What is it exactly that makes you believe?

What if the gospels of Jesus are a total fabrication?

For example, what do the gospels say Jesus did in Nazareth? There was no Nazareth at that time, but noone knew that in 500 AD.

What if the gospels were written in 500 AD, from myths already popular in the region?

Well, there are some reasons to think the gospels are just another version of an old, old story:

Buddha

Buddha was born on December 25th of the virgin Maya, and his birth was attended by a star, wise men and angels singing heavenly songs. Was of royal lineage. Taught in the Temple at age 12. Performed miracles and wonders, healed the sick, fed 500 men from a "small basket of cakes". Was resurrected, as his coverings were unrolled from his body and his tomb was opened by supernatural powers. Ascended bodily to Nirvana or "heaven." Came to fulfill, not to destroy, the law. Is to return "in the latter days" to restore order and to judge the dead.

Egyptian God HORUS

He contributed the name of Jesus Christ. HE was called "the KRST," or "Anointed One," long before the Christians duplicated the story. He was born of the virgin Meri on December 25th in a cave/manger, with his birth being announced by a star in the East and attended by three wise men. He was a child teacher in the Temple and was baptized when he was 30 years old. He had 12 disciples. He performed miracles and raised one man, el-Azar-us, from the dead. He walked on water. He was transfigured on the Mount. He was crucified, buried in a tomb and resurrected. He was "the Fisher," and was associated with the Lamb, Lion and Fish.

Mithra

He was born on December 25th. He was considered a great traveling teacher and master. He had 12 disciples. He performed miracles. He was buried in a tomb. After three days he rose again. His resurrection was celebrated every year. He was called "the Good Shepherd.", "the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah." He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb. His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.

He had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected.

Krishna

Born of a Virgin. His father was a carpenter. His birth was attended by angels, wise men and shepherds, and he was presented with gold, frankincense and myrrh.

He was persecuted by a tyrant who ordered the slaughter of thousands of infants.

He was of royal descent. He was baptized in A river. He worked miracles and wonders.

He raised the dead and healed lepers, the deaf and the blind. Krishna used parables to teach the people about charity and love.

"He lived poor and he loved the poor."

He was transfigured in front of his disciples. In some traditions he died on a tree or was crucified between two thieves.

He rose from the dead and ascended to heaven.

He is called the "Shepherd God" and "Lord of lords," and was considered "the Redeemer, Firstborn, Sin Bearer, Liberator, Universal Word." He is the second person of the Trinity, and proclaimed himself the "Resurrection" and the "way to the Father." He was considered the "Beginning, the Middle and the End," ("Alpha and Omega"), as well as being omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent. His disciples bestowed upon him the title "Jezeus," meaning "pure essence." Earlier English spelling of Krishna was "Christna"! He is to return to do battle with the "Prince of Evil," who will desolate the earth.

OSIRIS-DIONYSUS

Another older god with many of the same similarities...

I'll end this here since this is getting long. Thanks.

Don't plagerise stuff.

http://www.atheistfellowship.com/aa3/03.html



http://www.sanfords.net/Pagan_Humor_and_Thoughts/origins_of_christianity.htm



http://www.entheology.org/edoto/anmviewer.asp?a=171&z=10



[This message has been edited by MasterPython (edited 09-16-2004).]

It looks like they all got it from the same articles. If you want, I can rewrite the whole thing.

Really, that doesn't answer my questions.

Thanks for this one-

Prometheus of Greece

Descended from heaven as God incarnate as man, to save mankind. He was crucified, suffered and rose from the dead. He was called the Logos or Word.



[This message has been edited by Viraljimmy (edited 09-16-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Viraljimmy:



Buddha

Buddha was born on December 25th of the virgin Maya, and his birth was attended by a star, wise men and angels singing heavenly songs. Was of royal lineage. Taught in the Temple at age 12. Performed miracles and wonders, healed the sick, fed 500 men from a "small basket of cakes". Was resurrected, as his coverings were unrolled from his body and his tomb was opened by supernatural powers. Ascended bodily to Nirvana or "heaven." Came to fulfill, not to destroy, the law. Is to return "in the latter days" to restore order and to judge the dead.



Buddha's birthday is traditionally celebrated on April 8, not Dec. 25, I have no idea where you got that date from. Also, many of the stories of Buddha are metaphorical, to be used as a teaching aid, not to be believed literally.

That's not like the stories I've heard of Krishna.

Krishna grew up with his mates as a cowherd boy. And he was God incarnate. Having a good old laugh with life as only a god could. Playing tricks on people. Creating monsters so that he could have fun killing them.

There's a cool story. Can't remember the exact details, but he fights with a many headed snake monster and, being god and all, he dances on the heads of the snake until the snake gives in and they make friends.

<A HREF="http://www.mahakali.com/k1/krishna_32.jpg">http://www.mahakali.com/k1/krishna_32.jpg" width="90" height="90 (http://www.mahakali.com/k1/krishna_32.jpg" width="90" height="90)</A>

quote:Originally posted by Social Junker:

Buddha's birthday is traditionally celebrated on April 8, not Dec. 25, I have no idea where you got that date from. Also, many of the stories of Buddha are metaphorical, to be used as a teaching aid, not to be believed literally.

Correction: it is celibrated on December 8th. how do I know this, you ask? because that's my birthday and I like looking up thigns on it. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif) John Lennon died on my birthday... http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

EDIT: Changed bold tags in quote to italics to reduce stupidity factor.

[This message has been edited by Duo (edited 09-17-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Duo:

Correction: it is celibrated on December 8th. how do I know this, you ask? because that's my birthday and I like looking up thigns on it. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif) John Lennon died on my birthday... http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

EDIT: Changed bold tags in quote to italics to reduce stupidity factor.

[This message has been edited by Duo (edited 09-17-2004).]

You are confused, I'm afraid. I'm a practicing Buddhist, so I think I know the date of Buddha's birthday. But I can see how a non-Buddhist would confuse the dates, since they both celebrate a "birth", in a sense.

In the Zen-Buddhist calendar:

April 8-Buddha's birthday (some Buddhists celebrate it on May 1, I believe, I am still a novice in Buddhism).

December 8- Day of Buddha's Enlightenment (also called Bodhi Day).

Add to that the 25th December date was a pagan Roman holiday appropriated by the newly institutionalized church.

QUOTE Originally posted by Viraljimmy:

For example, what do the gospels say Jesus did in Nazareth? There was no Nazareth at that time, but noone knew that in 500 AD.

Please show proof that Nazareth did not exist during the time of Jesus. And what difference does it make, whether anyone knew about this in 500 AD? The gospels are accepted by historians and theologians as written between the second half of the 1st century AD and the first half of the 2nd century AD.

What if the gospels were written in 500 AD, from myths already popular in the region?

Well, there are some reasons to think the gospels are just another version of an old, old story:

Again, can you show references as to where you got this information?

Buddha&lt;&lt;&lt;snipped&gt;&gt;&gt;



Mithra

He was born on December 25th. He was considered a great traveling teacher and master. He had 12 disciples. He performed miracles. He was buried in a tomb. After three days he rose again. His resurrection was celebrated every year. He was called "the Good Shepherd.", "the Way, the Truth and the Light, the Redeemer, the Savior, the Messiah." He was identified with both the Lion and the Lamb. His sacred day was Sunday, "the Lord's Day," hundreds of years before the appearance of Christ.

He had his principal festival on what was later to become Easter, at which time he was resurrected.

Krishna &lt;&lt;&lt;snipped&gt;&gt;&gt;

I'll end this here since this is getting long. Thanks.[/B] /QUOTE

I have many reference books, some of which are in my garage. Of the ones in my house, i have only been able to find a small amount of information, reguarding your claims, so it may take sometime to reseach this and give a better response to your post.

"December 25..Commemorates the Feast of the Nativity; Christ's Birth.

The biblical narrative of Jesus' birth gives no date for the event, though it more likely occurred in spring than in winter. St. Luke tells us that shepherds were "abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flocks by night"-- shepherds guarded their flocks day and night only at lambing time, in the spring; in winter, the animals were kept in corrals, unwatched.

The idea of celebrating the Birth on Dec 25 was 1st suggested early in the 4th century, a clever move on the part of Church fathers, who wished to eclipse the Dec 25 festivities of a rival pagan religion, Mithraism, that threatened the existence of Christianity.

It is important to note that for 2 centuries after Christ's birth, no one knew, and few people cared, exactly when he was born. Birthdays were unimportant; death days counted. Besides, Christ was divine and his natural birth was deliberately played down..."

"On Dec 25, pagan Romans, still in the majority, celebrated Natalis Solis Invicti, "Birthday of the Invincible Sun God," Mithras. The Mithras cult originated in Persia and rooted itself in the Roman world in the 1st century B.C. By the year 274 AD, Mithraism was so popular with the masses that Emperor Aurelian proclaimed it the official state religion. In the early 300's, the cult seriously threatened Christianity, and for a time, it was unclear which faith would emerge victorious...."

My reference was plagerized from "Sacred Origins of Profound Things"~~ Charles Panati

He just lists his references, but does not show which ones he uses- for which information.

I found alittle about Buddhism, but i will stop for now. Time permitting, i will try to look up more info from the books in the garage.



[This message has been edited by xtreem5150ahm (edited 09-17-2004).]

<A HREF="http://tinypic.com/5chme">http://tinypic.com/5chme" width="90" height="90 (http://tinypic.com/5chme" width="90" height="90)</A>

that story about krisna dancing on the snake monster's heads is awesome

quote:Originally posted by Social Junker:

You are confused, I'm afraid. I'm a practicing Buddhist, so I think I know the date of Buddha's birthday. But I can see how a non-Buddhist would confuse the dates, since they both celebrate a "birth", in a sense.

In the Zen-Buddhist calendar:

April 8-Buddha's birthday (some Buddhists celebrate it on May 1, I believe, I am still a novice in Buddhism).

December 8- Day of Buddha's Enlightenment (also called Bodhi Day).

That's my boy socia.

Many westerners confuse it with his real birthday because after his enlightenment he was "re-born".

It is called Bodhi day in english.

Saying Jesus is a copycat is probably going a little too far. Certainly he was influenced by foreign religions and clearly is false, but I wouldn't say he is a "copycat".

[This message has been edited by Rekkr (edited 09-18-2004).]

Why do you say he is tottaly false?

Read some of the stuff in the dead sea scrolls - it is painfully apparent that there is some great wisdom, that is attributed to Jesus.

Yes, I know he is an important theological character, and he may or may not have existed in person (which is debatable) but it is absurd to think that he was the son of god. Firstly, most of what is in the New Testament is totally different from the Old Testament. Examples:

In the Old Testament, there is no devil.

In the Old Testament, there is no hell.

In the Old Testament, only people who god favors can live with him in paradise.

quote:Originally posted by Rekkr:

Yes, I know he is an important theological character, and he may or may not have existed in person (which is debatable) but it is absurd to think that he was the son of god. Firstly, most of what is in the New Testament is totally different from the Old Testament. Examples:

In the Old Testament, there is no devil.

In the Old Testament, there is no hell.

In the Old Testament, only people who god favors can live with him in paradise.



There was devil, read Job.

There was Hell, it was called Sheol, which literally means grave,

(sheh-ole'); Noun Feminine, Strong #: 7585



sheol, underworld, grave, hell, pit

the underworld

Sheol - the OT designation for the abode of the dead

place of no return

without praise of God

wicked sent there for punishment

righteous not abandoned to it

of the place of exile (fig)

of extreme degradation in sin

Shachath (shakh'-ath); Noun Feminine, Strong #: 7845



pit, destruction, grave

pit (for catching lions)

pit (of Hell)

KJV Word Usage and Count

corruption 4

pit 14

destruction 2

ditch 2

grave 1



Sh@chiyth (shekh-eeth'); Noun Feminine, Strong #: 7825



pit

KJV Word Usage and Count

destruction 1

pit 1

There are a total of 12 different Hebrew words for "pit" in the OT, if you like i can go on. And if you want, i"ll post Bible references for each of them (that apply--since some will be a literal hole in the ground).

It also seems to me that somewhere in the OT, it was for told that God's Chosen People would reject Him and this would open it up to everyone...but i can not remember where, or who... it may be that i am recalling some commentator, that is probably the case, since i can not remember the passage. But if i'm right, that also refutes this difference between the OT and NT.