33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto ever man according as he had need.

Acts Chapter 4, 33-35

Solid proof

Communism and religion are alot alike. They look good on paper but get royaly screwed up when people try to put either into practice.

quote:Originally posted by MasterPython:

Communism and religion are alot alike. They look good on paper but get royaly screwed up when people try to put either into practice.

You know nothing about communism. I thought it was a good thing, that this Jesus fellow might just be alright.

I know exact what you mean jasper jones,and i agree, the camel and the needle and all that shit.

But mabie a better word to use would be jesus was a socialist or marxist(same thing I know) ,

I mean because of all that badmouthing of the word "communist" in recent years as a bad evil thing.

OH I forgot about stalin.

Conservative Yanks hate these sorts of threads, but you're very right socialism/communism in many ways reflects God's Kingdom and Jesus teachings SOOO much more than western market capitalism (aside from the atheistic and strongly modernic/utopian ambition).

*Marx was a fan of the primitive communism seen in the early church/NT.

* Theres some really good literature out there on this:

There was a book, now out of print called "The words of chairman Jesus"

Another book a mate gave me for my 18th (also out of print) was "The Socialist Sixth of the World". This was written about the Soviet Union in the 1930's by a British clergyman (in a very positive light)

"Christian Capitalism or Christian Socialism"

etc etc

Such a shame that Christianity has been hijacked by right wingers...

sort of like how the republican party has been hijacked by Right wing Christians. :P

...right-wing christian gun-nuts

Jesus was definitely an Anarcho-Communist. He spoke about disobeying Earthly Authority, calling no man master, and show no resistance to evil other than speech. Tolstoy would revive this idea of Christian Anarchism.

dude that was a song by reagan youth

quote:Originally posted by inquisitor_11:

...right-wing christian gun-nuts

So much for turning the other cheek, fill him full of lead instead.



[This message has been edited by dearestnight_falcon (edited 09-22-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Jasper Jones:

33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto ever man according as he had need.

Acts Chapter 4, 33-35

Solid proof

That's interesting stuff there. That is pure Marx. Holy shit, did Marx plagiarize the bible?

Yah maybe he might just have been. I dont understand when people get mad when others say jesus was a communist. In a perfect world everyone would have everything they needed. Jesus' idea of a perfect world might have been a communist one althougth humans are not perfect and thus it will always fail just like everyother society.

quote:Originally posted by MasterPython:

Communism and religion are alot alike. They look good on paper but get royaly screwed up when people try to put either into practice.

I think, as MasterPython was alluding to, Communism is a pretty good idea, when MAN doesn't get in the way.

Then you have to deal with greed, power trips, and ego's.

But, as Jesus himself said, "Give to Caeser what is Caesar's, and give to God what is God's."

Jesus and God have no need for government. That is a man made establishment, geared towards crowd control, and order.

If God thought politically, this world would be in DEEP trouble.

Luckily for us, God thinks in terms of the Creator to the Created.

He loves us, as any parent would love their child.

He governs us out of concern, and what in Hebrew is called "AGAPE", which is unconditional love.

You are making the err of humanizing God.

Though Jesus came to us in the form of a human, he was most definitely annointed, and did not think in the traditional sense that man does.

Also, you are taking this verse out of context (again).

When the Bible says that none of the Apostle's lacked, the author was speaking in spiritual terms.

Time and again those that asked to follow Christ were instructed to give up all their earthly possessions, and leave their families behind. Why ? Because NOTHING was to come before Jesus (God).

No faith was to be put into the things that man makes, only the things that God makes.

So, by stating that they had sold all their lands, and donated the profit's to Jesus and his ministry, they lacked nothing SPIRITUALLY.

This is proven even further by the mention of: "And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all."

Grace = spirit

The "men" here: And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto ever man according as he had need.

were the rest of the people in the crowd following Christ, outside of the 12 Apostles.

Basically, this says that in Charity, great happiness was achieved.

quote:Originally posted by Keltoiberserker:

Jesus was definitely an Anarcho-Communist. He spoke about disobeying Earthly Authority, calling no man master, and show no resistance to evil other than speech. Tolstoy would revive this idea of Christian Anarchism.

Really ? I recall Jesus telling his followers that they must follow the laws of the land, and the lawmakers, as NONE have been put into place without God's knowledge, or better yet, His permission.

Not because it is right, but because it serves a higher purpose.

NO man is a master, but rather a steward. (whether or not directly from god in his own mind)

And the "do not repay evil with evil" statement does NOT just apply to the physical.

We ought not to repay verbal abuse with verbal abuse, however hard it may be to resist. (I have a problem with that very thing)

quote:Originally posted by Lucky:

Yah maybe he might just have been. I dont understand when people get mad when others say jesus was a communist. In a perfect world everyone would have everything they needed. Jesus' idea of a perfect world might have been a communist one althougth humans are not perfect and thus it will always fail just like everyother society.

Because Russians and Chinese ran with the idea, and turned it into something oppressive.

When people hear the word "communist", they think of an enemy. At least in America, we do. (most of us, anyway)

But if you truly look at the fundamentals of Communism, it isn't bad at all.

It was just used inappropiately.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:



So, by stating that they had sold all their lands, and donated the profit's to Jesus and his ministry, they lacked nothing SPIRITUALLY.



It's this part which he is using to show a connection to communist thought:

"And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto ever man according as he had need"

The rest might have dealt with "spirituality", correct, but that part speaks of material objects, and their distribution according to need, which is exactly the mode of redistribution in communism.

But it is more likely that MAN created Communism, out of teachings learned from Jesus.

That doesn't make Jesus a Communist.

And I completely understood the statement.

I don't see how I made a mistake, since I didn't disagree.

(By the way, I am answering you, because you are staying on topic. See how well this works ?) http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

It goes against what you said, because you claimed he was misinterpreting the text. He wasn't. That he posted part of the text that may or may not talk of spirituality (which is really just your opinion), does not mean he misinterpreted anything since the other part does talk of material possessions.

For you to make that assertion you would have to show that every single part of the quotation dealt with spirituality. You haven't.

quote:But it is more likely that MAN created Communism, out of teachings learned from Jesus.

Sorry, but communism, primitive communism to be more specific, existed for hundreds of years before the Christ.

quote:That doesn't make Jesus a Communist.

It makes him have beliefs held by communists, which would align him with communist thought, hence 'communist' would be an appropriate label. Whether he did or did not call himself that, is another story.

quote:(By the way, I am answering you, because you are staying on topic. See how well this works ?)

I was on topic in the other discussion. You were claiming that Muslims do not support peace, while at the same time you yourself not supporting peace. I was pointing out that discrepancy, which is completely relevant as it shows your hypocrisy, and is a legitimate tactic with the hope of discrediting your argument. Moreover, I asked you if you wanted me to create a new thread dealing with what we were discussing, not to mention a thread was already moved to the Politics sections, and you ignored it. All of that, coupled with the fact that you yourself de-railed your own thread, proves that your lack of response has nothing to do with it being off-topic or not.

[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 09-24-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Really ? I recall Jesus telling his followers that they must follow the laws of the land, and the lawmakers, as NONE have been put into place without God's knowledge, or better yet, His permission.



Come on boys, lets go follow Kim Jung Il then! You're in his land, so get nuking!

what book's that from?

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Really ? I recall Jesus telling his followers that they must follow the laws of the land, and the lawmakers, as NONE have been put into place without God's knowledge, or better yet, His permission.

Not because it is right, but because it serves a higher purpose.

Anok doesn't have anything to do with the breaking or disobeying of laws, but only of disobeying the violent machinations of the state. Most "Anarchists" I've met are honest hospitable hard-working people.

There are many unjust laws in existence, oppression does not serve a higher purpose in any manner.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:



NO man is a master, but rather a steward. (whether or not directly from god in his own mind)

Non-hierachy

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:



And the "do not repay evil with evil" statement does NOT just apply to the physical.

This is completely in agree with basic Anok framework.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:



We ought not to repay verbal abuse with verbal abuse, however hard it may be to resist. (I have a problem with that very thing)

Resistance can be peaceful and non-abusive.

http://www.catholicworker.com/ah_anar.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_anarchism

[This message has been edited by Keltoiberserker (edited 09-29-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Keltoiberserker (edited 09-29-2004).]

No, Jesus was a nazi (http://jesusishitler.com/)