To all Christians:

Please let it be known that I am a strong follower in the Lord.

That being said, my best friend is suicidal. She has bipolar disorder. I am suicidal, and I feel I'm depressed. But, I would like to know exactly where in the Bible it says suicide is wrong. It says murder is wrong, and you could argue that what Jesus did was suicide, because he knew that he would be killed.

Why, are you planning on commiting suicide or something? Trust me, friend, that is not the answer.

quote:Originally posted by Discipulus:

To all Christians:

Please let it be known that I am a strong follower in the Lord.

That being said, my best friend is suicidal. She has bipolar disorder. I am suicidal, and I feel I'm depressed. But, I would like to know exactly where in the Bible it says suicide is wrong. It says murder is wrong, and you could argue that what Jesus did was suicide, because he knew that he would be killed.

Fear not... trust in the Lord

that being said, I'm going to start out by copying something that i just read:

"Does someone go to hell for committing suice?"



"Those who are adamant that a person who takes his life is committing a mortal sin, and will go to hell, are basing their belief on church doctrine rather than on the Bible. Scripture is silent on the subject. There are no verses that say "He who takes his own life shall be damned." According to Scripture, only one sin does not have forgiveness, and that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. That means there is forgiveness for EVERY other sin.

Some quote:

I Corinthians 3:17 If anyone destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him; for God`s temple is holy, which you are.

, which says that God will destroy someone who "defiles' the temple of the Holy Spirit. Yet, there is disagreement about what it means to defile the temple. Does this include suicide? Does it include illicit drug abuse (slow suicide), prescription drug abuse, cigarettes (deliberately breathing in poisons that will eventually kill), tatoos, over-eating (digging a grave with your spoon), or alcohol abuse?

God forbid that we add to the pain of someone who has lost a loved one through the tragedy of suicide, by making a judgment about their eternal destiny. God is the ultimate Judge, and we should therefore leave the issue in His hands. It would be wise to follow the biblical example and not come to any verdict on the case of suicide."

Ok..copying time is over...

Most everyone, at atleast one time in their life, has considered suicide. So you are not alone in your thoughts. Depression is very strong, sometimes it feels like it will not end. And when it is reoccurring, it is more overwhelming.

I've been there, gun in mouth, finger already tightening around trigger. Right before i got to this point, i prayed to God to stop me. The phone rang, and it was a Christian friend from Texas. I'm not sure why i took the gun out of my mouth to answer the phone, but i am sure glad that i did. She said that she knew it was late and she was sorry for calling but she had a very bad feeling and an overwhelming urge to call... I fell on the floor bawling. She told me to listen to Travis Tritt -- Great day to be alive... at that point, she still did not know that i was so close to death. There is much more to the story but that is plenty for now.

Discipulus, you said that you are Christian, is your friend also. If so, the two of you should pray to God (which i'm sure that you have)...keep in mind the first line that i posted...Fear not... trust in the Lord

The second thing to do is to talk to someone you trust, about your and your friend's problem. Seek some medical attention. Keep busy. If you stay busy, there is less time for your mind to dwell on the depression. Depression is self-feeding.

Lastly, more to answer your question, the part i copied said that the Bible does not say that suicide is a one-way ticket to hell. But, like you said, it is murder, which is a sin. And someone said to me a long time ago, "how do you ask for forgiveness of that sin, once you are dead?"

Fear not... trust in the Lord

My prayers are with you.

May God have mercy on you--- and keep you.

Suicide is definitely not the answer.

However, if you're seeking Biblical legitimation, here's a passage that might be of interest to you:

"Surely you know that you are God's temple and that God's spirit lives in you! So if anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you yourselves are his temple."

1 Corinthians 3:16-17

Remember: bad times are only temporary. Good times and bad times are both part of life. You'll get through this and you've got many, many good times ahead. As does your friend.

Ooops, simulpost. Guess we were both thinking of the same thing!

it says thou shall not kill. That means yourself....

quote:

kinda talking 'bout the slit wrist quick fix

suicide is the subject of this j-funk mix

if you got ears to hear then please listen to this

there is a war going on with subconcious tricks

they say your nothin' your no one your life ain't worth ....

as they twist the knife and laugh when you trip

no hope joke swinging the suicide rope

the noose pulled tight i am starting to choke



Chorus

Somebody told me i am loved

somebody told me that i am good enough

somebody told me i can call the bluff

somebody showed me i love you this much



http://www.juxtaposemusic.com/lyrics.htm

Discipulus... this time will pass.

Talk to people you trust about how you feel. Please.

quote:Originally posted by Discipulus:

you could argue that what Jesus did was suicide, because he knew that he would be killed.

(In defense of you not killing yourself) Are you comparing yourself to Jesus? You could say breathing is suicide, because you know eventually you'll die. Supposedly Jesus had a prophecy to fullfill. Unless you have a biblical prophecy to fullfill, suicide is totally against all christian beliefs.

And is otherwise lame. If life is that bad, walk out to the street and put your thumb out. Get away from wherever you are and put yourself in an actual dire situation.

It might give you some perspective.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by Discipulus:

my best friend is suicidal. She has bipolar disorder. I am suicidal, and I feel I'm depressed.

People in TOTSE dont want you or your friend to commit suicide... and we have not had the pleasure to get to know you.

How much more, then, would your families and friends miss you?

Just in case you are embarassed to tell them your problems, put yourself in their shoes for a second... if a friend of yours actually commited suicide, wouldnt you have wished that that person would have talked to you, so that you could show how much YOU care. YOU wouldnt tease or look down on them if they told you. Now get back in your own shoes (cause those high heels are killing your feet ) http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Hope you join the ranks of TOTSE AGAIN.

And I hope your stay among the living.

God Bless you and fear not... trust in the Lord

quote:Originally posted by Zman:

it says thou shall not kill.



Actually, it says 'Thou shalt not MURDER', there's a big difference.

quote:Originally posted by StoneMan:

Actually, it says 'Thou shalt not MURDER', there's a big difference.



Wouldn't killing yourself be the same as murdering yourself?

Hmm, we'll pray together next time I see her.

quote:Originally posted by Social Junker:

Wouldn't killing yourself be the same as murdering yourself?

Yes.

I was talking about the commandment in general, which is to not murder. Not all killing is murder, but I believe suicide is murder because it is premeditated, among other things.

Real men do not commit suicide. Real men know just how much life sucks. Real men grit their teeth and take it bill after bill, war after war, tumor after tumor. You don't greet Death, you punch him in the throat repeatedly as he drags you away. I think John Wayne said it best when he said, "Fuck Death and the lung cancer he rode in on.".

Murder and suicide are only different because of what we call them.

Nothing is so bad that you can't talk to someone about it http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif) To quote an old Silverchair song, "don't feel bAAaaAaaaaAAd, you're not the only one". You can and will get through this, I promise you. In fact, just look at the Silverchair's Daniel Johns. He started off making angsty depressed grunge and now he's making cheery synth-pop! He's proof that bad situations are only temporary, and that you will see better times. Talk to someone about it, someone can help you http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

1Cr 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? (20) For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

The context of this verse is sexual sin and adultury, but still the idea is that our bodies are not our own. To kill one's self is to murder someone god paid for and had a plan for.

The challenges God allows us to undergo are meant to prepare us to do what we are meant to do.

theBishop

suicide is the greatest form of self criticism,be a fuckin man and ride it out.If u cant do that go to yer doctor and get some prozac.

For the logical thinker, suicide is the only rational choice to make.

But since when have humans been known to be logical thinkers?

For the most part, however, suicide seems to be an attempt to make existence just shut the fuck up. As a christian, however, death is not the end rather it is the begining. With this frame of mind why would you consider suicide? Guaranteed spot in satan's asshole.

Instead of killing your"self" why not just kill your "life"? What I mean by that is, just completely disintigrate everything in your life and just.....go. Wander around, do the Lord's work or whatever it is you'd want to do if living wasn't a necessity anymore (since the option for suicide is so apparent living obviously isn't a top priority for you.). Do some ghandi style humanity work, or start a revolution. What have you got to lose?

Your life?

You don't even want it.

ive never read anywhere in the Bible where it outright says "you must not kill yourself" or any verse forbidding suicide. i had been told that for years and when i actually read through the entire bible, i was suprised to not find anything about it. however there are a couple instances in the bible where suicide is mentioned. and both of them are connected to bad situations. the first where king saul kills himself by falling on his sword after his son jonathan is killed in battle and so he wont be captured by the philistines. the second is where judas iscariot kills himself after jesus is crucified. like others have said, suicide isnt the answer. one of my great grandfathers and my aunt just last year killed themselves. life is hard but just keep holding on. if things cant get any worse, they can only get better.

quote:Originally posted by Dark_Magneto:

Real men do not commit suicide. Real men know just how much life sucks. Real men grit their teeth and take it bill after bill, war after war, tumor after tumor. You don't greet Death, you punch him in the throat repeatedly as he drags you away. I think John Wayne said it best when he said, "Fuck Death and the lung cancer he rode in on.".

"REAL MEN" ???

So, he is not a real man, because he is experiencing a natural emotional occurance in almost every human beings life ?

Wow...you just lost all your cool points.

Wait, I take that back. You never had any.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Gnool:

Nothing is so bad that you can't talk to someone about it http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif) To quote an old Silverchair song, "don't feel bAAaaAaaaaAAd, you're not the only one". You can and will get through this, I promise you. In fact, just look at the Silverchair's Daniel Johns. He started off making angsty depressed grunge and now he's making cheery synth-pop! He's proof that bad situations are only temporary, and that you will see better times. Talk to someone about it, someone can help you http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Except the sad moral of that story is: HIS MUSIC WAS GREAT WHEN HE WAS AN ANGSTY TEEN.

Now, he is an embarassment to the music industry.

*laughs*

Your post was EXCELLENT, Traffic.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

One thing you MUST consider, as a Christian, is that you are STILL HERE.

If you are still here, then God still has a plan for you !

If God still has a plan for you, then you are well worth the flesh you are carrying.

To say that your life is no longer worth living is to say that you do not trust God enough to be the Master of your House.

You do not rely on Him to guide your days and your ways.

The issue here, is within YOU. (I beg that you don't take that harshly. My point is that if you seek Him, you will find Him.)

I have to disagree with some points previously made by Bishop and some others, though...

Murder is a sin. But no sin is greater than another.

You will not be condemned to Hell because you commit murder. The only unforgivable sin (thus the sin that will buy you a one way ticket to Hell) is the unbelief of God.

If no sin is greater than another, would you say that lying would send you to Hell ? No.

Another thing to think about it is that God can do ALL THINGS. By committing suicide, you are essentially saying that God was not powerful enough to pull you through your situation.

He was not loving enough, or smart enough to help you when you most needed it.

Have you ever read the Footprints poem ?

"One night a man had a dream. He dreamed he was walking along the beach with the Lord. Across the sky flashed scenes from his life.

For each scene, he noticed two sets of footprints in the sand: one belonging to him, and the other to the Lord.

When the last scene of his life flashed before him, he looked back at the footprints in the sand.

He noticed that many times along the path of his life there was only one set of footprints. He also noticed that it happened at the very lowest and saddest

times in his life.

This really bothered him and he questioned the Lord about it.

"Lord, You said that once I decided to follow you, You'd walk with me all the way. But I have noticed that during the most

troublesome times in my life, there is only one set of footprints. I don't understand why when I needed you most you would leave me."

The Lord replied, "My son, My precious child, I love you and I would never leave you. During your times of trial and suffering, when you see only one set of footprints, it was then that I Carried You." - by Mary Stevenson

And what about the song "Amazing Grace" ?

"Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,

That saved a wretch like me....

I once was lost but now am found,

Was blind, but now, I see.

T'was Grace that taught...

my heart to fear.

And Grace, my fears relieved.

How precious did that Grace appear...

the hour I first believed.

Through many dangers, toils and snares...

we have already come.

T'was Grace that brought us safe thus far...

and Grace will lead us home.

The Lord has promised good to me...

His word my hope secures.

He will my shield and portion be...

as long as life endures.

When we've been here ten thousand years...

bright shining as the sun.

We've no less days to sing God's praise...

then when we've first begun.

Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,

That saved a wretch like me....

I once was lost but now am found,

Was blind, but now, I see."



The point of God in our lives is to GIVE US A HOPE !!

Jeremiah 29:11: "For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD , "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."

He has a plan for you, and it is for GOOD. It is to give you a HOPE !

It sounds like you need to do some praying. He is listening, friend...

I would also recommend getting to a church, and cracking open that Bible.

The devil is attacking you for a reason...you must have a higher purpose.

Take joy in knowing your Creator loves you, and knows every little hair on your head.

He sent His son to die for you, and that alone should make life worth living !

God bless you, and keep you...in all of your days.

May His word be a "lamp unto your feet, and light unto your path".

people in this world are going threw worse shit then you dude even if the bible didnt say what would you say at the gates of heaven? how would you justify it?

Mate, Murder is wrong, suicide is even worse. God gave you your body and your soul, its not really YOUR body to kill, its his, and if you kill the Body God has given you, its like destroying a part of God, God loves you more than you can imagine, and Christ himself died for you, if you feel down, ask God to take away the pain, ask him to help you out, and remember we all have tough times bro. I was just the same, I asked God to help me out, and just like that within the week i was happier

Hang in there mate, Life gets better, I've been down the road your at

*lt;sigh*gt; another group of bible thumpers who think that two omnipotent beings would actually give a rat's ass about you or anybody. Consider it for a moment. God, (an incorporeal/intangible/non-analog omnipotent being) created this universe for one shit-ball, Arkansas quality planet in one shit-ball, Arkansas quality galaxy, in a universe populated by eight million idiots. Logic train? *lt;ZOOM*gt; looks like we missed it, y'all! First, God does not think, act, care, or feel anything nearing something that an idiot human could experience. Second, Jesus was a carpenter. He wandered around a desert with a bunch of fame-seeking morons while he was looking for work. John the baptist is an example of one of his most trusted followers, he ate bugs, he wore the untreated skins of animals, he used mind-altering substances constantly, and he dunked people in rivers! These were not the 'good' people that the bible (A flawed book, written by drug-users, re-written over three hundred and fifty recorded times, edited to rephrase, remove, and re-align the text. Translated from Aramaic, a language that has over 500 different meanings on every word in the language, the meaning has been completely changed 50 times by literary-liscencing monks, an extremest king, 5 churches, and countless other people, entire books were removed (the ones that said to hurt yourself, kill the disbelievers, and to kill, not divorce, your wife), and people still believe it as the unabridged truth.)makes them out to be. Furthermore, every author to the book has added their own touches, halloucinations, and drug-induced mental meanderings. Okay, geniuses, Consider that God in all its power would even consider caring (in its own way) about a planet that has decided for itself the nature of god. That would be like bacteria living on your shit thinking that you cared about it just because you created all that it had ever known to exist. Now, denying all that I told you was true (and it is, I researched all of it.), that still leaves the hole open for Satan. Both are (supposedly) omnipotent. God is one's title. (saying god is not blasphemy, any name pronouncable by a human tongue, any name conceivable by a human brain is wrong. God is its title. it's like being arrested for saying 'President' if there was a law against saying the president's name.) Satan falls under that same thought process. If there was a god that cared about this planet, there wouldn't be a satan. (It has been proven, the word "Satan" comes from the aramaic word for "human nature". This basically means that satan was never an angel that wanted the throne to heaven, it was a term describing the compulsion to do the immoral.) In conclusion, nobody who says they're suicidal is suicidal. if you wanted to die, everything is a means to do so. Thank you.

quote:Originally posted by Phayder92889:

*lt;sigh*gt; another group of bible thumpers who think that two omnipotent beings would actually give a rat's ass about you or anybody. Consider it for a moment. God, (an incorporeal/intangible/non-analog omnipotent being) created this universe for one shit-ball, Arkansas quality planet in one shit-ball, Arkansas quality galaxy, in a universe populated by eight million idiots. Logic train? *lt;ZOOM*gt; looks like we missed it, y'all! First, God does not think, act, care, or feel anything nearing something that an idiot human could experience. Second, Jesus was a carpenter. He wandered around a desert with a bunch of fame-seeking morons while he was looking for work. John the baptist is an example of one of his most trusted followers, he ate bugs, he wore the untreated skins of animals, he used mind-altering substances constantly, and he dunked people in rivers! These were not the 'good' people that the bible (A flawed book, written by drug-users, re-written over three hundred and fifty recorded times, edited to rephrase, remove, and re-align the text. Translated from Aramaic, a language that has over 500 different meanings on every word in the language, the meaning has been completely changed 50 times by literary-liscencing monks, an extremest king, 5 churches, and countless other people, entire books were removed (the ones that said to hurt yourself, kill the disbelievers, and to kill, not divorce, your wife), and people still believe it as the unabridged truth.)makes them out to be. Furthermore, every author to the book has added their own touches, halloucinations, and drug-induced mental meanderings. Okay, geniuses, Consider that God in all its power would even consider caring (in its own way) about a planet that has decided for itself the nature of god. That would be like bacteria living on your shit thinking that you cared about it just because you created all that it had ever known to exist.

Now, denying all that I told you was true (and it is, I researched all of it.), that still leaves the hole open for Satan. Both are (supposedly) omnipotent.

God is one's title. (saying god is not blasphemy, any name pronouncable by a human tongue, any name conceivable by a human brain is wrong. God is its title. it's like being arrested for saying 'President' if there was a law against saying the president's name.) Satan falls under that same thought process. If there was a god that cared about this planet, there wouldn't be a satan. (It has been proven, the word "Satan" comes from the aramaic word for "human nature". This basically means that satan was never an angel that wanted the throne to heaven, it was a term describing the compulsion to do the immoral.) In conclusion, nobody who says they're suicidal is suicidal. if you wanted to die, everything is a means to do so. Thank you.

Shirley (not surely), you jest.

Try researching it again, this time take off the shit stained glasses. Did you research it with an open mind or did you already think it was B.S. before you started? I've researched it too, but i started out with an attitude of trying to learn something, not from the point of view that i wanted to prove that my opinion was right... and i came up with an entirely differentn outlook.

Pssst....by the way, Satan is not omnipotent.

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

Shirley (not surely), you jest.

Try researching it again, this time take off the shit stained glasses. Did you research it with an open mind or did you already think it was B.S. before you started? I've researched it too, but i started out with an attitude of trying to learn something, not from the point of view that i wanted to prove that my opinion was right... and i came up with an entirely differentn outlook.

Pssst....by the way, Satan is not omnipotent.

christwagons... I researched this point with an open mind, but only one marginally so.. The lack of mental prowess needed to believe blindly and follow like a blind/deaf person is appalling. you specifically sound like an individual who was beaten into submission with the ideals of the bible. the messages contained within that book (That's all it is) are good ideas, not something to consider as anything more than a guideline for a decent life that was written by a bunch of stoners with good ideas. To think that a book was written by a being that couldn't be less involved with this backwater little planet is absurd. my outlook suits me. I am a skeptic of very few things. christianity in its many forms is one of the only religions I take my precious time to blow holes in. it's not worth it to take complete stock in something this hilariously funny to believe.

(By the way, I have 20/25 vision... I see better than normal, and that's the honest truth.)

I guess you could pray for help from your god or something but who knows, the Christian god might have plans for you to commit suicide to act as a guide to others about what not to do and all that greater good bullshit. Don't try to fight it too hard now. You'd probably get compensated for it in Heaven, right? http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

D_S, i'm a bit confused by your post. The ts asked for a bible verse that said suicide was bad. I tried to do that. I never said that someone who commits suicide would go to hell, nor did i say suicide was worse than rape, murder, lying, etc.

I'm not sure where disagreement is.

Ummm...I looked back at my posts, and honestly I DON'T KNOW.

*lol*

Sorry, dood.

Manic depression will not "just pass". My dad had manic depression. There was a time when he wasn't scared of death. The only way to solve it is through serious psychological counseling or therapy.

And if anyone feels they need to say "you only need the love of god to overcome depression", you are the truest idiot. If god meant for it to be it that way, he wouldn't allow a mindset in people where all faith is lost.