A couple of minutes ago somone said hi to me, but I didn't recognise him so I asked his name. He told me, but I forgot, then he asked if he had seen me at church before. When I said I was an atheist he didn't know what it was, then visibly cringed when I told him. Then he told me about god, how he has a desteny, and how he will go to heaven when he dies. I didn't laugh out loud but it was a close thing. He then told me I should go to church and let the minister prove god evists...with quotes from the bible. I was trying my hardest not to laugh and to keep an open mind, but this guy was obviousily raised in a hardcore christian family, he didn't even acknoledge the possibility that I might be right. I think that just hearing that atheist's werent all imagenary might have seriousily rattled his faith.

So. You had an interaction who has a different set of beliefs than you do.

It's funny that you mock him because he doesn't share the notion that you could be right, but in return you look down upon him simply because he believes in God and you don't. Irony in it's purest form.

These posts are a dime a dozen. Yes, the average christian is not the best person to convince you about Jesus, even though they are indoctrinated to do just that.

However, the average Atheist is not really capable of making a coherant case against God. SOOO many atheists are that way because their parents made them go to church against their will.

And both groups are equally as openminded.

Bygones.

theBishop

So I had an idea just now.

What if I decided to make about 1,273 new religions, all with completely different beliefs, and soon enough (I'll buy a few churches, put up some advertisements) I'll have a ton of followers, but then, like there will be so many different religions that people will constantly fight and argue. Yes, at first at first there will be many many deaths, but then AFTERWARDS everyone will get so confused that they won't know what to believe and then they'll drop religion altogether and live in an age of peace, love, and lots of marijuana smoking.

quote:Peace love and marijuana smokeing

yeah, that sounds like the intellectually suprior world i've always wanted to live in.

It's a fucking huge disappointment when Atheists/Agnostics act like religion is such a cancer when the world people like Fuck propose is totally without value.

theBishop

Fuck:

"AFTERWARDS everyone will get so confused that they won't know what to believe and then they'll drop religion altogether and live in an age of peace, love, and lots of marijuana smoking."

Yes, becuase every war in the history of mankind is due to religion... none of that other stuff like land, wealth, or power. Moron.

Bishop:

"It's a fucking huge disappointment when Atheists/Agnostics act like religion is such a cancer when the world people like Fuck propose is totally without value."

We all know better than to listen to the political and social ideologies of the influential 13 year old newbie atheists/anarchists.

Though I can't say that I agree with including agnostics in this category. A true agnostic realizes just how clueless they are as to the true nature of the universe. Anyone that claims their own agnosticism, yet openly criticizes other's beliefs in an intellectually superior fashion is in no way an agnostic.

Haha, you're the moron.

Take a joke.

Your intellectually superior world sounds like it sucks.

I never said religion was the cause of all war, although it's certainly the cause of much confusion about the universe. And by the way I really find it hard to take anything in this forum seriously since I experienced deeper states in meditation, this place is like a joke to me, so are most of these posts.

Atheists and Christians, like two sides of the same coin. The same confusion, the same ignorance and misunderstanding.

quote:Atheists and Christians, like two sides of the same coin. The same confusion, the same ignorance and misunderstanding.

Hold thy tongue, bitch. Everyone from atheists to agnostics to theists are in the grasps of the same ignorance, confusion, and misunderstanding. Simply put, absolutely any opinion on the spiritual world is based on nothing tangible or provable. With nothing to go on, there are those who are ultimately incapable of putting faith into the issue; some who can put faith into it, but are unsure; some who can put faith into it, but do not care; and some who cannot live without faith in the issue. Where we fall on the scale is determined entirely by the importance our mind weights a God with, and whether or not our mind can put faith into insubstantiated claims the mind understands as critical.

Fucking think before you accuse two small portions of the populace of afflictions the entire populace suffers.

I love you Hex.

OK...i've been meaning to ask this question for a while: HOW CAN YOU TRUST SOMETHING YOU SEE WHILE YOUR HIGH/TWEAKED/STONED/WASTED/TRIPPING??!?!?!

I'll probably get flamed for this, but seriously. When someone tells me that they achived some higher conscieceness when they were fucked up on some chemical, not only do i lose respect for them as a person, i lose a shitload of respect for them as an intellectual.

This is not a direct attack on "Fuck" because he didn't say that he "experienced deeper states in meditation" which he was fucked up, although i suspect it to be the case.

Hex was right on about us all being in the grasps of the same ignorance. For you to say that religion is "certainly the cause of much confusion about the universe", you're way off base. I have my beliefs on the universe, and i'm sure you have fairly different versions, which are both backed up by the same amount of proof. Even though based on your posts i feel confident that i've done a bit more searching in what the universe is about.

theBishop

I've said before many times that chemicals have made me FEEL enlightened and more aware...but damn man, I'm proud to say I'm not one of the people who runs on that feeling and trusts it as accurate. To think an afflicted mind could properly interpret what happens to it is pure foolishness. I agree with you on that 100% Bishop.

I agree 110%.

Its demeaning to any spiritually inclined person when some stoner starts claiming that they achieved union with the universe from smoking a bowl.

Man, this one time. I was smoking this joint dude. You know, just weed and shit dude. Yeah man, I totally spoke to god. I was like "HEY DUDE!". And god was like, "YO MAN!". Then, he like, totally told me the secrets of the universe....

dude.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

So. You had an interaction who has a different set of beliefs than you do.

It's funny that you mock him because he doesn't share the notion that you could be right, but in return you look down upon him simply because he believes in God and you don't. Irony in it's purest form.

As for the mocking him, yes, because closeminded people are funny. As for looking down on him, no, I just was disgusted by how he was raised and how openly closeminded he was. I arrived at atheism after looking at all of the theological crap everyone I know spews, realizing that all the conclusions were drawn from no evidense whatsoever(I don't consider somone elses ideas to be any more credable than mine), and with no evidense to support a god I stopped beleving.(yes, I was once a christian, or raised as one, or whatever, but I have gone to church only a handfull of times).

And for the bishop saying your average atheist cannot make a decent argument about the non-existance of god, I am the only atheist in the crappy redneck town I live in, I get plenty of practice and can supply you with all the religious paradoxes you want.(which all can probabily be counterd by the bible, which takes both sides of damn near everything.) And s for religion being a cancer, well, it is contagoius, causes otherwise sane people to act stupid, enter arguments when they really don't know what they are talking about, and promotes willful ignorance about many subjects.

And finally, Angonism is not a sound theological posision because if there is a god, you go to hell, and if there isn't, you will have lived your life in doubt and fear for no reason(or not, you might live your life following some beleif's ethics or live the life of an atheist, and never reach the same conclusion I did.)

quote:Originally posted by Duck:

A couple of minutes ago somone said hi to me, but I didn't recognise him so I asked his name. He told me, but I forgot, then he asked if he had seen me at church before. When I said I was an atheist he didn't know what it was, then visibly cringed when I told him. Then he told me about god, how he has a desteny, and how he will go to heaven when he dies. I didn't laugh out loud but it was a close thing. He then told me I should go to church and let the minister prove god evists...with quotes from the bible. I was trying my hardest not to laugh and to keep an open mind, but this guy was obviousily raised in a hardcore christian family, he didn't even acknoledge the possibility that I might be right. I think that just hearing that atheist's werent all imagenary might have seriousily rattled his faith.

THAT BASTARD!

my first post is going to have been my most pointless hehehe



[This message has been edited by PowerToTheMonkey (edited 10-07-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:



It's funny that you mock him because he doesn't share the notion that you could be right, but in return you look down upon him simply because he believes in God and you don't. Irony in it's purest form.

No, he put him down because the guy was trying to impress his beliefs upon him, not just because they had different beliefs.

quote:Originally posted by dearestnight_falcon:

I agree 110%.

Its demeaning to any spiritually inclined person when some stoner starts claiming that they achieved union with the universe from smoking a bowl.

And its demeaning to the stoner that you dismiss his beliefs because of how he came to them. How can you say someones beliefs are more credible because they came to them without substance? Anyone elses beliefs have as little evidence as mine do, but because mine evolved to a higher point while on hallucinogens(natural in the environment mind you, I'm refering to HBWR seeds) they can't be the right one? If God put it on them planet, then why could he not have intended for them to help us understand. People take man-made drugs to help them focus, and understand man-made things like math and science. Why can't they take drugs put on the planet by God to help them understand things involving God? In the example of the man-made things, they generally would start out with a slight understanding of the subject, but can't focus on it enough to gain a better understanding. Same thing with having a spiritual experience on a drug put here by God. Most people have a few vague ideas bouncing around in there head, they take the drug, and it helps them focus and bring it all together.

Now I'm not asking you to accept my beliefs, not everyone has to believe the same things. All I want is for you to not dismiss them simply because a drug assisted in their evolution.

On another note, I won't dismiss most religions because no one can really know for sure till they die, but certain religions I will, not because I don't agree, but because they are contradictory. For instance the Roman Catholics have many practices which go against what it says in the King James bible, such as praying to saints, or even the existence of saints. I dismiss their religion not because of their beliefs, but because they contradict themselves. If they rewrote the bible to create a holy book which includes these things then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

There, I'm done ranting now.

I too have come up with amazing ideas on drugs. Weed not so much, but mostly mushrooms and acid. I don't dismiss them, but I do not value them as much.

If I can remember the idea well enough to formulate it in a sober mind, then I put real value in it.

I agree with thebishop on pretty much everything he said here in his posts and just wanted to say that,

anyway

It is really funny how mosts athiests try to sound really intelligent and all knowing, but this guy makes about one thousand grammatical errors in your post.

Also, if YOU were really open minded you wouldnt get angry at someone for believing in God. You would accept their opinion as their own and you would keep yours. Its not that hard of a concept to grasp.

quote:Originally posted by Duck:

As for the mocking him, yes, because closeminded people are funny. As for looking down on him, no, I just was disgusted by how he was raised and how openly closeminded he was. I arrived at atheism after looking at all of the theological crap everyone I know spews, realizing that all the conclusions were drawn from no evidense whatsoever(I don't consider somone elses ideas to be any more credable than mine), and with no evidense to support a god I stopped beleving.(yes, I was once a christian, or raised as one, or whatever, but I have gone to church only a handfull of times).



You didn'y say that you look down on him, but it was pretty obvious in your post that you feel a sence of intellectual superiority over those people who believe in God. You could mock anyone's beliefs in god for lack of evidence, but no athiest can prove his or her case either.

quote:Originally posted by Elfer-:

No, he put him down because the guy was trying to impress his beliefs upon him, not just because they had different beliefs.

There is explaining and defending your beliefs and why you think that your beliefs are best, and then there is trying to enforce your beliefs on others.

From the way his first post sounded, the christian sounded more like the former rather than the latter.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

You didn'y say that you look down on him, but it was pretty obvious in your post that you feel a sence of intellectual superiority over those people who believe in God. You could mock anyone's beliefs in god for lack of evidence, but no athiest can prove his or her case either.

A feeling of intellectual superiority over somone who mindlessly follows the church, and has never considerd(or even heard of) atheism? absolutely. Look down on him? You colud see it that way, I suppose. But as my assumption that there is no god is based on evidense(I have never seen him, or anything that can only be explained by him), I assume that he does not exist. Religious people just take it on faith that he does and that he is a kind, caring god.(from which I assume they have never read the book of relevations). I cannot prove my case, but I can defend it very well, and defend it in logical ways.

And to gangstafied, Grammatical errors are always pointed out by somone who wants an excuse to post and cannot come up with a decent idea, and at no point in the conversation did I get angry. Also, keeping your opinion and sticking to it no matter what is not keeping an open mind. Had he blown open my idea and shown me proof that there is a god, I would have beleved, but as it is all he did was come close to making me laugh.

And once again to napoleon, read my first post again. I admitted to being an atheist, and didn't say another word the whole conversation. I didn't attack his beleifs(at least not on purpose, I guess admitting my beleifs could be considerd an attack, but I really don't.) The title of the thread says it all:"they tried to convert me".

WarKrisMagic, you make some good points about the validity of drug use.

But i disagree with them.

Different drugs have different purposes and potency. Just like you wouldn't drink beer to drive a car more effectively, i think its a little insane to take a hallucinagen to philosophize.

quote:Originally posted by Duck:

A feeling of intellectual superiority over somone who mindlessly follows the church, and has never considerd(or even heard of) atheism? absolutely. Look down on him? You colud see it that way, I suppose. But as my assumption that there is no god is based on evidense(I have never seen him, or anything that can only be explained by him), I assume that he does not exist. Religious people just take it on faith that he does and that he is a kind, caring god.(from which I assume they have never read the book of relevations). I cannot prove my case, but I can defend it very well, and defend it in logical ways.



I would love to hear your reasons on why god doesn't exist(I'm not even talking about the christian god, I just mean a god in general, so don't try using any bible bullshit).

You've never seen god, correct? Have you ever seen an atom, an electron, the bottom of the ocean? I'm guessing no is the answer, but you believe that all these must exist, so why is it that christians and catholics are stupid for believing in something that they cannot see, even though you believe in countless things that you have never/cannot see?

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

WarKrisMagic, you make some good points about the validity of drug use.

But i disagree with them.

Different drugs have different purposes and potency. Just like you wouldn't drink beer to drive a car more effectively, i think its a little insane to take a hallucinagen to philosophize.

Thanks for that. You I believe just proved a major point related to this thread. That you don't agree with my beliefs, and yet because I was able to defend them in an intelligent, and not condenscending manner, you respect them.

And as far as the not taking a hallucinogen to philosophize theres some things that I'm going to restate, because I'm not sure if your just disagreeing, or disagreeing and not understanding what I meant 'cause I'm a crappy explainer.

You may have lost in the middle of my rant that I said most people who have some sort of religious experience induced by a drug already had the ideas floating around in their head and just hadn't quite connected them. For a specific example I'll give my own case: I had read a lot about John Keel's theory of ultra terrestrials or UTs. Click here (http://www.donzeigler.com/html/who_is_john_keel_.html) for a breif overview of what these are. Now reading about these UTs prompted me to begin thinking about many things, such as where exactly it was the resided. I'll admit I really don't know the details any more about his, but from the time the movie Mothman Prophecies(which is what prompted me to research them) until this past summer the ideas kind of bounced around in my head slowly becoming more evolved. I began to formulate very vague theories of my own as to these UTs as Keel calls them. My ideas blended together with what he said, and thus took on a whole new form. Now I've always believed humans have many abilities they are not aware of, but we occasionally get glimpses of(i.e. premonitions in dreams being a taste of a slight possibility to "sense" the future to some degree, or people picking up "vibes" from other people about there personalities, without ever talking to them, etc.). Now naturally certain people would be more in tune with these abilities than others, just as some people can make music and others can't. For instance I rarely judge people on their actions, and almost always on the "vibes" I get from them when I first meet them. I'll admit that sometimes I am wrong, although generally I'm not. There have been people that outwardly were complete assholes, but I got good vibes from so I stuck with them, and they were there for me when I needed something. Of course the reverse has also happened that people who are outwardly very nice I get bad vibes from, and eventually something happens that proves either I shouldn't have stayed by them, or I as right in choosing not to. But anyway, back to tieing the human abilities to my beliefs, and explaining the influence drugs had. I began to consider that these "UTs" could possibly live in a diffent "realm". As in, while they were on our planet, they were in a seperate reality. This led me to the realization that the reality they lived in had to have something other than them in it. And since sometimes we would sense them, similar to the way you can almost sense that you have a soul, it would follow that your soul was really just a counterpart to you which existed in this "spirit realm" which the UTs occupied. Drawing from my knowledge of Native American religions, rather than from my catholic upbringing I began to wonder if all the other living creatures, and even plants, anything organic, would also have these "spirit realm" counterparts. Now heres where the human abilities ties in. Just as some people are more sensitive to those abilities, I'd imagine that some people, under the right conditions would be more sensitive to the presence of the unknown. It would stand to reason that if I was correct about this realm existing than there most likely would be some people who could sense it more, and some who could sense it less. Now you have to realize that my above explanations are more in depth than they had been in my head at the time. Until taking the hallucinogen(which was LSA in HBWR seeds) all these ideas were more passing thoughts which would pop up every now and then, then they were. They hadn't even evolved to a point a could really call them theories. Now in the months before my experience with the seeds I had made my decision to not make my confirmation in the Roman Catholic church, as I had realized, that even if I eventually became christian, I was quite appalled by the Roman Catholic practices. So after that, because I still felt as though there must be something more to life than electric impulses I began to read about different religions, and often found myself in theological discussions. And thus the stage was set for my loose ideas to become more prominent in my head. Flash forward a month or two and its August. My confirmation would have been in May had I chosen to complete that sacrament. Its around 9 o'clock in the morning and I am about to take the seeds. I'm sitting in a crevice/crater type of area which is about 20ft. wide and about 100ft. deep in a state park. I'm with a circle of people, some close friends, some aquantinces. There are about 9 of us total and about 4 or 5 of us are playing hand drums of some sort(tongue drums, djembes, frame drums). My loose ideas have been more prominent in my head lately, but have only evolved slightly, as I havn't managed to connect them all yet, or even realized that they related in any way. I take 12 seeds and spend the rest of the day exploring the forest, and going through caves. The entire time I feel very in tune with nature, as if it was speaking to my. It seemed as if every living thing was telling me something, and had emotions. Some trees seemed wise, some plants were happy, some were pensieve. Throughout the day experiences such as that resulted in my being more assured of the idea that all living things had a "soul" as christians call it. I also felt as though I understood myself much more. As if for the first time I could understand what my body told me. Throughout the day all my loose ideas began to connect, and become more concrete. I arrived home at around 4 o'clock in the afternoon and took a shower. While washing the mud and dirt from my body I felt as though I was being reborn, a new person, with a new understanding of the world. Now I am sure much of the way I felt towards nature that day was related to the seeds which I ate. I considered this experience to be amazing and felt the urge to tell everyone about it, although I did not tell anyone right away. I gave myself time over the next few days when I was not under the influence of any drugs to go through all the events and sort out my thoughts. I also wandered the woods near my own home to see if I could still sense the presence of the plants, which I could, although I did not feel I had as great an understanding of it as I had before. It was only after a few days when I had thought about it sober that I decided my experience was more important than just a fun time I had on some drugs. It was only then that I began to talk openly about these theories and ideas, which I believe in strongly.

As you can see I did not simply take some random thing I thought while on drugs and try to form a theology around it. The drug assisted me in putting together the puzzle pieces which were already in my mind, and I believe that is the same for most people who would consider an experience they had on drugs as a religious one. I consider the idea of someone simply grabbing a random thought they had while tripping and trying to make it into a belief system without even really thinking about it in a sober state of mind absolutely prepostrous, and I would agree that that would not be a philosophy to trust, as it had no influence from the person, and was more influenced by the effects of the drug.

I would also like to note, that other hallucinogens I've taken had no effects whatsoever in relation to my theological beliefs.

I enjoyed reading your post, WarKrisMagic.

Religion and psychoactive drug use have been closely connected for centuries, although many people seem to mistakenly think it's a relatively recent phenomenon.

Religious experience, on a scientific level, can be explained in neurophysiological terms. Once can alter one's brain chemistry in many ways to attain mystical experience - through prayer, through meditation, through psychoactive drug use, and other ways. No matter the method, the neurophysiological state is identical. Drugs DO cause religious experiences, the same ones reached through prayer and meditation, although one may certainly discount these as not "spiritual" enough if it does not fit with their value system. (Some people, for example, have argues that drug-induced mystical experiences are less valid because they happen immediately, instead of over a length of time.) However, one cannot say that there is a difference, on a neurophysiological level, between these states.

A good book on the neurophysiology of religious experience:

BRAIN SCIENCE AND THE BIOLOGY OF BELIEF: WHY GOD WON'T GO AWAY

by Andrew Newberg, M.D., Eugene D'Aquili, M.D., Ph.D, and Vince Rause



As a note for your other comments about Catholicism:

Catholics don't use the King James Bible, although I do understand the point you were trying to make.

Who says that all religious traditions and rituals must be derived from a book? Catholics don't think that, and (from your post) it doesn't sound like you think that either. Truth can be found in realms other than the textual.





[This message has been edited by Lolita (edited 10-09-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by UnknownVeritas:

Fuck:

Though I can't say that I agree with including agnostics in this category. A true agnostic realizes just how clueless they are as to the true nature of the universe. Anyone that claims their own agnosticism, yet openly criticizes other's beliefs in an intellectually superior fashion is in no way an agnostic.

I partially agree with you. I would consider myself an agnostic (for the time being until I'm done experimenting with different religions (and drugs http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif))) but I do realise that there are a lot of hardcore christians out there who follow blindly and who refuse to accept the possibility that they might be wrong in a doublethink fashion.

I say christians because I live in a christian society and have no experience on this with other religions.

One such guy came to give our class a talk... I challenged him and whenever he knew I had caught him with a question he'd respond by not answering my question, saying "God works in mysterious ways" or nodding comprehensively and moving on. Bastard.

I suppose it did him a lot of good though, he's one of those guys converted from gangster life and he has killed before, it's just his closed-mindedness that pisses me off.

I also have a good few Christian friends who are reasonable and open minded and they have found comfort in their religion, whether believing what the bible says quite literally or taking God as a metaphor. One things for sure though, they have more faith in the bible than they do in the church. I always find that the open-minded ones can examine the church with an objective view and find what they agree and disagree with.

I suppose you could describe me as a believer in personal religion as opposed to organised religion.

Lolita, you misunderstood me about my comments about the bible and catholic traditions. Its not that they must come from the book, its that they should not contradict the book. If the book remained indifferent then I would not consider it an issue.

And also, the King James is one of I believe 4 bibles accepted by Catholics

quote:Originally posted by WarKrisMagic:

Lolita, you misunderstood me about my comments about the bible and catholic traditions. Its not that they must come from the book, its that they should not contradict the book. If the book remained indifferent then I would not consider it an issue.

And also, the King James is one of I believe 4 bibles accepted by Catholics

Ah, I see. So are you saying that praying to saints would be non-Biblical idol worship? I see where you're coming from. Personally, I have no problem with contradictions, but my beliefs are somewhat unorthodox.

The King James version is a Protestant Bible. For all I know, though, perhaps the Vatican issued a decree that accepted it. Church history (Catholic or Protestant) is really not my thing. Can you provide a link?

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

So. You had an interaction who has a different set of beliefs than you do.

It's funny that you mock him because he doesn't share the notion that you could be right, but in return you look down upon him simply because he believes in God and you don't. Irony in it's purest form.

Oh, indubitably.

Because as we all know, it wouldn't have anything due to the fact that the fundy's circular logic-based assertions were fact-free and delicious or completely incredulous or anything like that.

quote:Originally posted by dearestnight_falcon:

I agree 110%.

Its demeaning to any spiritually inclined person when some stoner starts claiming that they achieved union with the universe from smoking a bowl.

Different means to the same ends.

To each his own.

quote:Originally posted by Lolita:

BRAIN SCIENCE AND THE BIOLOGY OF BELIEF: WHY GOD WON'T GO AWAY

by Andrew Newberg, M.D., Eugene D'Aquili, M.D., Ph.D, and Vince Rause

I'll save you the read.

Ignorance, therefore God.



[This message has been edited by Dark_Magneto (edited 10-10-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Dark_Magneto:

I'll save you the read.

Ignorance, therefore God.

[This message has been edited by Dark_Magneto (edited 10-10-2004).]

Out of curiosity, have you read the book?

I'm ashamed to admit, but I could not find a link.

I could be wrong about the King James bible, but I am still fairly certain multiple versions are accepted, and I know one of them is the New American Catholic bible, which is very similar to the King James.

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

These posts are a dime a dozen. Yes, the average christian is not the best person to convince you about Jesus, even though they are indoctrinated to do just that.

However, the average Atheist is not really capable of making a coherant case against God. SOOO many atheists are that way because their parents made them go to church against their will.

And both groups are equally as openminded.



That's about the best i've ever heard it put. Kudos, theBishop.

quote:Originally posted by WarKrisMagic:

I'm ashamed to admit, but I could not find a link.

I could be wrong about the King James bible, but I am still fairly certain multiple versions are accepted, and I know one of them is the New American Catholic bible, which is very similar to the King James.

Yes, I believe multiple versions are accepted as well. Don't ask me what they are, though. (I was raised Catholic as you were; we should know more about this stuff!)

This is the limited amount that I know: the King James Bible doesn't include the apocryphal texts, while Catholic Bibles do.

I just found some info stating that the KJ Bible *previously* included the apocrypha for their historical value, although they were omitted in the 17th century.

I dont belive in any religion. I think we all would be better without it. Why belive in false hope like a god protects us, meanwhile people who have done nothing wrong go and that go to church on sundays and are nice to others die painful deaths. An example would be that my friends aunt recently died in a fire. Everyone got out of the building, except her and her child (she was pregnent). Why belive that someone is watching us, when were on our own, and we help ourselves. Our decions only matter to us and how they effect others, Not for some eternity in a great place, and if there is a god, and he gave us free will to choose and do what we will..why would he give us that just to not belive in him, and suffer in torment for what he chose.

[This message has been edited by PowerToTheMonkey (edited 10-11-2004).]

I'm not sure what impression I gave of my belief system from my posts, but I don't believe there is anyone "protecting us" or "watching over us." Just to clarify.

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

Different drugs have different purposes and potency. Just like you wouldn't drink beer to drive a car more effectively, i think its a little insane to take a hallucinagen to philosophize.

What's wrong with trying to gain a new perspective? Just take what's discovered with a grain of salt. Err, make that a tablespoon.

quote:Originally posted by napoleon_complex:

I would love to hear your reasons on why god doesn't exist(I'm not even talking about the christian god, I just mean a god in general, so don't try using any bible bullshit).

You've never seen god, correct? Have you ever seen an atom, an electron, the bottom of the ocean? I'm guessing no is the answer, but you believe that all these must exist, so why is it that christians and catholics are stupid for believing in something that they cannot see, even though you believe in countless things that you have never/cannot see?



Beleifs in science and suchlike all have evidense to back them up. I have never seen an electron, but the cathode-ray tubes used in the computer monitor in front of me provide damn good evidence that they exist. Simelar evidense can be found that supports the existance of the atom, and the bottom of the ocean. In the post you quoted, I said my evidense for there being no god was that there was no evidense proving he(it)is there. I don't beleve because it would be very stupid to beleve in a claim with no evidense to back it up. My beleifs are logical, theirs are not.

Edit:http://www.totse.com/en/ego/self_improvement/afieldguidetoc174154.html A very good read on how to draw logical conclusions. I gotta get this stuff taught in schools.

[This message has been edited by Duck (edited 10-13-2004).]