quote:Originally Posted By theBishop:

That's a pretty good test: if god exists, this thread will be closed.

How much more "objective" can you get? And God smote finkstar's thread with one mighty keystroke... I mean, get real.

I'm not saying that God doesn't exist, my point is it's a matter of faith that cannot be quantified. You cannot "prove it" to anybody. It's got to be experienced on a gut-level; You can only know for yourself: your sprituality may or may not work for me, and vice-versa.

I'm amazed and annoyed that seemingly intelligent people keep returning to stock, cut-and-dry arguments that refuse to acknowledge any data but their own closed system. It's a big turn-off for those who are genuinely seeking.

Here's a simplified example:

"God exists, and Jesus is my savior because it says so in the bible. How do I know? Because, silly! The bible was divinely inspired! Whaddaya mean why do I think that? It says so right here in the bible, therefore God must exist and Jesus must be my savior."

To simplify further, how about this:

This sentence was divinely inspired.

It says so right here.^^^ Can't you read?

Who are you to question the WORD?

Here's a good test: If God exists, I'll get flamed for this.

I'm saying God doesn't exist. I could make you believe what I'm saying, but I really can't be arsed to do that.

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

I'm saying God doesn't exist. I could make you believe what I'm saying, but I really can't be arsed to do that.

OK...you got my curiousity... how can you make me believe that God does not exist??

dude, he basically said don't bother to ask.

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

OK...you got my curiousity... how can you make me believe that God does not exist??

this guy

Uhhh.... you know that thebishop was just screwing round with the idiot noob...

you do know that don't you???

FLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAMEFLAME FLAME FLAME FLAME

GOD LIVES!!!!!!

If God exists, I'll never post here again.



Too late, I already posted.

Sorry kids, we can all go home now, God is a hoax.

[This message has been edited by WolfinSheepsClothing (edited 10-01-2004).]

I agree with your post, Helmsman; belief in most strains of divine phenomena can only be successfully rationalised through personal epiphany or 'gut-feeling'. This is why, although I believe in God, I choose to refrain from most discussion on the subject and instead advocate agnosticism as the most logical stance to operate from (Namely because a lot of phenomena exists (Devil Valley in America, springs to mind), that science cannot even begin to explain).

People need to realise the difference between faith in God and 'knowing that God exists', from a scientifically objective standpoint (Which ain't gonna happen, lest God's voice booms across the sky 'Believe, heathen whores')... which would make the whole notion of faith unnecessary.

[This message has been edited by Durell (edited 10-02-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

OK...you got my curiousity... how can you make me believe that God does not exist??

If I lock you up in my basement and feedfuck you the fact that God doesn't exist for a few months/years, and do the same to your family/children/whatever, then there is no God. Simple like that. No faith can hold up against the power of pain and suffering. You just need to squeeze hard enough and God shoots straight out of you (either orally or anally, depending on where you squeeze). This however doesn't work on masses, it just creates a stupid revolution.

The 2nd way to do it, is just make you a whore. Simple, if I give you a life that is better than what "God" can give you, you'll be my whore. Look at what Capitalism has done with religion. I don't know whether you've noticed this or not, but religions are dying. Either that or they're changing appearance into a more spiritual thing, or basically just into something more modern. People don't need a "God" anymore.

And when man has something he doesn't need, he gets rid of it. (http://www.snoopy.is-a-geek.net/girls/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1090352713&archive=&start_from=&ucat=5&)

quote:you know that thebishop was just screwing round with the idiot noob

Seriously, this thread is idiotic.

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

If I lock you up in my basement and feedfuck you the fact that God doesn't exist for a few months/years, and do the same to your family/children/whatever, then there is no God. Simple like that. No faith can hold up against the power of pain and suffering. You just need to squeeze hard enough and God shoots straight out of you (either orally or anally, depending on where you squeeze). This however doesn't work on masses, it just creates a stupid revolution.

Hmmm.... I wonder how Sen. John Carey (POW of Viet Nam conflict) would view this basement-squeeze idea of yours. In his book "When Hell was in Session", he attributed his

survival to his faith in God. Read the book..very interesting..i would say entertaining, but that would be morbid.

Yeah, i read part of that book too. It was quite the opposite of what Snoopy proposes.

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

If I lock you up in my basement and feedfuck you the fact that God doesn't exist for a few months/years, and do the same to your family/children/whatever, then there is no God. Simple like that. No faith can hold up against the power of pain and suffering. You just need to squeeze hard enough and God shoots straight out of you (either orally or anally, depending on where you squeeze). This however doesn't work on masses, it just creates a stupid revolution.



Thats an interesting idea... but you know what else is interesting?

When I was doing my recruit course in the Australian army (choco), you spend two full days with the Padres. When I went through, the length of the course had been recently compressed from 13 weeks to 7, and this was one of the few things that hadn't been either chopped or condensced. Why?

The experience of long term PWs (or POWs depending on where you come from) in re-education camps in Vietnam etc. showed that those who had a strong belief structure were far more resistant to forced indoctrination tha those who didn't.

Then there is also the standing testimoney of martyrs (and this is not exclusive to xians). Particularly under alot of the Totalitarian regimes that communism spawned (Vietnam, NK, SWAPO-type Africans, China in the old days), there are plenty of accounts of peoples beliefs/ faiths enduring under pain, under suffering, under indoctrination.

Were not just talking about humilation and mild mind fucks abu grahib style:

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGEUR610072000

http://www.amnesty.org/results/is/eng?queryType=0&searchIn=0&query=religious+persecution&start=1&num=10&max=25

he he, this one is golden (the power of google)

http://www.cat.pdx.edu/~chuff/christian-torture/christian-torture.html

quote:Originally posted by inquisitor_11:

Thats an interesting idea... but you know what else is interesting?

Were not just talking about humilation and mild mind fucks abu grahib style:

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGEUR610072000

http://www.amnesty.org/results/is/eng?queryType=0&searchIn=0&que ry=religious+persecution&start=1&num=10&max=25 (http://www.amnesty.org/results/is/eng?queryType=0&searchIn=0&query=religious+persecution&start=1&num=10&max=25)

he he, this one is golden (the power of google)

http://www.cat.pdx.edu/~chuff/christian-torture/christian-torture.html

Hmmm...Username= inquisitor_11...posting methods of turture

remind me to NOT piss you off...JK

the sites were somewhat interesting though

Everyone has a breaking point. No matter how stubborn or stupid they are. Make them lose hope.

Torture? Seperation? Mind Fucks? Threat of death? Threats on others? Painful deaths?

People have time and again out done their oppressors.

quote:Originally posted by Snoopy:

Everyone has a breaking point. No matter how stubborn or stupid they are. Make them lose hope.



Some say the best way to survive torture is to abandon hope and resign oneself to death.

Don't think, for a second that will is not the most powerfull weapon.Remember the Buddhist monk that lit himself on fire as a protest to vietnam? That is an example of will. It's true, most people will break,but there are some that will never break, that's why they need to be shot.



You think bin laden would renounce Islam, if we tortured him enough?

I don't.

quote:Originally posted by dearestnight_falcon:

Uhhh.... you know that thebishop was just screwing round with the idiot noob...

you do know that don't you???

Yeah, I know. But theBishop's post directed toward finkstar was not my point, just a vehicle for it.

quote:Originally posted by theBishop: Seriously, this thread is idiotic.

What brings you to this conclusion?

Personally i reckon that Bin Laden wouldn't be that much of a hard case, in terms of being a muslim. I'd see him as being fairly more likely to renounce his Islam.

His hatred for the US and the west though.... thats another story.