just wondering what you thought. and how would this concept play into the bible or against it..

Well, reality and the scientific method are all counter to scripture as well, but that doesn't stop them.

Change is the only true constant, so: yes. Yes it does. Can't you feel it? I do, or maybe that's just guinness.

[This message has been edited by WolfinSheepsClothing (edited 09-23-2004).]

Define "universe". Define "Evolve".

The universe does evolve.

1. The universe collapses. The universe is expanding, yet eventaully it will reach a level will gravity will take back over and pull the universe into itself. Dead star remain will merge into balck holes, which merge into one. Eventaully all the mass, and energy, will in one spot, very small. Then it will blow up. Making a new universe, completely different from our own.

2. The universe will just die. All stars will die. Black holes will them suck up all remaing matter, and themselves. Eventaully they merge into a super black hole. Yet matter pings out of it causing it to "rot" I guess. When it gone all thats left, is dark(no atoms, no photons) boundless place with strange subatomic particles everywhere. Matter is dead.

Lame. This whole thread is lame because there's no definition of what constitutes "the universe" is and there's no definition of what constitutes evolution in this case.

By bpr's logic, we can prove the theory of evolution by seeing what stuff dies. "Look, that rose is dead, wow that's evolution", "My grandma has cancer! Soon, she'll evolve!".

Or how about his first argument the universe collapses and expands, lots of insects go through stages of development where their entire physical body changes completely, is that evolution? No.

theBishop

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

By bpr's logic, we can prove the theory of evolution by seeing what stuff dies. "Look, that rose is dead, wow that's evolution", "My grandma has cancer! Soon, she'll evolve!".

Or how about his first argument the universe collapses and expands, lots of insects go through stages of development where their entire physical body changes completely, is that evolution? No.

theBishop

What I was trying to say is that the universe is evolving, changing that is. In fact those insects are evolving too, just you'd have to really study them to see any real large due to the amount of time the stuff takes.

And It happens that the universe will "die." It will still evolve. I suggest you go check out a book on it. Heres a pick about what I'm talking about.

<A HREF="http://home.cwru.edu/~sjr16/media/cosmos_history_dumbbell.jpg">http://home.cwru.edu/~sjr16/media/cosmos_history_dumbbell.jpg" width="90" height="90 (http://home.cwru.edu/~sjr16/media/cosmos_history_dumbbell.jpg" width="90" height="90)</A>

Possibly something that can be defined evolution happens, but making assumptions like that sounds really is stupid without proof.

That picture prooves my point. It's showing the stages of life of a universe.

If we are going to ask if the universe evolves, it's safe to say we are considering the universe a lifeform for this discussion.

Evolution doesn't take place during one lifeform's lifecycle, it gradually happens over the course of hundereds a lifecycles in a given species.

Unless you can proove that there are lots and lots of universes i think to say that the universe evolves is just "deep talk" and not really intelligent discussion.

theBishop

quote:Originally posted by bpr14:

1. The universe collapses. The universe is expanding, yet eventaully it will reach a level will gravity will take back over and pull the universe into itself.

Actually recent scientific studies indicate that the rate of expansion of the universe is too great for all the gravity in it to pull it back in a 'big crunch'. So current estimates are that it will just expand forever and ultimately become a cold dark absolute zero lifeless void..

Sorry, but I have to stand in the theist camp for this one. I have no idea what you're talking about when you say "evolution" of the universe, sure it changes, but it's not darwinian, is it? It doesn't change according to so-called "survival of the fittest".

quote:Originally posted by bpr14:

The universe does evolve.

1. The universe collapses. The universe is expanding, yet eventaully it will reach a level will gravity will take back over and pull the universe into itself. Dead star remain will merge into balck holes, which merge into one. Eventaully all the mass, and energy, will in one spot, very small. Then it will blow up. Making a new universe, completely different from our own.

2. The universe will just die. All stars will die. Black holes will them suck up all remaing matter, and themselves. Eventaully they merge into a super black hole. Yet matter pings out of it causing it to "rot" I guess. When it gone all thats left, is dark(no atoms, no photons) boundless place with strange subatomic particles everywhere. Matter is dead.

Both of those are unlikely, I was reading in physics world the other day about the possibility that neutrons react with a yet unknown particle that created the energy behind the continued and increasing rate of expansion in the universe.

And protons have a life span of about 10^33 years so by that time matter would start decaying.