well.......im kinda at a religious crisis in my life......i dont know wheter or not i belive in god...I was brought up and live in a Catholic family and i believe in a lot of the values, but god, and heaven, and everything are a little hard to believe....and prayer frustrates me...I mean, (this is an example....i didnt pray for this) "god dont let my dog die"

well.....if your dog dies...then "it was meant to be" or "god intended that to happen" or "you prayed wrong,(or something)", BUT if it lives, its divine intervention...or a miracle......so why not leave it up to fate?whats the differance? if there is no afterlife.....when you die...your....gone *poof* not there....yeah...you cant even think....that would suck....and how do we know that all this is true???i mean, how do we know that the bible wasnt made by some hobo?(sorry, that was stupid cuz we have proof jesus lived and his seciples) but i mean the other parts...LIKE how does the desciples that were sleeping away from jesus in the garden hear what he was praying to god about...how do we know what god said back?

Any comments or help?

p.s. i think sites like this are just sick! (not totse, the one below) for god sakes this preacher protested at Mr. Rogers funeral cuz "he didnt do his part to tell all gays they are going to hell".... www.godhatesfags.com (http://www.godhatesfags.com) ....so..hateful..

[This message has been edited by drkphnx (edited 08-29-2004).]

[This message has been edited by drkphnx (edited 08-29-2004).]

u r right about the prayer thing. if your dog doesnt die because u prayed for it not to die it is not a miricle. now if your dog lost all of its fur because of some type of cancer and your vet said that the tumor grew back after kemotherapy or whaterver and the dog only has 2 days to live, and then on the 3rd day the vet says the tumor mysteriously disappeared and your dog is all active agian dispite the kemotheripy, and u had prayed that God would be nice to u and let your dog live longer (3 days earlier), then that might be considered a miricle.

about being unsure whether or not you believe in god, thats something u gotta find for yourself. because your family is catholic or whatever doesnt make u who u are. u are your own person and it is up to you and only you to decide whether u want to seek God or not. to me, the evidence of an all-mighty being is clear. that evidence, to me, the universes existance. some people choose to believe that, dispite statistically impossible odds, we evolved and the universe was created by a big explosion. the way i see it is that such a complex universe couldnt exist without something making it that way. a chair has to have a chair maker to exist.

now expect others to reply after me and encourage u to be an athiest by posting links and evidence to refute there being a god. the choice is up to u, but remember no one can prove or disprove to you gods existance

btw about the part in the bible where the disciples write about Jesus praying to God while they were sleeping; the disciples thought that Jesus was a very interesting person and were very curious, so sometimes while the others were sleeping or doing something else, one would not be and would wittness different things. the books of the Gospel are the different views of different disciples, so one disciple may have seen something the others didnt.

[This message has been edited by soul flayer (edited 08-29-2004).]

heh thank you for your opinion and advice, i see what you mean about the univers thing....but i think maybe god intended us to evolve and god made the explosion that started it all.........the thing that make me want to believe in god....is that......it seems impossible that this beautiful world....i mean look around you..u think that this could have happened by chance.....i mean the world is so amazing that SOMETHING must have influenced it all...thanks again, any other posted will be appreciated

quote:Originally posted by drkphnx:

well.......im kinda at a religious crisis in my life......i dont know wheter or not i belive in god...I was brought up and live in a Catholic family and i believe in a lot of the values, but god, and heaven, and everything are a little hard to believe....and prayer frustrates me...I mean, (this is an example....i didnt pray for this) "god dont let my dog die"

well.....if your dog dies...then "it was meant to be" or "god intended that to happen" or "you prayed wrong,(or something)", BUT if it lives, its divine intervention...or a miracle......so why not leave it up to fate?whats the differance? if there is no afterlife.....when you die...your....gone *poof* not there....yeah...you cant even think....that would suck....and how do we know that all this is true???i mean, how do we know that the bible wasnt made by some hobo?(sorry, that was stupid cuz we have proof jesus lived and his seciples) but i mean the other parts...LIKE how does the desciples that were sleeping away from jesus in the garden hear what he was praying to god about...how do we know what god said back?

Any comments or help?

p.s. i think sites like this are just sick! (not totse, the one below) for god sakes this preacher protested at Mr. Rogers funeral cuz "he didnt do his part to tell all gays they are going to hell".... www.godhatesfags.com (http://www.godhatesfags.com) ....so..hateful..

[This message has been edited by drkphnx (edited 08-29-2004).]

[This message has been edited by drkphnx (edited 08-29-2004).]

Don't let fuckers like Phelps turn you away from god. He is just an angry, angry little man, and since his kids are too big for him to beat up anymore, he needed to channel all that rage somewhere - guess where?

yeah i know...hes sickening...i hate hate

quote:Originally posted by drkphnx:

well...LIKE how does the desciples that were sleeping away from jesus in the garden hear what he was praying to god about...how do we know what god said back?

Any comments or help?I'll offer a few comments. If you read the opening sentence from the gospel of Luke, you'll find that Luke set out to "set in order" a narrative of the events surrounding Jesus' life, death and resurrection. He surely would have "interviewed" Jesus' disciples, Roman soldiers, Pilate, and the like. If we consider that Jesus spoke with His disciples a number of times after His death and before His final ascension into heaven, we can conclude that this is one of the many things that they discussed.

But your post is really asking about answers to prayer, and I think you misunderstand what Biblical prayer is like. Prayer is the Christians way of speaking to God. The Bible is God's way of speaking to the Christian. Most often prayer for the Christian isn't asking for answers, but instead thanking and being grateful for the answers already given. When it comes to the Christian asking, there are a couple of general principals: If God answers our requests, then we know we have asked in accordance to His desires. If God doesn't answer the way we like, we've strayed from what God wants. This is one of the ways we can discern God's will.

Since you are at a cross-road (a religious crisis), what do you think about Jesus? Do you believe that He died for our sins? Do you believe He rose from the dead? Your answers to these questions will hopefully make the fork in the road a little clearer.

well.....im not sure....as you can see im kinda trying to decide things like that right now

quote:But your post is really asking about answers to prayer, and I think you misunderstand what Biblical prayer is like. Prayer is the Christians way of speaking to God. The Bible is God's way of speaking to the Christian. Most often prayer for the Christian isn't asking for answers, but instead thanking and being grateful for the answers already given. When it comes to the Christian asking, there are a couple of general principals: If God answers our requests, then we know we have asked in accordance to His desires. If God doesn't answer the way we like, we've strayed from what God wants. This is one of the ways we can discern God's will.

While an unanswered prayer very well may mean that you are not praying within God's will, it could also mean that you ARE praying within God's will, but the time hasn't come for that prayer to be brought to fruition.

I am a musician. I sing, I play piano, flute, guitar, clarinet, and a little bit of drums.

But mostly I sing, and I had thought for a long time that God gave this talent to me in order for me to use it for His glory.

The opportunity never presented itself, and so I began to pray about it. "Lord, show me how to use the gifts you have given me."

For some reason or another, it didn't happen for a long time. When it did, I could see in hindsight the reasoning for making me wait.

Sometimes, God just wants you to think about it for a while. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

DRKPHNX - Why are you trying to decide ? Are you feeling something internally that is driving you to seek out truth ?

Why are you deeming this process a "crisis" ?

quote:Originally posted by drkphnx:

well.....im not sure....as you can see im kinda trying to decide things like that right nowIts good you're thinking this through. Inherent in the gospel message are a few givens. For example, the statement "Christ died for our sins", indicates that there is a punishment for sin. While not everyone agrees what is a fair and just punishment, the Bible says that death is (and it says that we're all criminals). Show me somone who claims they will never die, and I guess we have a contradiction with what the Bible teaches, or a lunatic.

Do you agree that punishment goes along with crime? What is a fair and just punishment for someone who rebels against God? Most kings either execute traitors or expel them from the country, and that has the ring of fairness and justice I think. But what if the King would welcome the traitor into His country? That would be special wouldn't it? The King wouldn't have to do that, but in grace He could choose to do that. The traitor can then remain a rebel, or can come to the King on bended knee.

That kind of makes the following statement from the Bible come alive:

"For He (the Father) made Him (Jesus) who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him".

It's good your questioning something, and not following it blindly. What I suggest you do is you go to various, pro and anti religion sites, and see just what agress with what you currently believe.



Do a search of all religions; find one that suites exacly what you believe. Maybe there is one like that, maybe there isn't. In the end, all you have to do is find yourself before you find religion. Knowing who you are helps you know what you believe, and what you wish to become.



Just so you have a general idea of some of the biblical stand points from a different view point, I suggest you visit http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com



Now, I will leave you wil this little link, and wish you luck with finding what you believe.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/knows.html



Edit: Remove the spaces from the words, it seems to get really messed up on here for some reason when I link to it XD

[This message has been edited by Gyhth (edited 08-31-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Gyhth (edited 08-31-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Gyhth:

It's good your questioning something, and not following it blindly. What I suggest you do is you go to various, pro and anti religion sites, and see just what agress with what you currently believe.



Do a search of all religions; find one that suites exacly what you believe. Maybe there is one like that, maybe there isn't. In the end, all you have to do is find yourself before you find religion. Knowing who you are helps you know what you believe, and what you wish to become.



Just so you have a general idea of some of the biblical stand points from a different view point, I suggest you visit http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com



Now, I will leave you wil this little link, and wish you luck with finding what you believe.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/pure.html



Edit: Remove the spaces from the words, it seems to get really messed up on here for some reason when I link to it XD

[This message has been edited by Gyhth (edited 08-31-2004).]

Yes, that's all fine and good, for PAGANS, however finding whatever YOU believe and fitting into a mold (title) isn't going to cut it.

It's about finding what is truly right, not just what you want to believe in.

This isn't like trying to find a sport that suits your physique...this is serious, and not something to be toying with.

In the end, you had better make sure you made the right decision (you will know it, deep down, if you have).

I'm not saying it is. I'm saying they should fine a religion they believe in; one that reflects who THEY are. I don't mean one that you can just go around saying "yay, I'm <Enter religion here>". I meant they should find a religion that reflects what they already believe.

quote:Originally posted by Gyhth:

I'm not saying it is. I'm saying they should fine a religion they believe in; one that reflects who THEY are. I don't mean one that you can just go around saying "yay, I'm <Enter religion here>". I meant they should find a religion that reflects what they already believe.

Great links bro.

Actually, prayer DOES work, but not necessarily because of divine intervention, it is more a power of mind thing.

Christianity is mostly about fear, denial, genocide and power trips. Not to mention pederast priests.

God, however, is alive and well, but is all about love and bears little resemblence to the paranoid deity portrayed in the Bible.

quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:

Actually, prayer DOES work, but not necessarily because of divine intervention, it is more a power of mind thing.



Wow, I've been spurting that for years, and people usually accuse me of contradicting myself. I have many, many christian friends who do not necessarily agree with my secular humanist belief system, and it just seems to irk them that I claim to "pray" about things I struggle with. "Meditate" would probably be a more concise term. I think of it more in terms of positive thinking and hardcore focus. It works, a great deal of the time. Actually realizing that there is no such thing as divine intervention is what empowers me to keep doing it. I like to think that all the solutions are right there in my own brain, eluding me only until I pray/meditate/focus on it harder.

wow....great responses, im gonna check out those links and get back to you guys when maybe i work something out,

quote:Originally posted by drkphnx:

wow....great responses, im gonna check out those links and get back to you guys when maybe i work something out,

Good luck. Seriously.

As a rule, Catholics who think tend to get excommunicated and stuff.