If Jesus were to have a second coming or first coming (depending who you ask) would we believe him?

What is the importance of the second coming?

i believe that according to the book of revelations, two-thirds of the population would not believe and would be sent to the lake of fire, a third would be resurrected into immortal life in the city on a hill that is always in daylight...

the importance of the second coming is that jesus would return to say 'i told you so, now go to hell' to most people on earth. so you better watch out, etc...

FIRST QUESTION:

Will there be an opportunity for salvation after the rapture?

2 Thessalonians 2:8 is the passage that raises this question, and we could spend a lot of time dealing with it but let me just give you the passage and then another passage or two and an answer.

2 Thessalonians 2:8, “And then shall that wicked one be revealed,” and this seems to be the picture of the tribulation time, clearly it's that, “and then shall that wicked one,” the beast the antichrist if you will, “be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:” the antichrist kingdom will be destroyed when Christ returns, “Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they receive not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie: That all might be judged who believed not the truth but, had pleasure in unrighteousness." And some people say that proves that if your alive in the tribulation, God will send you a delusion and make you believe a lie and not believe the truth.

Now some people say that once the rapture takes place nobody gets saved after that, and the reason is that we are given a strong delusion that we should believe the lie.

I have a problem with that, I think that is a general statement. I think that will be among the godless in the world, who are already committed to Satan, who are already sold out to the beast, who are already engulfed in his system, there will be a convincing in their minds that Satan is the right ruler. That the beast and the false prophet are the ones to be worshiped. I think God will let that delusion run its course, but at the same time I don’t think that passage is meant to say that their won't be anybody who believes. And the reason is given in Revelation 7.

Revelation 7:9: Here we are in the midst of the tribulation--we know that because there is no question-- chapter 6 we’ve already seen the first six seals unfolded which is the unfolding of the tribulation, there has been the antichrist, war, terrible famine in verses 5 and 6, death in 7 and 8; we see the martyrs in verses 9 to 11 crying under the altar; the collapse of heaven in verses 12 and following.

So we’re in the middle of the tribulation, sometime, or at the latter part of the tribulation really, the latter part. And it says in verse 9, “After this I beheld,” after what? After the 144,000 of Israel. You say, "Who are the 144,000 of Israel?" They are the witnesses; they are God’s witnesses in the tribulation. During the tribulation, chapter 7 says, there is going to be 144,000 Jews, 12,000 out of each tribe. People say, "Well how are they going to know, they don’t even know what tribe they are in?" Well, God knows that. God is going to organize it--12,000 from every tribe. They’re going to go out to preach, and the result is in verse 9, "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; and cried with a loud voice, saying, 'Salvation to our God who sits on the throne, and unto the Lamb.' And all the angels stood round about..."

Who is this multitude? Who are these people that have been saved of all nations, and kindreds, and peoples, and tongues? Who are they? Well that’s the questions of verse 13: Who Are They? And from where did they come? And verse 14, "And I said to him, 'Sir, you know.' And he said to me, 'These are they who came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.'" See, those people are saved during the tribulation, they have to be. That’s clear.

So you've got to have people saved in the tribulation. I believe that a man has his lifetime; if he lives 35 years, the rapture takes place and he has got seven more, before the return of Christ (at least) to make a decision--at any point during this period of time he can make that commitment.

There is also an indication in chapter 14 where we find that there are those who are redeemed.

Now, in addition to this tremendous group of Gentiles, who are the 144,000? Jews. You think that these are unconverted Jews, preaching the gospel ? No, they can't be, they’ve already been converted. That’s Romans 11:26, "So all Israel shall be saved."

So, there is going to be a great revival. God is going to sprinkle clean water upon Israel, Ezekiel said. "Put a new heart in them, a heart of flesh; take away their stony heart." They are going to be reborn spiritually, they’re going to be the catalyst to reach the world. In addition to that, there are going to be two amazing witnesses in chapter 11, proclaiming the truth about the gospel, and the great story about them is that they are killed by the beast and his system; they let them lie in the street and so forth, and they rise from the dead.

So there is going to be preaching and that means that there's going to be people saved. So every man has his life time. You don’t need to say, "Well, if the Lord comes and you're still here--it's hopeless! It isn’t hopeless. It's going to be terrible, though: Zechariah says two out of three of Israel who are converted in the tribulation will be killed by the beast.

They will be chased from one end of the world to the next. The beast is going to chase them right out of the area of Jerusalem, they are going to run to Edom to try to hide in the mountains and the beast and his army going after them, and Revelation says the ground is going to open up and swallow the beast up.

Many of them are going to starve, many of them are going to be slaughtered--if they don’t take the mark, they will be killed. The rest of us who know and love the Lord Jesus Christ will be at the marriage supper of the Lamb enjoying his blessed presence and feasting in heaven. That’s a far better place to be, far wiser to come to Christ before the rapture takes place.



SECOND QUESTION:

Various denominations of Christians differ in their interpretations of the manner and order of Jesus’ return, yet we all believe that He will indeed return and this is the main thing, for the Second Coming is a very important doctrine in Christianity. In fact, it has a large place in the Scripture, being prophesied hundreds of times from Genesis to Revelation. Daniel prophecies: "Behold, One like the Son of Man, coming with the clouds of heaven!" (Daniel 7:13). And Zechariah: "In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives" (Zechariah 14:4) and Malachi proclaimed, "The Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple ... But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For he is like a refiner’s fire..." (Malachi 3:1 & 2).

In the New Testament the second coming of Jesus is even more prominent. It is spoken of over three hundred times, and there are whole chapters that deal with the second coming, such as Matthew 24 and 25; Mark 13 and Luke 21. Some books of the New Testament deal mainly with the second coming, such as the book of Revelation and 1st and 2nd Thessalonians.

Jesus Himself spoke of His return in a factual way, just like He had spoken of the destruction of the temple - a prophecy that was fulfilled not long afterwards, thus confirming that, likewise, when He spoke of His return, it must also be taken literally and that it will indeed come to pass (Matthew 24:34).

What exactly did Jesus say about His coming?

1. He will return personally. "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself" (John 14:3; also 21:20-23).

2. He will return unexpectedly. "Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not expect Him (Matthew 24:44; also see Matthew 25:13).

3. He will return suddenly. "For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be" (Matthew 24:27).



4. He will return in the glory of His Father with His angels. (Matthew 16:27 and 25:31)

There are others in Scripture, besides Jesus, who also said things about His second coming, such as the "men in white", the angels, who spoke to the disciples on the Mount of Olives as they watched Jesus disappear up into the clouds. They declared that Jesus would return as they saw Him go - personally, bodily and visibly (Acts 1:11). Many of the Apostles also affirmed in writing that Jesus would return personally, suddenly, unexpectedly, publicly and with glory (Acts 3:19-21; 2 Peter 3:3, 4, 8-10; 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 17; Philippians 3:20, 21; Titus 2:13; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10; Hebrews 9:28; 10:37; James 5:7, 8; 1 John 228; 3:2, 3; Revelation 1:7; 22:12l; Jude 14, 15).

What do we learn in Scripture about the Purpose of Jesus Christ’s return?

1. He will return to reveal Himself. "Every eye shall see Him" (Rev. 1:7). His deity will be recognized and He will be glorious accompanied by a host of angels, and His Church will also be glorious with Him (1 John 3:2; Colossians 3:4).



2. He will return to receive His own unto Himself (John 14:3). He returns to the faithful Church, as the Bridegroom comes for His pure Bride and takes her with him (see Revelation 19:7-9). The Apostle Paul writes to the Christians of Thessalonika: "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord" (1 Thessalonians 4:16 & 17).

3. He will return to give believers victory. Our salvation will be fully realized at the time of His appearing. The Apostle Paul explained, "we shall all be changed - in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. ... so when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, ‘Death is swallowed up in victory’. ... the sting of death is sin, ... but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ" (1 Corinthians 15:52-57).

4. He will return to judge and reward the believer. The believers will not be judged for sin. When we ask God to forgive us, all sin is gone and forgotten since Jesus took our sins upon the cross (2 Corinthians 5:21; John 5:24). We will, however, be judged according to how we used our God-given talents, money and opportunities entrusted to us (John 5:27-30; Matthew 20:1-16; 25:14-30; Luke 19:11-27). It is true that we are saved by grace and it is a free gift, but we have responsibilities, for we are saved unto good works (Eph. 2:8-10) and each will give an account of himself to God (Romans 14:10-12). In this life, the Lord gives us opportunity to do good and thus "lay up treasures in heaven" (Matthew 6:20). Accordingly, when Jesus returns He will reward the believers for the good works they do, be it caring for the sick, giving to the needy, or hospitality (Matthew 10:42; 25:21, 34-40) and rewards are for those who endure temptations, suffering, hardships and persecution (Matthew 5:11, 12; 2 Timothy 2:12; James 1:12). In John’s vision on the Island of Patmos, Jesus said, "And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work" (Revelation 22:12). What is the reward? In Scripture it is often represented by "a crown." In Revelation 3:11 we are exhorted and warned, "Behold, I come quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown." It is also described as an imperishable crown; a crown of rejoicing; a crown of righteousness; a crown of life and a crown of glory (1 Corinthians 9:25; Revelation 3:11; 1 Thessalonians 2:19; 2 Timothy 4:8; James 1:12; Revelation 2:10; 1 Peter 5:4). Until the Lord returns and takes us to be with Him, we don’t know exactly what the reward will look like, but it will certainly be a glorious distinction of some kind. Of course, our being present with the Lord and reigning with Him is a great reward in and of itself (Rev. 3:21; 2 Timothy 2:11, 12).

5. He will return to judge the anti-Christ, namely the beast, and also the false prophet and their armies. The Lord is victorious over them all at the battle of Armageddon (Revelation 16:12-16; 19:1-16) and the leaders will be cast into the lake of fire and the armies slain by the power of the word of Jesus (Revelation 19:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:8-10). When the opposition to Jesus is destroyed, He will then set up His Kingdom.



6. He will return to bind Satan. Satan will be banished from the realm where he had previously worked and ruled. The demons surely are also banished along with him (Revelation 20:1, 2).

7. He will return to judge the nations. (Matthew 25:31-46; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10; Acts 17:31) Following the battle of Armageddon, the Lord will have all nations gather before Him for judgement as He sits upon His throne of glory. They will be divided as the shepherd separates the goats from the sheep according to their works of righteousness or wickedness and on how they treated the followers of Jesus. The righteous sheep nations will be chosen to remain in Christ’s kingdom and the others will go to eternal punishment. You can read of this in Matthew 25:31-46.

8. He will return to deliver and bless creation. The earth will be regenerated when Christ returns to sit upon the throne (Matthew 19:28). Then the curse which came as a result of sin will be removed (Gen. 3:17-19; Romans 8:19-22) and all creation will be restored to its original form of perfection and glory.

9. Finally, He will return to set up His Kingdom. The angels declare: "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of his Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!" (Revelation 11:15). There are many prophesies about Christ’s kingdom and dominion over the earth and all people (Daniel 7:13, 14).

We do not know when Jesus will come again, but He gave us some signs that will signal His soon return, such as trials and tribulations, deceivers and false prophets coming in His Name, the coming of the Antichrist, an increase in earthquakes, war, famines, pestilence (Matthew 24:5-26) and that "this gospel will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come" (Matthew 24:14). As believers, the second coming is our blessed hope (Titus 2:13) - a hope for which we are longing and anticipating. It is a strong incentive for us to work diligently to spread the gospel and keep occupied, for time is short and we still have much work to do. It is also an incentive for godliness and for us to be watchful and to pray, as the Lord instructed (Matthew 24:42, 43; 25:13). We are to love His appearing and wait expectantly for His coming (2 Timothy 4:7-9). We are to occupy ourselves with good works, living a holy life (Romans 13:11-14; 1 Thessalonians 5:23, 24), remaining in the assembly with other believers (Hebrews 10:25) and continually fulfil His commission of making disciples.

The Apostle John said, 2000 years ago, "it is the last hour." How much more today is Jesus’ coming closer? "For yet a little while, and He who is coming will come and will not tarry" (Hebrews 10:37).

[This message has been edited by Digital_Savior (edited 09-08-2004).]

Hmm... there was something you said there that reminded me of the simplistic, childish view of Christianity that I used to hold and believe...

That the Good were blessed in the end, and the wicked cursed.

But meh...

Its weird...

You don't have MSN do you DS? would would love to talk to you at some point if you do.

quote:Originally posted by BaKeD_gOoDs:

If Jesus were to have a second coming or first coming (depending who you ask) would we believe him?

What is the importance of the second coming?

Let me start with saying that i didnt read DigitalSavior's reply yet (only have a couple of minutes before i have to get somestuff done), so if she covered this part, i'm sorry for repeating.

I also want to emphasize that this post is mostly my opinion, based on my understanding from my studying of prophecy, and that it does go against some teaching (even in part, against the teaching of Lutherans, which i am).

Eil mentioned the reference from Revelations, that 2/3 would not believe.

About 2000 years ago, when Jesus was here the first time, many thought that He was the Messiah for awhile, and because He did not fit what they believed about what the Prophecy predicted, many changed their minds. The Jewish people thought that the Messiah would be a warrior-King, that would overthrow the oppressor, and bring eternal peace. And at that time, they viewed the Romans as the oppressor.

Funny thing though, it was also foretold that the Messiah would be rejected.

OK, now jump ahead to the time that Revelations is referring (whenever that may be). Revelations speaks of THE anti-christ (as opposed to the "many anti-christs" that are also foretold), and that, for a time he will be accepted as the Christ.

I think that this will be sorta the same situation. The Anti-Christ will probably 'fit' most of the prophecies, atleast moreso on the surface. Some will be "accomplished" with lies and deceit, and others from situation.

I also think that the Anti-Christ will have more of a following (for a time) then Jesus had. Not just because of modern (during that time) technology or the greater population, but because he will be more "flamboyant", catching the world's attention.

Now, getting more closely back to answering the topic. Jesus' return will "fit" the conception that the Jews have of the Messiah. A "warrior-King", to overthrow the oppressor, and bring peace eternal. But this time, it will be understood who the oppressor is. This would lead to (or come from), the final battle.

OK, gotta go. I asked for a day of vacation, and it was dependent on no-one calling in sick. No sick-o's, got the day off, gotta finish building my breezeway....

God Bless You All

quote:Originally posted by dearestnight_falcon:

Hmm... there was something you said there that reminded me of the simplistic, childish view of Christianity that I used to hold and believe...

That the Good were blessed in the end, and the wicked cursed.

But meh...

Its weird...

You don't have MSN do you DS? would would love to talk to you at some point if you do.

Nope...AIM. *smiles*

I think you missed the most important part. Jesus has come again. His name is Andrew WK, and his rapture is known more informally as a "circle pit".

Jesus' second coming: I'll believe it when I see it. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Also, why didn't Jesus just accomplish everything the first time around, why make us wait for his Second Coming, he was already here once, right? Is Jesus a tease, you know, a blue baller?

Did Jesus have a busy schedule, was he due back in heaven for an important business meeting, and had to put the whole "rapture" thing on the back-burner for a couple thousand years?

And, what, exactly is Jesus doing right now in heaven that is so damn important that he can't get away from the office and take care of this whole "Judgment Day" thing? Hmmm? Hmmm?

(I'm not serious, people, so don't waste your time composing long and windy posts to discredit me, I'm just having fun....)



[This message has been edited by Social Junker (edited 09-09-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Social Junker:

Jesus' second coming: I'll believe it when I see it. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Also, why didn't Jesus just accomplish everything the first time around, why make us wait for his Second Coming, he was already here once, right? Is Jesus a tease, you know, a blue baller?

Did Jesus have a busy schedule, was he due back in heaven for an important business meeting, and had to put the whole "rapture" thing on the back-burner for a couple thousand years?

And, what, exactly is Jesus doing right now in heaven that is so damn important that he can't get away from the office and take care of this whole "Judgment Day" thing? Hmmm? Hmmm?

(I'm not serious, people, so don't waste your time composing long and windy posts to discredit me, I'm just having fun....)



[This message has been edited by Social Junker (edited 09-09-2004).]

Actually, you probably won't. Seeing is not ALWAYS believing.

He had to fulfill the prophecies that were given long before his birth, to prove that God does exist. The fulfillment of prophecy is (I believe) the number one proof that God exists. How else could these predictions have been made ?

God said that Lucifer would be allowed to reigm over the earth for a certain period of time. This will be fulfilled, so Jesus must wait.

Thanks for poking fun at the single most important event of our existence.

Cute.

the supposed 'fulfillment of prophesy' you speak of is nothing to be understood as mystical. especially considering the scarcity of hard facts, the contradicting accounts, the virtual lack of first-hand accounts, the tendency of people to re-write history, and the depravity of fanatics. besides, it's not like jesus is the only religious figure to have ever 'fulfilled prophesy.'

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:



God said that Lucifer would be allowed to reigm over the earth for a certain period of time. This will be fulfilled, so Jesus must wait.





Yes, I've heard this before, but a question I have is why would Lucifer be allowed to rule over the earth, what is the purpose of this? Does the Bible give a reason (regrettably, I am not well-versed in the Bible) or is it one of the questions that fall under "the unknowable will of God" category? I used to ask my pastor this, but he never really gave me a satisfactory answer.

quote:



Thanks for poking fun at the single most important event of our existence.

Cute.

That is, of course, debatable (yes, I know, not to Christians, but it is to me). http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

If there WAS a Second Coming, Jesus would probably be thrown in the nuthouse along with all the other "Second Comings."

Jesus isn't the Messiah, and he's not coming back. I don't understand why you keep telling yourselves he is; the Roman Empire is long gone, and Christians generally aren't persecuted for their beliefs anymore. It's been 2000 years, get over it.

[This message has been edited by Charles Thunder (edited 09-09-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Eil:

the supposed 'fulfillment of prophesy' you speak of is nothing to be understood as mystical. especially considering the scarcity of hard facts, the contradicting accounts, the virtual lack of first-hand accounts, the tendency of people to re-write history, and the depravity of fanatics. besides, it's not like jesus is the only religious figure to have ever 'fulfilled prophesy.'



Oh ? Can you name another ?

I prophetize that the great Eil will post in this thread once more!

there are plenty, digital. some people think muhammed ali was the fulfillment of islamic prophesy. hindus, rastafarians, branch davidians, mormons, etc... all of these believe that certain prophesies have been fulfilled.

besides, prophesy is often self-fulfilling. again, nothing mystical.

there's one more...

quote:Originally posted by Eil:

there are plenty, digital. some people think muhammed ali was the fulfillment of islamic prophesy. hindus, rastafarians, branch davidians, mormons, etc... all of these believe that certain prophesies have been fulfilled.

besides, prophesy is often self-fulfilling. again, nothing mystical.

They "THINK" ? Can you provide documentation that PROVES these prophecies ?

I can prove that prophecies in the Bible have been fulfilled.

Gimme some time.

I'm a somewhat erudite person and am pretty confident in my perception and instinct, but I can't say for sure that I would recognize the messiah if I saw him/her/it. I'd like to think I would, but I'm not 100% sure.

I'm pretty sure, though.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

They "THINK" ? Can you provide documentation that PROVES these prophecies ?

I can prove that prophecies in the Bible have been fulfilled.

Gimme some time.

It's "think" because contrary to what you may want to believe, neither they nor you, can "prove" them. At least, not any prophecies dealing with the supernatural or the paranormal. In which case, what would be the point? A prophecy was already fulfilled right in front of your very eyes!



[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 09-09-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

They "THINK" ? Can you provide documentation that PROVES these prophecies ?

I can prove that prophecies in the Bible have been fulfilled.

Gimme some time.

you know i can't and wouldn't - i don't even believe them. that does not mean that a hindu couldn't. you can provide all the 'proof' you want, i will try to keep an open mind, but i must warn you... i've looked into it. it didn't satisfy my skepticism in the least.

webster's definition of proof: a : the cogency of evidence that compels acceptance by the mind of a truth or a fact b : the process or an instance of establishing the validity of a statement especially by derivation from other statements in accordance with principles of reasoning c : something that induces certainty or establishes validity

unless you have a carbon-dated prophesy (yeah i said carbon-dated) that says the messiah will have a hairy butt mole in the shape of a cross with an authentic accompanying photo of jesus's ass, why should i believe your highly persuasive, but ultimately biased 'proofs' above any other whacko prophesies with 'proof'?

that's gotta be the strangest run-on sentence ever.

[This message has been edited by Eil (edited 09-09-2004).]

Does Jesus love me?

*laughs*

I agree ! http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

Anyway, I'll get back to ya...

How would you identify him?(speacial marks or anything like that or would it be just what he says) I assume he would come back in human form as he did before. So if you were him, how would you know? Would having a birthday with the astrological number of 999 be significant? Did Christ have preminitions of the future? Did he cultivate cannabis for the sick? Did he feel the pain of others? If we are at the latter part of the tribulation could he already be on earth? Sorry about all the questions.

""God said that Lucifer would be allowed to reigm over the earth for a certain period of time. This will be fulfilled, so Jesus must wait.""

"Yes, I've heard this before, but a question I have is why would Lucifer be allowed to rule over the earth, what is the purpose of this? Does the Bible give a reason (regrettably, I am not well-versed in the Bible) or is it one of the questions that fall under "the unknowable will of God" category? I used to ask my pastor this, but he never really gave me a satisfactory answer."

It is to show what would happen if satan was left unchecked. It's like taking away electricity from your teenage daughter as punishment for leaving the lights on all the time. Or if you prefer it in a non-metaphorical way. Only with the complete absense of God, can the true power of Satan be realized.

Answer to other prophacies being forfilled.I believe prophecies can be nullified not only by god but also by satan. You must look past the fact that it was nullified and look at the result of it being fulfilled. Did it perpetuate love or did it perpetuate hate.

quote:Originally posted by maximusg:

Does Jesus love me?



Even though i am sure you have posted this as a "set up", i will answer.

Yes, Jesus Agape/Agapae you. But the question is, is it reciprocal?

Originally posted by Social Junker:

Also, why didn't Jesus just accomplish everything the first time around, why make us wait for his Second Coming, he was already here once, right? Is Jesus a tease, you know, a blue baller?

Kind of a tough question, though Digital did answer it (with reguards to prophecy). The answer has a few sides to it.

Anyway, you sort of answered it yourself. You said, "why make us wait for his Second Coming".

First, unless you are Jewish, before Jesus' first coming, we (non-Jews) did not have the gift of Grace. The Jews had to reject the Messiah in order for the Gentiles to be included in the inheritence (basically, God changing His will--meaning legal type, not His desire-type). The Jews (as a people) are still the chosen people, and are part of the eternal covenent of God. And they wont be under Grace until they accept Jesus as the Messiah (which will be the second coming, because that is when He will be what the Jews understand the Messiah to be-- a Warrior-King, during the final battle).

Second, it was already alluded to in this thread, Satan has been allow to be the ruler of the earth, for a time. If he had been thrown into the Abyss before the Jews are under Grace, he would not be able to "do his job" as the Temptor.

Third, and this is really an extention of #1, if all things were accomplished on the first coming, then many would be lost from lack of the "Great Commission" ("Go ye therefore and teach all nations...").

I suppose somebody (most likely Eil) will mention the fact that it is said that there are(may be) provisions for those that didnt have a chance to hear the Word. Let me just say that i dont know the answer to that.

And, what, exactly is Jesus doing right now in heaven that is so damn important that he can't get away from the office and take care of this whole "Judgment Day" thing? Hmmm? Hmmm?

[B](I'm not serious, people, so don't waste your time composing long and windy posts to discredit me, I'm just having fun....)

Again, I dont know what He is doing now. But Judgement Day was appointed by God, and will happen when the time happens.

You may have been just funning, but since you brought this to the table, there may be others that are wondering these same questions. And thanks for the concern, but it wasnt a waste of my time. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif) God Bless

[This message has been edited by xtreem5150ahm (edited 09-11-2004).]