidence that mood is effected by genetics and environment.

I know this argument needs to be layed out more clearly but it's a start.

[This message has been edited by pyro9555 (edited 08-27-2004).]

I am just curious what this has to do with "religious" debate...

Though I agree with you. Very perceptive. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

I am just curious what this has to do with "religious" debate...

Though I agree with you. Very perceptive. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

I kinda wanted to see what the religious people had to say. I guess this is better fit for humanities.

And what sort of religious perspective are you hoping for ?

I can't really see how God fits into that...trying to, though. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Should I delete and repost in humanities?

quote:Originally posted by pyro9555:

This thread has nothing to do with god being omniscient. I know how much that argument has been done.

Well first off I think we all can agree the free will = decision making. What else would it be? Now I want you to do a little experiment for me. Think about a decision you made recently (hopefully something that isn't too trivial). I want you to analyze as hard as you can to see what was going on in your head as you made the decision. Do this experiment before you go onto the next paragraph.

Here's the conclusion I came to when I did this experiment. The logic in my brain wants me to make the best choice because of the emotional reward or consequence caused by the decision. This makes me think that our decisions are based on our mood. The mood we are in when we make decisions usually determines what type of emotional response we want from the decision. There is MAJOR scientific evidence that mood is effected by genetics and environment.

I know this argument needs to be layed out more clearly but it's a start.

[This message has been edited by pyro9555 (edited 08-27-2004).]



Not true.

Say I'm a hassidic Jew, I want bacon, I want bacon badly. However I choose not to eat it. Eating the bacon would bring me emotional and physical satisfaction. But I choose not to follow through.

quote:Originally posted by pyro9555:

This thread has nothing to do with god being omniscient. I know how much that argument has been done.

Well first off I think we all can agree the free will = decision making. What else would it be?

You have still not defined what free will is.

Free will = decision making, and

Decision making = free will.

So what ?

Everyone makes some valid points, but what the fuck do people have against free will?

No one has anything against free will. People are just trying to disprove Christianity by disproving or arguing about free will.

quote:Originally posted by pyro9555:

... This makes me think that our decisions are based on our mood. The mood we are in when we make decisions usually determines what type of emotional response we want from the decision. There is MAJOR scientific evidence that mood is effected by genetics and environment.I think "inclinations" is a better term than mood. An alcoholic is more "inclined" to have another drink and less "inclined" to avert a hang-over. We overcome our wrong "inclinations" by being responsible.

This is why the Bible teaches two great truths: God's sovereignty and man's responsibility. We can see both sides of this great coin taught throughout the Bible in verses like John 6:37

"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out."

The Father gives - that teaches God's sovereignty, but man comes - that teaches man's responsibility. One coin with two sides. One door with a sign on the outside, "All who come to Me", and a sign on the inside, "All that the Father draws".

[This message has been edited by LogicalChoice (edited 08-30-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by aTribeCalledSean:

No one has anything against free will. People are just trying to disprove Christianity by disproving or arguing about free will.

And the flaw with this argument is that free will cannot be explained. Again, it's something intangible, that cannot be reproduced in a lab.

*shrugs*

It's futile.

quote:Originally posted by pyro9555:

Here's the conclusion I came to when I did this experiment. The logic in my brain wants me to make the best choice because of the emotional reward or consequence caused by the decision. This makes me think that our decisions are based on our mood. The mood we are in when we make decisions usually determines what type of emotional response we want from the decision.



God says this in the Bible, in fact, several times in Proverbs alone.

One obscure example is Prov 9:13- 18

quote:Originally posted by aTribeCalledSean:



Not true.

Say I'm a hassidic Jew, I want bacon, I want bacon badly. However I choose not to eat it. Eating the bacon would bring me emotional and physical satisfaction. But I choose not to follow through.

That would be, because by following the Law, your "mood" (in terms of this thread) are either: (1)satisfied by following the Law

(2)you hope to be more satisfied (Blessed by God) by following the Law than you would be by giving in to your own desires.

Let's reverse your example for a moment..

You are a hassidic Jew. You want pork. You give in and eat the pork.

YOur decision was based on your "mood" that the short term satisfaction of eating an unclean thing out weighs the long term satisfaction of wanting God's blessing for following the Law.

quote:Originally posted by Uncus:

You have still not defined what free will is.

Free will = decision making, and

Decision making = free will.

So what ?



He didnt need to define it because he started by saying that he assumes that we all agree with what free will is... that being equal to decision making.



I, however, view this as incomplete.

Free will is the decision between following ones own "fleshly" desires vs. following God's Will.

It all boils down to the decision: God or me.

It's actually be founded that when you are mocked by others because your decisions, the same parts of your brain react to the mockery as if you were experiencing physical pain. This is probally the one reason people make decisions that they do anymore; fear of mockery from others around them. If mockery feels like physical pain, why endure it by making afew decisions that the masses will disown you for?