Saint Paul:

Formerly known as Saul. He persecuted Christians until he had a vision from God. From that time on he would slay anyone persecuting Christians.

Jesus' outburst of anger at the Jewish Temple:

Jesus attacked the merchants who were selling doves and other animals for sacrifice at an unfair price.

The Battle of Ai:

King Joshua massacred everyone and everything, at Gods command, over their.

The Battle of Jericho:

King Joshua Massacred everyone and everything there also.

Conquering the rest of the Caananite city-states:

The Israelites also killed everyone on this military campaign but occasionally took goods and farm animals as spoils of war.



I could keep on going on but I don't have the bible by me. My point is though, that Christians have the right to go on Crusades.

quote:My point is though, that Christians have the right to go on Crusades.

The "right" ? I don't think so.

Zealots. All of them.

The fervor for war and killing and bloodshed in the name of religion. What a waste. Fanatical partisans on a "crusade" have no "right" to kill.

History has shown again and again: Religion breeds violence. I am happy to disassociate myself from the infectious memes and would rather be pushing up daisies than fighting for an invisible "cause".

well, we don't have the right to play God. to just kill non-christians. We should help those being unfairly persecuted but i'm not gonna go around killing muslims or anything

PS> i know that the catholic church went on crusades so don't get on my case about it

To the Original Poster -

FUCK YOU.

Nothing give anyone the right to fly over to another country, and kill thousands of innocent people.

For fucks sake, all those people have is each other, and to take away a Son who is likely the only source of pride that a man has, or to take away a childs mother, thats fucking evil, and if God condones that, then there are people alive right now who have surpassed God in Compassion and Morality.

But hey... this is coming from someone who believes in a loving God who works through us to improve the world, who wants people to live in peace, as opposed to a psychopath in the sky who plans to return to earth and kill a third of the population, and in the end, torture the majority of people who have ever lived for all eternity.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Sorry to double post... but...



Any religious belief that does not aid a person in growing in compassion and understanding for his fellow man is worthless, any that pushes in the other direction is downright evil.

Your an idiot poster.

Jesus didn't attack individuals, he overturned tables.

Jesus is the final authority for christians, and he attacked no one.

quote:Originally posted by Casimir:

My point is though, that Christians have the right to go on Crusades.

Good thing that the only church controled country has an army equipted with ancient weapons.

quote:The strong pacifism of the early Christians can be seen through the historical and literary evidence, which demonstrates that until about 170 CE there was no apparent Christian involvement within the military structure, and that the first statements regarding such involvement were condemned for running counter to the true teachings of Jesus Christ. Until the advent of Augustine, the preeminent theologian was Origen, who, towards the end of the second century, commented on the passage 'the one who takes the sword shall perish by the sword'. For Origen this was an injunction on the part of Christ to his followers to clothe themselves in the spiritual sword while casting away the warlike sword, and to be on guard lest 'for warfare, or for vindication of our rights, or for any occasion, we should take the sword; for no such occasion is allowed by this evangelical teaching' (Windass, 12). Origen further adds in a different situation: 'We do not draw the sword against any nation, and we no longer learn to fight, because we have become, thanks to Jesus, Sons of Peace' (Dom Bede Griffith OSB, 72).

http://www.mcauley.acu.edu.au/~yuri/ethics/war.html

quote:With regard to official regulations about service within the military forces at this time, we possess the Canons of St Hippolytus, who drew up his regulations in order to defend 'the traditional practices of the Church against recent error and the apostasy of ignorant men' (Beks, 102). There he makes it quite clear that if a man served in the army of the emperor, then he should not be accepted as a Christian, and also that if a catechumen showed military aspirations then he should also not be received into the fold of the Church. His Canons further stated that 'a soldier of civil authority must be taught not to kill and to refuse to do so if he is commanded' (Beks, 102).

If a catechumen or a baptized Christian wishes to become a soldier, let him be cast out. For he has despised God. (Gregory Dix, The Treatise on The Apostolic Tradition of St Hippolytus of Rome, 3rd rev, [London: Alban Press, 1937], 26 - 7)

[This message has been edited by inquisitor_11 (edited 08-30-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Bush for president:

Yes, Casimir, I agree with you 100%. Tell everyone. Organize. Go after the terrorist bastards and punish them. Slay them!



Persecution of Christians:



http://www.domini.org/openbook/home.htm

http://www.persecution.org

[This message has been edited by Bush for president (edited 08-30-2004).]



Um, Sam, the people that we're fighting right now have little to nothing to do with the terrorism that struck us at 9/11. While we're fighting the wrong people, Saudi Arabia is getting rich and funding more groups. Why don't you head a crusade there? Saudi Arabia also holds most of the most holy sites in Islam. Oh, thats right, you're completely misinformed and you love your lifestyle more than you love your god.

Hey, people, don't flame me I'm not christian anymore; I'm Agnostic right now. Sometimes I read the bible for the pure heck of it, and I read about these violent acts and I'm just posting that any fanatical christian can use the bible to his advantage to go to war with so called 'infidels'

according to its core values, christianity should merge with other religious and cultural worldviews in love and harmony, not try to obliterate them.

quote:Originally posted by Casimir:

Hey, people, don't flame me I'm not christian anymore; I'm Agnostic right now. Sometimes I read the bible for the pure heck of it, and I read about these violent acts and I'm just posting that any fanatical christian can use the bible to his advantage to go to war with so called 'infidels'

You could use almost anything to justify a fanatical cause, not just the Bible.

It should also be pointed out that every major world religion has been used for a political cause, but that does not mean the religion agrees with that cause.

An example from Christianity: the Crusades.

Even Buddhism has been used for a political cause: In Japan during WWII, there was a nationalist, "war-time" Buddhism, that supported the acts of the Japanese Empire.

A sidenote about the Crusades ( this is not an attack on Xity, merely about history and current events).

http://atheism.about.com/od/crusades/a/crusades_4.htm

With all this talk about Islam and Jihad, is it not the same as the Crusades? A political cause veiled in religion?



[This message has been edited by Social Junker (edited 10-04-2004).]

^^^ Islam is religion and politics combined, so it's not really a political cause veiled in religion. But nonetheless there are a few differences. Christians killed everyone when they entered Jerusalem. Muslims didn't.

Bullshit.

No one has the "right" to kill another person (and crusades are just organized murder and rape--good Christians love to rape the infidels), except possibly in direct self-defense.

I'm closing this thread.

Because I can.

Cheers,

Lost