So, after dinner this evening, my doorbell rang. I open the door, and standing there is a young woman, bible in hand, cross around the neck. This is a surprise to me, since there haven’t been any door-to-door converters in my neighborhood forever. I already know what’s coming, and I want to be polite, so I don’t say “no thank you” and shut the door.

Me: Hello, can I help you?

Her: I’m from (a church here in town), have you accepted Jesus Christ in your heart?

Me: No, but I have found religion.

Her: Oh, which one is that?

Me: Buddhism.

Her: Buddha is a false god, there is only one way to salvation, Jesus Christ.

At this point, I am already getting tired of this conversation, since I’ve had it about a million times, and sometimes talking to a die-hard Christian is like talking to a brick wall (I’m not saying that all Christians are like this, but the nature of their religion tends not to encourage open discussion). I am now looking to end this.

Me: I respect your opinion, but I do not agree with it.

Her: Can I come in and explain to you why you’re wrong in your beliefs?

This caught me off-guard, since usually these people are not so up-front in saying “you’re wrong.”

Me: Sure, only if I get a turn afterwards to explain to you why I disagree with you, since I am already familiar with Christ’s teachings.

Her: No, I wouldn’t be comfortable with that. I hope someday you will find Jesus and allow him into your heart.

As she turns to go, I say:

Me: Why should I listen to you if you’re unwilling to listen to me?

Her: Have a good evening, sir.



Now, despite my best efforts and controlling my emotions, she pissed me off. Why is discussion of another religion so taboo to Christians? I am sick of them treating me like a child, and calling me “uneducated” and accusing me of worshipping false gods.

All I really wanted was to have a free discussion of religion, because I am open to Christian ideas, in fact all religions, since I believe they can supplement my Buddhist faith. Why does it not work the other way around, why can Buddhist ideas not supplement to a person’s Christian faith?

Once a person refuses to listen to new ideas, their beliefs become dogma, useful only to themselves and people who think like them.

I could go into why I disagree with Christianity (really, all monotheistic religions, not just Christianity), but that’s for another post.

quote:Originally posted by Social Junker:

So, after dinner this evening, my doorbell rang. I open the door, and standing there is a young woman, bible in hand, cross around the neck. This is a surprise to me, since there haven’t been any door-to-door converters in my neighborhood forever. I already know what’s coming, and I want to be polite, so I don’t say “no thank you” and shut the door.

Me: Hello, can I help you?

Her: I’m from (a church here in town), have you accepted Jesus Christ in your heart?

Me: No, but I have found religion.

Her: Oh, which one is that?

Me: Buddhism.

Her: Buddha is a false god, there is only one way to salvation, Jesus Christ.

At this point, I am already getting tired of this conversation, since I’ve had it about a million times, and sometimes talking to a die-hard Christian is like talking to a brick wall (I’m not saying that all Christians are like this, but the nature of their religion tends not to encourage open discussion). I am now looking to end this.

Me: I respect your opinion, but I do not agree with it.

Her: Can I come in and explain to you why you’re wrong in your beliefs?

This caught me off-guard, since usually these people are not so up-front in saying “you’re wrong.”

Me: Sure, only if I get a turn afterwards to explain to you why I disagree with you, since I am already familiar with Christ’s teachings.

Her: No, I wouldn’t be comfortable with that. I hope someday you will find Jesus and allow him into your heart.

As she turns to go, I say:

Me: Why should I listen to you if you’re unwilling to listen to me?

Her: Have a good evening, sir.



Now, despite my best efforts and controlling my emotions, she pissed me off. Why is discussion of another religion so taboo to Christians? I am sick of them treating me like a child, and calling me “uneducated” and accusing me of worshipping false gods.

All I really wanted was to have a free discussion of religion, because I am open to Christian ideas, in fact all religions, since I believe they can supplement my Buddhist faith. Why does it not work the other way around, why can Buddhist ideas not supplement to a person’s Christian faith?

Once a person refuses to listen to new ideas, their beliefs become dogma, useful only to themselves and people who think like them.

I could go into why I disagree with Christianity (really, all monotheistic religions, not just Christianity), but that’s for another post.

__________________________________________________ __

They don't like questions. They have the answer.



btw: I like your style,I do the same.(unless I'm busy) Most people shoe them away, but I am impressed with people that walk it like they talk it, not withstanding they're wrong.

Yeah, sorry about that man. The problem is, like nearly all people, Christians don't do their homework (on any subject). I guarantee that woman didn't have even a cursory (such a great word) knowledge of buddhism or probably any other religion for that matter. That's why she's happy to tell you that you're beliefs are wrong, but doesn't want to hear what you believe.

I disagree with Buddhism myself being a christian, but i would've been happy to have a two way conversation with you about that had i been the one at your door. I appologize for yet another one-sided christian.

theBishop

I'm just like you on that. But the difference is, that, I am a Christian. But yet I very much enjoy those types of conversations.

Sorry for the single-mindness of her. She has her eyes set with tunnel-vision.

[This message has been edited by Armageddon (edited 09-23-2004).]

I woulda pulled the race card.

Unfortunately you couldn't.

And, I'm always sporting my buddha chain.

quote:Originally posted by aTribeCalledSean:

I woulda pulled the race card.

Unfortunately you couldn't.

And, I'm always sporting my buddha chain.

It's so boring being white, you rarely get to pull the race card... http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

You lucky bastard I wish she would come to my door/ No just kidding

she said buddha is a false god lol

Anyway I would have let her in my house and said Ill be back in a minute then I would have phoned up some authority and said "I have a madwoman in my house can you come and collect her I think she needs some psyciatric treatment.

only time someone approached me about it, i was at the mailbox and this 90+ year old guy drives up the street and passes me, then backs up and just says" do you read the bible?" not feeling like arguing for once i said yeah. He left..............

There are these 2 Jehovah's Witnesses that go around my area on bikes. I pulled out the old "Muslim" card but they didn't stop. They gave me a pamphlet or whatever.

Umm.... I don't know a lot about buddhism... but Buddha isn't actually a "god" in the sense that "Jehova", or even a pagan god is, is he?

I was more of the understanding that a "Buddha" is an enlightened one, but that when people talk about the person Buddha, they are talking about the original dude from india who left his palace in search of truth.

I might be totally wrong, but perhaps someone might find it interesting to know what a random person knows of buddhism.

quote:Originally posted by aTribeCalledSean:

They dont like questions. They believe they have the answer.

^^^

Couldn't have said it better myself. +1 strength for aTribeCalledSean.

quote:Originally posted by dearestnight_falcon:

Umm.... I don't know a lot about buddhism... but Buddha isn't actually a "god" in the sense that "Jehova", or even a pagan god is, is he?

I was more of the understanding that a "Buddha" is an enlightened one, but that when people talk about the person Buddha, they are talking about the original dude from india who left his palace in search of truth.

I might be totally wrong, but perhaps someone might find it interesting to know what a random person knows of buddhism.

You're essentially right. The Buddha rejected even the concept of Gods, though a current widespread "dumbed down" version of Buddhism reveres him as a God.

The problem i have with Buddhism is that it's one dude's philosophy. To me, it's like forming a religion out of Socrates' teachings. It's a really cool belief from a philosophical standpoint but it's just something one dude came up with.

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

The problem i have with Buddhism is that it's one dude's philosophy. To me, it's like forming a religion out of Socrates' teachings. It's a really cool belief from a philosophical standpoint but it's just something one dude came up with.

Kinda like how all of Christianity grew out of one mans teachings? Yes, there was something of a backdrop, but the New Testamant is radically different from the old testament, and thats why you're a christian, not a jew.

Sorry dude, it's more than that. Yes Jesus' teachings are radically different from the old testament, However, Jesus fulfills the prophecies of The Messiah of the Jewish faith. It's not like Jesus went out into the desert for those 40 days and just came out the son of god. Who he was from birth to death is exactly what the old testament said he would be.

Well, I'd agree with your reaction to her. She was obviously not stable enough in her own beliefs to have them questioned.

Perhaps she was insecure about whether or not she would be able to adequately withstand your point of view.

Sounds like she had a good heart, but not enough conviction, or understanding of the Christian faith.

I am sorry you had that experience.

quote:They don't like questions. They have the answer.

btw: I like your style,I do the same.(unless I'm busy) Most people shoe them away, but I am impressed with people that walk it like they talk it, not withstanding they're wrong.

That was quite the generalization there, Wolf.

I like questions just fine, as long as they presented with objectivity in mind.

You just painted a picture of an entire religion...stating that we ALL don't like to have debates. We all just want our side heard, and no one else's.

I don't think I have exhibited that mentality here...and if I have, it was unintentional, and certainly not because of the reasons that SHE was obviously not willing to debate.

There is a difference between believing that you are completely right, and not listening to someone else's point of view.

So, are you impressed with ME ? I walk the talk, and talk the walk. I suspect your answer will be "no", though now that I've said that who knows what you'll answer.

You don't appear to be impressed with ME walking the talk, and I can only conclude that this is because I am a Christian, and therefor blind to all other thoughts or beliefs regarding religion.

I believe your admiration is biased...and I am only saying this because of the way you have consistently responded to me in the past.

Correct me if I am wrong, and try not to answer with BS.

quote:Originally posted by Social Junker:

It's so boring being white, you rarely get to pull the race card... http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)

HAHAHHAHAHAHA !

True that...

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

The problem i have with Buddhism is that it's one dude's philosophy. To me, it's like forming a religion out of Socrates' teachings. It's a really cool belief from a philosophical standpoint but it's just something one dude came up with.

I agree...

The philosophy is outstanding. The religion is not.

quote:Originally posted by SurahAhriman:

Kinda like how all of Christianity grew out of one mans teachings? Yes, there was something of a backdrop, but the New Testamant is radically different from the old testament, and thats why you're a christian, not a jew.

No, that's why GENTILES can receive salvation now, not just JEWS.

That "backdrop" existed for thousands of years, was written down by almost 30 something different authors (I am only referring to the Old Testament here), all of whom were inspired by God.

Buddhism and Christianity are NOTHING alike, and for you to say so only shows your complete ignorance of Christianity (or Buddhism, or both).

Jesus didn't create God. Jesus didn't create Christianity. God did.

And God had been around for a long time (try ETERNITY) prior to Christ's human birth. He'd been working miracles, winning wars, and leading nations during that long period before Christ's physical existence.

There is absolutely NO comparison.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

I agree...

The philosophy is outstanding. The religion is not.

This is a misconception in the West, in my opinion. Buddhism is often portrayed as a philosophy, or a way of life (almost like a vegan diet) in the West. In reality, it is a religion that many people have turned to for comfort over the centuries, and has a developed view of the world.

But you're right, Digital, Buddhism does differ from Christianity at some "critical" points:

1. The concept of the "self": Christianity (and other world religions) believes in the idea of a "permanent self", a soul, basically that our personalities will survive death.

This is a comforting thought, but in Buddhism the idea of self is the main cause of suffering, and in order for suffering to end, the idea of self must be eliminated.

This can be a absolutely terrifying idea, at first, it was for me, because it goes against everything we have been taught. We are constantly trying to define who we "are", we think it terms of "me", "mine", of what "I'm" thinking, etc.

But in reality, the idea of "me" is an illusion, and holding onto this idea will always cause suffering, which is why I can never go back to Christianity or any other religion that holds the idea of a "permanent self". The sooner we realize that our bodies and minds are impermanent, the better.

But realizng the idea of "no-self" is not an easy task.

(This is getting too long, I'll post later)

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

The problem i have with Buddhism is that it's one dude's philosophy. To me, it's like forming a religion out of Socrates' teachings. It's a really cool belief from a philosophical standpoint but it's just something one dude came up with.

The Buddha did not claim to have discovered anything new, only to have rediscovered what has always been there and has been taught by countless Buddhas in the past, and what will be taught by countless Buddhas in the future.

So, one person did not come up with it.

You must remember that the historical Buddha, Gautama, is only the Buddha of this time period and of this world (there are countless worlds, thus countless buddhas), when Gautama's teachings have been lost to this world again, a new Buddha will appear and bring the teachings back.

If that's true then why isn't Buddhism as old as humanity itself? If Buddha is the enlightened one and there were lots of Buddah's before him (and after him) then why weren't the previous enlightened ones enlightened enough to spread the word?

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

If that's true then why isn't Buddhism as old as humanity itself?

Why did it take Jesus so long to show up?

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

If that's true then why isn't Buddhism as old as humanity itself? If Buddha is the enlightened one and there were lots of Buddah's before him (and after him) then why weren't the previous enlightened ones enlightened enough to spread the word?

To understand, you must know something of the Buddhist view of the universe.

(This will be the extremely simplified version)

The universe has no beginning or end, it will be created and destroyed countless times.

The length of time between Buddhas is long, it is said the next Buddha will arrive in five billion years, when the teachings of the previous Buddha have been lost because of ignorance.

Ignorance will always exist. Ignorance is defined not as being stupid, you can be extremely smart and still be ignorant in Buddhism. Ignorance is being unaware that your desires and the idea of self are the cause of all suffering.

Imagine ignorance as a blank skyline, all you can see is the sky. When a Buddha appears, he is a huge mountain that almost blocks out the sky, but not completely. Even a Buddha cannot completely rid the world of ignorance. Eventually this mountain is worn down by winds and rain, and ignorance is fully in the world again. People wil always been drawn to ignorance, because it is a life of pleasure and intoxication. Would you not be drawn to it? That is why another Buddha is needed, to bring the teachings back.

I am still a novice in Buddhism, so it is certain that I left something out, but that's the best I can explain it.

quote:Originally posted by Social Junker:

So, after dinner this evening...

...Her: Have a good evening, sir.

Now, despite my best efforts and controlling my emotions, she pissed me off. Why is discussion of another religion so taboo to Christians? I am sick of them treating me like a child, and calling me “uneducated” and accusing me of worshipping false gods.

I don't think it is so much a Christian "thing", as a human thing. And it is mostly caused from ignorance and fear.

The ignorance on matters of religion bears (usually) from 1. desire 2. laziness.

Fear, however, could stem from ignorance of own religion, ignorance of opposing religion (or denomination), weakness (or maybe,rather, self-percieved weakness) of faith, inexperience, being ill-prepared, and probably a ton of other reasons.

As far as 'Ill-prepared and inexperience', i wish the churches would stress to the people that they send out, that some people are: well informed, have difficult questions, will resist. Jehovah Witnesses seem to be the most prepared and usually go out in groups...these are usually the ones at my door. (I invite them in and discuss the topic with them...rather, used to, there havent been any here in a couple of years...but that is most likely because we have 3 dogs, not because i convinced them http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif) The conversations usually resemble a scriptural tennis match. My wife usually goes to visit her parents, because she knows "this could be awhile"). It's a shame, that churches dont train their canvassers better.

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

Sorry dude, it's more than that. Yes Jesus' teachings are radically different from the old testament, However, Jesus fulfills the prophecies of The Messiah of the Jewish faith. It's not like Jesus went out into the desert for those 40 days and just came out the son of god. Who he was from birth to death is exactly what the old testament said he would be.



If you think about it, are they radically different? I see His teachings as basically the same, just emphasised differently.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Well, I'd agree with your reaction to her. She was obviously not stable enough in her own beliefs to have them questioned.

Perhaps she was insecure about whether or not she would be able to adequately withstand your point of view.

Sounds like she had a good heart, but not enough conviction, or understanding of the Christian faith.

I am sorry you had that experience.

Dont be sorry. Don't all experiences matter toward growth?

No, I am merely sorry because she helped propel him even further toward the world's view of what Christians are like, which is a false view.

And I am sorry he didn't get the conversation he was obviously hungry for.

I am also sorry that he was robbed of the right to see both sides.

She obviously wasn't prepared, and ought not to be out, trying to convert people until she is stronger in her faith. Her heart is in the right place, but definitely not with enough conviction.

It's like going to the store with no source of payment for your groceries.

Just isn't going to work out for good.

quote:Originally posted by MasterPython:

Why did it take Jesus so long to show up?

That was the way God intended it to be.

The lineage had to be fulfilled, and each person lived as long as they did for a reason...

And how long THEY lived determined how far down the line Jesus would come along.

Whether you see it or not, everything that happens comes from a perfect design.

It's a puzzle, and each piece fits perfectly, and in it's own time.

quote:Originally posted by Social Junker:

This is a misconception in the West, in my opinion. Buddhism is often portrayed as a philosophy, or a way of life (almost like a vegan diet) in the West. In reality, it is a religion that many people have turned to for comfort over the centuries, and has a developed view of the world.

But you're right, Digital, Buddhism does differ from Christianity at some "critical" points:

1. The concept of the "self": Christianity (and other world religions) believes in the idea of a "permanent self", a soul, basically that our personalities will survive death.

This is a comforting thought, but in Buddhism the idea of self is the main cause of suffering, and in order for suffering to end, the idea of self must be eliminated.

This can be a absolutely terrifying idea, at first, it was for me, because it goes against everything we have been taught. We are constantly trying to define who we "are", we think it terms of "me", "mine", of what "I'm" thinking, etc.

But in reality, the idea of "me" is an illusion, and holding onto this idea will always cause suffering, which is why I can never go back to Christianity or any other religion that holds the idea of a "permanent self". The sooner we realize that our bodies and minds are impermanent, the better.

But realizng the idea of "no-self" is not an easy task.

(This is getting too long, I'll post later)

I don't agree...the PHILOSOPHY of Christianity is PERFECT...it is the religions created by man, derived from Christianity that are IMPERFECT.

The philosophy of Buddhism (and I am actually thinking more along the lines of Taoism, here), is very peaceful, and lends a great deal of harmony to one's psyche, done rightly.

But following the religion of Buddhism separates you from your Creator, God Almighty.

As far as "self" is concerned, you couldn't be more right, just from a different angle.

You said: "...in Buddhism the idea of self is the main cause of suffering, and in order for suffering to end, the idea of self must be eliminated."

This is the whole premise behind God's will for us...to deny self (i.e. flesh) is to become one with God. "We" get in the way of enlightenment, which comes from God.

The more we put ourselves first, the more we suffer, because the greater the distance between us and our Creator becomes.

You are wrong, however, in your interpretation of Christianity's view on "Permanent self", for the reason above, as well as for another:

Christianity does not call us to think of ourselves as "permanent". Our physical bodies are quite expendable, and once shed, our souls ascend into heaven.

That can be considered a second "self", though the soul is with us from the beginning of our lives.

That transformation, of sorts, does not allow for thinking of self as "permanent".

Our soul is NOT our personality. Personalities stem from the brain...the soul dictates conscience, and is a bridge from our physical mind, to our Heavenly Father.

This may seem like it is not so different than what you said, but I can assure you, it is drastically so.

If Buddhism teaches reincarnation, isn't that essentially a "permanent self", coming back to earth time and again ?

Where is the metamorphasis into a "new self", thus creating a "non-permanent self" ?

It is equally terrifying to look to God to do all things in your life. To give your "self" over to be used as a vessel for Him.

It is terrifying to believe in something you cannot see, touch, or feel.

In the case of Buddhism, you believe in "self", which is still tangible, thus less terrifying.

How can you be reincarnated, if there is no "self" to begin with ?

If there is no "self", what ARE you ?

"So, are you impressed with ME ? I walk the talk, and talk the walk. I suspect your answer will be "no", though now that I've said that who knows what you'll answer."

That's the thing about me. You don't know what my answer will be.

Impressed? No. Respect? Yes. I admire tenacity. I know how difficult it can be to go against everyone, like you do here. I'm American and I think all religions are wrong.(can you see the difficulty here?)

I also respect the fact that Mgruff hasn't corrected your spelling or grammar.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:



If Buddhism teaches reincarnation, isn't that essentially a "permanent self", coming back to earth time and again ?



Digi, the post I was going to type about the idea of "self" is too long for me to do tonight, and I'm tired, I think I'll be able to organize my ideas more effectively tomorrow. But I will address reincarnation:

A Buddhist monk once described reincarnation as the transferring of the flame from one candle to another. This acturately describes the Buddhist idea of reincarnation, energy is tranferred from one body to the next.

Everything that makes "me" me will not survive death, but my "energy will. I know nothing of my previous lives, because the "self" does not survive death.

Bah, I didn't even explain this correctly, I'm afraid, I have to sleep, tomorrow I will provide a more adequate answer.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:



You are wrong, however, in your interpretation of Christianity's view on "Permanent self", for the reason above, as well as for another:

Christianity does not call us to think of ourselves as "permanent". Our physical bodies are quite expendable, and once shed, our souls ascend into heaven.

That can be considered a second "self", though the soul is with us from the beginning of our lives.

That transformation, of sorts, does not allow for thinking of self as "permanent".

Our soul is NOT our personality. Personalities stem from the brain...the soul dictates conscience, and is a bridge from our physical mind, to our Heavenly Father.

This may seem like it is not so different than what you said, but I can assure you, it is drastically so.





Looking back on what I originally wrote about Christianity's beliefs, I realize that it was very vulnerable to misinterpretation, due to the way I phrased it, and due to the fact that I forgot that there is still much discussion among the various Christian churches about the definition of the soul.

So let me rephrase it:

Would it be fair to say, Digi, that Christianity (the majority, anyway) believes that a immortal part of you, called the soul, survives death, and that this soul is what makes you "you"?

Would it also be fair to say that your soul is unique to you, in other words, it has qualities that would allow it to be recognized only as "you"?

This is the definition that I took away from all my years of going to church and instruction in the Bible.

I'm curious as to your thoughts on this definition.

quote:



If Buddhism teaches reincarnation, isn't that essentially a "permanent self", coming back to earth time and again ?



How can you be reincarnated, if there is no "self" to begin with ?

If there is no "self", what ARE you ?

Buddhists believe that the body and mind disintegrate upon death, but what is "reborn" (Buddhists prefer the terms "re-becoming" or "rebirth" to the term "reincarnation", which implies that the same being is comig back again and again) is a topic of debate among Buddhists, but what is agreed upon is that there is no permanent consciousness that moves from life to life.

There are too many viewpoints to be discussed here, but I personally believe in the "conservation of energy", that energy cannot be destroyed, so it must be reborn.

Interesting point, there are Buddhists (mostly in the West) who posed the same question as you, "How can you be reincarnated, if there is no "self" to begin with?", and reject the idea of rebirth, saying there is nothing to be reborn (I am not one of them).

To answer your question, "If there is no "self", what ARE you?", I'll let the Buddha answer this one http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif) :

"It is the everlasting and unchanging rule of this world that everything (including "you") is created by a series of causes and conditions and everything disappears by the same rule; everything changes, nothing remains constant."

Basically, you are an accumulation of causes and conditions.

Holy fuck, I don't even need to post about buddhism anymore here, Social Junker is doing a fine job.

Looks like you took my advice and read some Thich man. He's the one with the "candle" parallel.

You are impressing me more and more. I was about to post the "soul" transfer (reincarnation) answer with a "conservation of energy" parallel. But you did that just a few more posts down. Seriously man, mad props. You show a very good understanding, especially as a white devil. (hhahaha Oh mighty pale one.)

I guess you covered just about everything I was gonna answer, and you did it pretty damn well.

Well, if anyone (digi or the likes) wants more clarification or if Social missed anything, just ask again. I think it would be fair to say that I have a better understanding, and a btter fundamental knowledge of the writings.



Ohh oh oh. One thing social didn't answer was whoever said something like, "I like the philosophy, but I don't like how it's just a whole religion based on one guys ideas".....

Here's the thing, you don't have to follow buddha's exact teachings, he was just trying to give a good formula, cause it worked for him. Some sutta for you all......

"Look to the moon, not my finger. My finger simply points the way, but do not let it overshadow the moon. And do not mistake it for the heavens"

quote:Originally posted by aTribeCalledSean:

Holy fuck, I don't even need to post about buddhism anymore here, Social Junker is doing a fine job.

Looks like you took my advice and read some Thich man. He's the one with the "candle" parallel.

You are impressing me more and more. I was about to post the "soul" transfer (reincarnation) answer with a "conservation of energy" parallel. But you did that just a few more posts down. Seriously man, mad props. You show a very good understanding, especially as a white devil. (hhahaha Oh mighty pale one.)

I guess you covered just about everything I was gonna answer, and you did it pretty damn well.

Well, if anyone (digi or the likes) wants more clarification or if Social missed anything, just ask again. I think it would be fair to say that I have a better understanding, and a btter fundamental knowledge of the writings.



Ohh oh oh. One thing social didn't answer was whoever said something like, "I like the philosophy, but I don't like how it's just a whole religion based on one guys ideas".....

Here's the thing, you don't have to follow buddha's exact teachings, he was just trying to give a good formula, cause it worked for him. Some sutta for you all......

"Look to the moon, not my finger. My finger simply points the way, but do not let it overshadow the moon. And do not mistake it for the heavens"

Thanks, Tribe, http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif) that means a lot coming from a fellow Buddhist.

Also, what sutta is that passage from?

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

That was the way God intended it to be.

I just realised there is no point in arguing with a christian. For whenever you ask a question they dont have an anwser to they write the above or something similar.

Wow, i expected a much more open mind from someone named "Agnostic". No i didn't.

quote:Why did it take Jesus so long to show up?

That's not a very good response anyway. He claimed that Buddah has always existed in some incarnation. Christians don't claim that Jesus has always been on earth in some form.

Regarding the exact timing of Christ's life, "it's god's plan" isn't an intellectually lazy answer in this case, it's the best possible answer. If you asked "Why did Jesus ride in on a donkey" and i said "it's god's plan" that would be lazy.

theBishop

ahh but being agnostic isnt a one way street like most religions because i dont no which is true or real i choose to block both out. thow it is fun to talk about them. Even if it is a bit hypocritical.