being around alot of protestant teens of different denominations in my younger years I realized how ignorant of everything they were, but the thing that shocked me the most was thier ignorance toward christianity. they did not even know that catholics and orthodox christians were part of the religion. I mean even the adults would say things like "we are going to talk to the catholics they have never heard of jesus" and things like that. as a convert to greek orthodoxy I now look back, and find great offense in that. how can they actually be that clueless? what is going on in thier heads? I mean a few centuries ago people were dying for catholacism or protestantism in brutal wars of religion. how is it that today people can not even know that they are in one or the other? anyone else have any experience with this? it just nauseates me!

Yeah... Protestants in the USA... eek...

Some of them have the most idiotic ideas about Wicca and Satanism too.

I honestly find it ridiculous that they can tell someone who HAS accepted Christ as their savior that they are going to hell.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

There is a family of bible-based, home-schooled, super christians that live next to me. The boy who is a little more than a year younger than me is constantly arguing with me. It's fun for me, cause he hasn't yet learned to argue the bigger debates like free will ramifications and whatnot.

Anyway, this numbnut thinks that Catholics aren't christians.

Well, Sean, I guess I am a numbnut then !

I agree with that 100%.

Being a Catholic does not automatically make you a Christian...accepting Christ as your savior does.

Being a Catholic means that you have decided to follow a religion, PARTLY based on Christ's teachings. (quite a bit of it is not, however)

There is a difference between having faith in God, and practicing MAN'S ordained ceremonies and rituals.

^^^

Yes yes yes, true true true. But if I may.... True Catholics believe....

in God, the Father almighty,

creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,

who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,

born of the Virgin Mary,

suffered under Pontius Pilate,

was crucified, died, and was buried;

he descended to the dead.

On the third day he rose again;

he ascended into heaven,

he is seated at the right hand of the Father,

and he will come again to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,

the holy catholic church,

the communion of saints,

the forgiveness of sins,

the resurrection of the body,

and the life everlasting. AMEN.

I argue with protestants quite often as to whether Catholicism is part of Christianity. I too am amazed at the ignorance. Catholics practice both the faith in God and Christ as saviour and the ceremonies of their religion. So long as the sect makes an honest attempt to follow Christ, I believe that is encompassed by Christianity, even if problems do exist in their methodology.

yes that is very true. no person in any church is really a christian untill they have accepted these things, and the christ as thier savior. I am saying that these people do not even know that the catholic church believes these things. they just think it is like judaism or islam or some other religion in it's own.

the story about the neighbors is funny. I used to know people just like that. the kids were homeschooled and they were minister's children. but for all that they seemed to know so little about thier own religion and it's past and order. I'm just saying they have an extreeme lack of perspective.

once the youth pastor wanted me to tell about other religions in junior high. I gave what I thought was a good unbiased lecture on many of the world's faiths. these kids had not even heard of any other religion except judaism! the youth pastor had no idea there was an orthodox church of any kind, and he said no catholics were christians. it was really messed up.

You are beginning to see why the protestants were kicked out of Europe (prosecuted)?

quote:Originally posted by aTribeCalledSean:

^^^

Yes yes yes, true true true. But if I may.... True Catholics believe....

in God, the Father almighty,

creator of heaven and earth.

I believe in Jesus Christ, God's only Son, our Lord,

who was conceived by the Holy Spirit,

born of the Virgin Mary,

suffered under Pontius Pilate,

was crucified, died, and was buried;

he descended to the dead.

On the third day he rose again;

he ascended into heaven,

he is seated at the right hand of the Father,

and he will come again to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,

the holy catholic church,

the communion of saints,

the forgiveness of sins,

the resurrection of the body,

and the life everlasting. AMEN.

Yes, but that makes them CHRISTIANS, not Catholics.

If a Catholic is "saved" (meaning believes in Christ as Savior), then they are to be considered a CHRISTIAN that practices Catholicism.

The two are NOT synonymous, as one is a faith, and the other is a religion. That's my point.

[This message has been edited by Digital_Savior (edited 09-30-2004).]

I think you guys are sort of dancing around the same point.

Just like being a "catholic" doesn't mean you're saved, calling yourself a "christian" doesn't save you either. Lots of "christians" are going to go to hell because they don't know why people go to heaven.

Any "christian" that refers to someone as a sinner and doesn't acknowledge that they themselves are sinful is probably not saved.

any "christian" that thinks they are going to heaven because they "are a good person" is almost certianly not saved.

Lots of Catholics are going to be saved. Many will not. but many Protestants will also not be saved.

thebishop

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Well, Sean, I guess I am a numbnut then !

I agree with that 100%.

Being a Catholic does not automatically make you a Christian...accepting Christ as your savior does.

Being a Catholic means that you have decided to follow a religion, PARTLY based on Christ's teachings. (quite a bit of it is not, however)

There is a difference between having faith in God, and practicing MAN'S ordained ceremonies and rituals.

Actually being a Catholic, does make you a Christian. Every Catholic accepts Christ as their savior. I'm sorry you aren't able to notice the fixation on Jesus, such as the Mass, a prayer to God, or maybe the giant crucifxes in the middle of the Church.

Also, not able to understand there's nothing wrong with having rituals. Just because you don't like it? And I'm sorry your faith is religion. And your life is full or rituals.

Look at Judiasm back before Christ. God-ordained Judiasm. No rituals in that huh? Did God change his mind about rituals?

quote:Originally posted by freaker:

being around alot of protestant teens of different denominations in my younger years I realized how ignorant of everything they were, but the thing that shocked me the most was thier ignorance toward christianity. they did not even know that catholics and orthodox christians were part of the religion. I mean even the adults would say things like "we are going to talk to the catholics they have never heard of jesus" and things like that. as a convert to greek orthodoxy I now look back, and find great offense in that. how can they actually be that clueless? what is going on in thier heads? I mean a few centuries ago people were dying for catholacism or protestantism in brutal wars of religion. how is it that today people can not even know that they are in one or the other? anyone else have any experience with this? it just nauseates me!



The same was true where i grew up, except it was Catholics that thought protestants were not Christian. I was even told that "lutherans worship dirty socks" lol

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

[B]Well, Sean, I guess I am a numbnut then !

Probably, if you truly think the Roman Catholics aren't Christians.

They faced lions, what does your cult do? Take up serpents and speak in tongues?

You just don't like Catholics because they're not fundamentalist.

And that is why they are some of the bearable x-tians, IMHO.

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:



The same was true where i grew up, except it was Catholics that thought protestants were not Christian. I was even told that "lutherans worship dirty socks" lol

Hahaha.

That actually reminds me of something.

My father used to live in Broken Hill (A mining town in western New South Wales - Australia).

There, there were two main ways to get a job in the mine - be a catholic, or be a freemason.

Zman: it's complicated. I believe Catholics believe that faith in christ AND doing good deeds is what saves you. But there's wierd stuff. Like if someone dies with sin a priest can pray for the person to go to heaven. That's totally unbiblical. I do think the Catholic church is a christian church, but It's really up to the individual cause the church itself doesn't really hammer home the importance of Jesus.

Yes, of course the Church hammers the importance of Jesus.

I don't see what's wrong with praying for someone that died with sin. It's like praying with someone living with sin. The priest doesn't put a spell on him and make him go to heaven. He's just praying.

I would actually have to agree with Digital here, depending on what we define "Christian" as.

If by "Christian" you mean someone who follows the word of the Christ, as humanly possible, then they are not. If by "Christian" you mean anyone who accepts the Christ as their savior, then they are.

A Roman Catholic which believes in the Pope, his position, and/or the wealth the vatican posses, is cleary not following in the word of the Christ. The very title of the Pope (Which is not "Pope"!) goes against the humility of the teachings of the Christ.

I think the zman makes the best point as to what I was looking at. the protestants in the area have talks about catholics like they are some kind of wooping hollering pagans because they have rituals. the orthodox church is one of the most ritual centered churches in the world. it is the only church that has ever experienced schisms that were purely liturgical as an example. services can last up to seven hours in some places. I look at protestant churches though, and they scare me. some of those pentacostals and southeren baptists screaming and convulsing on the floor with snakes, and speaking in tounges etc. I will take liturgical christianity over biblical protestantism any day.

rituals are something I find important. It may just be me, but I look back at a childhood in a protestant church,and find it really lacking something.

The problem with it is that it's totally unbiblical, and actually contra-biblical.

And yes, they do believe that someone who dies unsaved can be prayed for and go to heaven. This stands in direct contradiction to Jesus' "I am the way, the truth, and the light, the only way to the father is through me". (John 14:6).

I don't have a problem with the catholic church, i don't think they are pagans. I do think that if someone who is catholic goes ONLY by what they learn in church and doesn't read the bible to see what it actually says, they are probably not saved. But a catholic person can definitely be saved so long as they believe that Jesus is the way to heaven, and not rosaries and hail marys.

theBishop

[/b][/QUOTE]

Actually being a Catholic, does make you a Christian. Every Catholic accepts Christ as their savior. I'm sorry you aren't able to notice the fixation on Jesus, such as the Mass, a prayer to God, or maybe the giant crucifxes in the middle of the Church.

Also, not able to understand there's nothing wrong with having rituals. Just because you don't like it? And I'm sorry your faith is religion. And your life is full or rituals.

Look at Judiasm back before Christ. God-ordained Judiasm. No rituals in that huh? Did God change his mind about rituals?[/B][/QUOTE]

Accepting Christ as your saviour is a personal choice. Just because someone calls themselves christian or catholic does not mean they have made this choice. Just because someone participates in a ritual does not mean they have received the gift of salvation. Being saved represents a turning from sin. Being saved is active pursuit of righteousness in light of the fact that you are a hopeless sinner.

[This message has been edited by Vindicatus (edited 10-01-2004).]