Affixed to a column at the corner of the Orsini Palace in Rome at the beginning of the sixteenth century was the following comparison between Christ and the Pope:

Christ said: "My kingdom is not of this world." The Pope conquers cities by force.

Christ had a crown of thorns. The Pope wears a triple diadem.

Christ washed the feet of his disciples. The Pope has his kissed by kings.

Christ paid tribute. The Pope takes it.

Christ fed the sheep. The Pope shears them for his own profit.

Christ was poor. The Pope wishes to be master of the world.

Christ carried on His shoulders the cross. The Pope is carried on the shoulders of his servants in liveries of gold.

Christ despised riches. The Pope has no other passion than for gold.

Christ drove out the merchants from the temple. The Pope welcomes them.

Christ preached peace. The Pope is the torch of war.

Christ was meekness. The Pope is pride personified.

Christ promulgated laws that the Pope tramples underfoot.

[Quoted by Jeremiah J. Crowley: Romanism. A Menace to the Nation. Aurora, Missouri, 1912, p. 205.]

Christ knew no sin. Scores of the self-styled 'Vicars of Christ' – the professing 'Holy Fathers' – were so depraved and base that they left a history of adultery, bribery, debauchery, drunkenness, fornication, incest, murder, perversion, rape, seduction, simony, sodomy, treachery and whoredom. After a visit to Rome, the great Italian poet Dante described the Vatican as a "sewer of corruption". [Quoted in Ralph Woodrow: Babylon. Mystery Religion. Riverside, California, 1966, p. 94f.]

Christ told his followers to keep the commandments. The Popes have methodically broken them all. Instead of practising "Thou shall not kill", Innocent III (1198-1216) not only surpassed all his predecessors in killing, but founded the most devilish institution in history – the Inquisition, which for over five hundred years was used by his successors to maintain their power against those who did not agree with the teachings of the Romish Church. It is estimated that that Church, throughout history, has been responsible for the wilful slaughter of over 100 million people.

Christ preached: "Blessed are the peacemakers." Pope Julius II (1503-13) had a passion for war bordering on frenzy. His pontificate was a perpetual war, and Europe knew no peace during the period of his life. One may easily imagine the state of the Church under a Vicar of Christ who spent his time in a camp, amidst the clash of arms, and who knew no other glory than that procured in war or the pillage of a town. His successors have faithfully carried on the belligerent tradition, supporting dictators and stirring up strife to achieve their corrupt aims.

Non-Roman-Catholic countries are being brainwashed today into believing that the nature and aims of the Roman Pontiff and his Church are not what they used to be; but Rome is ever and everywhere semper eadem, always the same. As she was throughout past centuries, so she remains today, except that she is now playing politics more astutely than she was previously.

So it is that Mangasarian, warning of Rome's thirst for American blood, states the following as "the verdict of history":

Where the priests are free, the people are slaves!

Where the priests are rich, the people are poor!

Where the priests teach, the people are ignorant!

Where the priests prosper, progress is paralysed!

Where the priests lead, they lead into misery, bondage, poverty, superstition, persecution – ruin!

[Quoted by Crowley, p. 203.]

The nineteenth-century English politician, essayist, poet, and historian Lord Macaulay, best known for his 5-volume History of England, memorably described the Papal system when he wrote:

"The experience of twelve hundred eventful years, the ingenuity and patient care of forty generations of statesmen, have improved the polity [of the Church of Rome] to such perfection that, among the contrivances that have been devised for deceiving and oppressing mankind, it occupies the highest place." [Quoted by Crowley, p. 203.]

Today, as ever, the same 'Vicar of Christ', 'Our Lord God the Pope', 'King of Heaven, Earth and Hell', while claiming to represent the lowly and humble Nazarene, still wears a triple crown of priceless value and robes resplendent with jewels! As Crowley has well said [p. 205]: "Christ had not whereon to lay His head. The Pope dwells in a Palace of four thousand rooms! What a mockery! What a delusion! What a snare is Popery!"

I don't think anyone can deny that there have been a lot bad Popes. And it's very sad.

Does this prove that Roman Catholicism is a false religion? Does it disprove the Church is set up for our salvation? Jesus never set the Church up? The teachings are false because Popes haven't followed them?

It perhaps proves that power creates corruption.

Does politicians' corruption prove our constitution wrong?

The Church and Jesus go hand in hand. It's a simple fact that you can't get around.

Jesus to St. Peter, the first Pope of the Catholic Church- Matthew 16:18,19

"And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. And I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose will be loosed in heaven."

The point is Jesus never appointed a human as the head of the church on earth but the holy spirit. It basically means that Christ is found in our hearts and the church is used as guidelines on how to do that. But for a dictator to tell you what to do and what not to do to get into heaven is wrong.

Yeah, he did apoint a human as head of the Church.

Yes Christ is found in our hearts and the Church is a guide.

So, how is our guide telling us how to get into heaven wrong?

I said he never did fuck face. My point is that catholicism is wrong

quote:Originally posted by Rab_Hamish_McTavish:

I said he never did fuck face. My point is that catholicism is wrong

Well, a lot of people interpret Matthew 16 to say that he did, so live with it.

quote:Originally posted by Rab_Hamish_McTavish:

I said he never did fuck face. My point is that catholicism is wrong

my counterpoint was that the Bible supports the Papacy.



[This message has been edited by Zman (edited 09-17-2004).]

^ No- your counter-point was that you use the bible to support the papacy. Don't mix things up.

hmmm, i think sean was looking for a thread like this...lol... "seek and you shall find"

Ok so id like some proof on how the bible supports the papacy. personally i believe the current pope is a good pope, and that the catholic church is headed in a good direction. im orthodox so im supposed to not like it but i think its gettin better.

Thats right Rab_Hamish_McTavish I agree.

Such hypocracy on the part of the papacy,

Didnt christ say something about hypocrits.

Jesus Is turning in his grave at what has been done in his name throughout history.

However Hypocracy or not the papats kept the memory of christ alive, thats irony for you.

quote:Originally posted by Zman:

my counterpoint was that the Bible supports the Papacy.



[This message has been edited by Zman (edited 09-17-2004).]

No, it supports Christianity.

You can't make excuses, or omissions for the "bad" Popes. (good intentions mean nothing when not driven by a good heart)

They are suposed to be the "Vicar of Christ", blameless, sinless. (by their own accord, which is completely un-Biblical)

Obviously, not ONE of us can attain this, and their hierarchy is nothing short of a government entity, rather than a vessel of God.

Sure, there are honest, good-hearted Christian Catholics out there, but it is a pity that they waste their time in the halls of the Catholic churches...

Jesus did not task us with upholding RELIGION, but rather himself, and God.

What the Catholic church has done is made a mockery of what Christ accomplished. It has also made a spectacle of MAN. The focus is NOT on God, but on man.

This is why I believe prayer to the "saints" is advocated. (by the way, we are ALL called saints in the New Testament.)

It is ridiculous to pray to dead men. They are just like you and me...simply because they were pious, religious men (or women) does not mean that they ought to be idolized (with prayer). It means they accomplished what Jesus and God commanded.

Their reward is in Heaven, and they no longer have ties to their earthly counterparts (meaning US).

I am sorry I didn't get back to the thread you created. It was a daunting task. There is SO MUCH to put down about the Catholic church, and I just can't seem to find the time right now.

I wasn't neglecting it intentionally.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

[This message has been edited by Digital_Savior (edited 09-19-2004).]

quote:Jesus Is turning in his grave at what has been done in his name throughout history.

WHAT ?!

You apparently missed the part where Christ was resurrected, and then raptured into Heaven. He HAS NO grave.

I know that's just a figure of speech, but taken way out of context, as it does not apply.

And the Catholic church did not keep the Bible alive...God did.

He works in mysterious ways, and man is in NO WAY responsible for Christianity's success.

And that's the problem with Catholicism. The focus is put on MAN far too much, and on God far too little.

As if God needed US to do anything !

If He uses us, it is a blessing to US. He can do whatever He pleases, on His own...he doesn't need Mary to pray for us, because He already hears our prayers (for example).

Anyway, I hope that statement wasn't intentional.



God bless.

Well that statement Was intentional, Live with it,Jesus's body lays in a grave,

Were his conciousness went I dont know.

And why the fuck did he bother,I ask myself

Who said the Popes are supposed to be sinless? And if they said that then that was a sin. No one claims Popes are sinless.

Jesus and the Church He set up for us walk hand in hand. And He founded the Church that the St. Peter happened to be the first Pope of. It's the same Church as Jesus founded.

And the focus is on God. You might FEEL it's ridiculous to pray to dead people, but that doesn't make it so. You're feelings aren't gonna change 2000 years of tradition.

And again no one idolize saints or Mary.

Now, I'm gonna go to Mass, which is a prayer to God. Me and the rest of the Parish are gonna thank God for what He's done, and ask us to do better. It's pretty sad isn't it? The Pope is a sinner, so the entire religion is condemned...

quote:Originally posted by prince charles:

Well that statement Was intentional, Live with it,Jesus's body lays in a grave,

Were his conciousness went I dont know.

And why the fuck did he bother,I ask myself

Where is his grave then cunto?

Don't bad mouth me, okay?

I'm just doing my job.