Lately I have been thinking about God, chucrch and religions, and im starting to feel that it is a ll just an elaborate control system to keep us in line...I mean, if YOU were some ancient leader, and all your people were commiting crimes, doesn't it seem like a good idea to create this thing that you can't question, that can't be proven wrong, that offers IMMENSE rewards (afterlife) with no way of showing that it doesn't exist, and is obtained by basiclly not stepping out of line??? But still, my mind feels that there must be SOME higher force. It all seems too....perfect, too beautiful too be random...I guess I just wanted to get that off my chest. So there.

A better question would be: can any religion be proven to be true?



The answer is no.



You really struck the nail on the head when you said control, that is the purpose that religion really serves.

Not that that is entirely undesirable.

What is the Matrix? Control. The Matrix is a fantasy-generated dreamworld built to keep us under control in order to change a human being into this.

(holds up a sheep)

Strip all of the religions of all thier superfluous baggage, all the limiting "control" added on, all the pointless garbage and what you're left with is the same for them all.

A life worth living.

You don't want to be controlled, then don't be controlled. I'll tell you this though, it's a lot easier to be controlled that's the reason for these religion's longevity. A majority of people don't go looking for answers staring them right in the face, they leave it to the "experts" who are thrown into this nonsense just as confused and unaware of what's "true" as anybody. Because of this nature in people the various go-to guys of faith have a choice to make. Far too often the decision comes down to let the peons know only what they want them to know, control the past to justify the present to rule in the future. Power for power's sake.

That's humanity's fault though, not "God".

It's true if you want it to be. Fact.

Well, I guess we will likley never know...

quote:Originally posted by drkphnx:

Well, I guess we will likley never know...

...until we die, anyway. My face is going to be red if I end up in Hell.

Oops.

I think Zen comes close, but some would argue that it is not a religion.

But what if there is no heaven or hell? I would rather go to hell than go nowhere and just be obliterated.

My religion is true.

quote:Originally posted by theBishop:

My religion is true.

No, mine is. http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

the word religion stems from the latin root 'ligare' which means a tie, or to bind (think ligament).

if the only eternal truth is found in true freedom, then no, there is no true religion.

however, if you understand freedom as consistent with the liberating nature of paradox, then there is a true religion - the worship of everything in general, and nothing in particular.

if you're dead you won't know it. besides, you don't get to choose your reality, you only get to deal with it. enjoy.

Constantine the Great started the first religion for one reason ,like the guy said earlier, to bring all of his people together in harmony. just like a big flock of sheep.

Jesus equated people with sheep in a parable...

quote:Originally posted by Fanglekai:

Jesus equated people with sheep in a parable...

.....and your point is.......

quote:Originally posted by B-12 Bandit:

Constantine the Great started the first religion for one reason ,like the guy said earlier, to bring all of his people together in harmony. just like a big flock of sheep.

I'll assume you're speaking of Constantine of Rome, for he is the only historical Constantine I can think of..... but Constantine started no religion whatsoever he merely began tolerance of Christianity in Rome....

quote:Originally posted by Ezratal:

I'll assume you're speaking of Constantine of Rome, for he is the only historical Constantine I can think of..... but Constantine started no religion whatsoever he merely began tolerance of Christianity in Rome....

My history is fuzzy in this area, but didn't Constantine convert to Christianity and proclaim it the official religion of the Roman Empire, after he allegedly received a "sign" from God?

Constantine has also be accused of meddling with early church doctrine, but that could go either way, depending on how you looked at it.

Christianity's rise to official state religion of Rome is considered the first time Christianity and state were joined.



[This message has been edited by Social Junker (edited 10-13-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Social Junker:

My history is fuzzy in this area, but didn't Constantine convert to Christianity and proclaim it the official religion of the Roman Empire, after he allegedly received a "sign" from God?

Constantine has also be accused of meddling with early church doctrine, but that could go either way, depending on how you looked at it.

Christianity's rise to official state religion of Rome is considered the first time Christianity and state were joined.



[This message has been edited by Social Junker (edited 10-13-2004).]

You're probably correct, though that still means the main message of what I wrote, which was the Constantine didn't found a religion as someone had posted... Good show though Social, good show. You seem quite interesting and I'm sorry (for myself) that I haven't ever had the pleasure of being able to discuss things with you... more rapidly than is possible in a forum.

quote:Originally posted by Ezratal:

You're probably correct, though that still means the main message of what I wrote, which was the Constantine didn't found a religion as someone had posted... Good show though Social, good show. You seem quite interesting and I'm sorry (for myself) that I haven't ever had the pleasure of being able to discuss things with you... more rapidly than is possible in a forum.

Oh, my bad, I wasn't disagreeing with you, just expanding on what you said, I should have said that in my post.

Thanks for the compliment, I've enjoyed discussing Buddhism with you in the other thread.

WE ARE MONKEYS. theres no possible way we can completely understand life. END OF STORY.

quote:Originally posted by aTribeCalledSean:

.....and your point is.......



quote:Originally posted by B-12 Bandit:

Constantine the Great started the first religion for one reason ,like the guy said earlier, to bring all of his people together in harmony. just like a big flock of sheep

quote:Originally posted by Fanglekai:

Jesus equated people with sheep in a parable...

Well, I don't wanna die http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/frown.gif)



P.S. I'm Catholic...yeah. So, I dunno, I am skeptical about religion and life and yet im getting confirmed, even though i have practically no beliefs in the church, except for the possibility of a higher power....I guess i'm and agnostic at heart.

[This message has been edited by drkphnx (edited 10-14-2004).]

Can "God" create a rock so big he can't lift it? :P

"The final proof for the omnipotence of God is that he need not exist in order to save us."

-Peter de Vries

p.s.

i'm an ex-catholic

quote:Originally posted by drkphnx:

Can "God" create a rock so big he can't lift it? :P

"Could Jesus microwave a burrito so hot that not even He Himself could eat it?"



-Homer (stoned on grass)