In biblical times, the uneducated followers of god were scientifically handicapped. They did not understand how the world worked, so they made up stories to display why things occured. If they couldnt make up something, then they just blamed it on god. If the israelites wanted to take over a village and kill babies, which is shown in the bible, then they just said that god told them to. People in biblical times used god as leverage to do whatever they wanted. Now, for some obscene reason, people still believe in this ridiculous rumor known as god. I dont understand how some people can be so ignorant, and not challenge such blatant mistakes in the bible. Please explain to me how anything in the bible can be realistic?

Do you realize how many times this has been posted? Do you realize that you're really not a "freethinker", but just another person jumping on the Christianity-bashing bandwagon? Do you realize that what you're saying could be said about a lot of other religions, as well?

Stop beating a dead horse.

If you dont believe in it you will prove yourself correct.

If you believed in it you would prove yourself correct.

Mostly by presenting relevant information to your arguement.

Although I dont believe it, I could argue that the choice given to man is consciousness and that the angels(no conscience or choice) are animals.

That actually makes sense if you think about it.

But as I said i dont believe in it.

sometimes it's not important if god does exist but it's important that people believe in him and can gain themselves relief from their misery through faith.

Cougar

quote:Originally posted by Freethinkers 'R us:

In biblical times, the uneducated followers of god were scientifically handicapped. They did not understand how the world worked, so they made up stories to display why things occured. If they couldnt make up something, then they just blamed it on god. If the israelites wanted to take over a village and kill babies, which is shown in the bible, then they just said that god told them to. People in biblical times used god as leverage to do whatever they wanted. Now, for some obscene reason, people still believe in this ridiculous rumor known as god. I dont understand how some people can be so ignorant, and not challenge such blatant mistakes in the bible. Please explain to me how anything in the bible can be realistic?

I agree, HOWEVER... It's a BELIEF a belief doesn't have to be REAL.. a belief is a blind hope.. Basically "You DON'T have to see it to believe it".. A belief doesn't require proof it's personal..Santa clause isn't real But as children out imaginations were big enough to believe some of the far fetched things we did.. as SOME grow they mature and Learn to think for themselves.. others are safe believeing what they were taught.. Wouldn't you dislike admitting of even thinking that everything you've thought to be true was wrong? Some people want to believe there is some purpose to life.. They can't accept there isn't.. They can't bring themselves to the reality that everthing they do in their life-time is meaningless in the end.. That the end is just that.. The END.?

quote:Originally posted by Social Junker:

Stop beating a dead horse.



The horse wouldn't have to be beaten if it stayed the fuk down. lol. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Cougar:

sometimes it's not important if god does exist but it's important that people believe in him and can gain themselves relief from their misery through faith.

Cougar

The problem arises when that faith tells people to go convert others.

quote:Originally posted by Agnostic:



The horse wouldn't have to be beaten if it stayed the fuk down. lol. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

Damn straight.

What, cmon? Thats the brightest a thing a n00b has ever said.

quote:Originally posted by SurahAhriman:

The problem arises when that faith tells people to go convert others.

i think they should be allowed to try. but at the instant you say you don't want to hear it they should turn around and leave. it's your choice afterall. (hell i got angry at one scientologist asking me twice...)

i actually meant it on a personal level like an old woman, maybe she's ill, having little or no family/friends but can gain great comfort from her belief. (not necessarily christian)

to those in need it can be a great help and even if you don't have any money you can still pray... don't ridicule those who have nothing but faith by saying it's nothing but a rumor. they need it.

Cougar

For the people who rely on the abused, and (for the majority...By this I mean the people that post things such as 'our parents just want us to be fooled' material.) narrow-mindedness of the "Christianity is bullshit" theory...I just want to know 'why'? Is it because you don't have proof? Is it because you're too tied up with worldly obsessions to admit that there's a high power? I guess your mere thought process and time is just too important to add something else to it? Are you afraid? I just want to know...

Everyone keeps talking about "faith" and "belief" and equating that with other forms of knowledge (such as observation).

Forget the paradoxes of the bible. The bible was formed by a committee of bishops lobbying for their favorite books. They came up with rules and "official" verions of Christianity that were allowed to be portrayed in the bible. Therefore beliefs of other sects such as the Gnostics (where the term "agnostic" was derived) were expressly omitted from the official cannon. Some people believe in the bible as the divine word of god, others believe in it as a metaphor, others as yet another collection of myths following in the tradition of the ancient Greeks, Romans, Mayans, and nearly every other civilization on earth with a recorded history.

There are two primary issues with religion but the primary one in my opinion is "belief." Religion requires belief WITHOUT proof. That's the whole point of faith. You can't justify it, you can't prove it, you can't explain it, you just have to believe it. Does that make sense in any other context? Probably not, but with religion it's not only accepted, it's required. In fact, in religion you're told NOT to question your faith, that questioning your faith is a sign of not being a true believer. You're told not to submit to others questioning your faith, that faith doesn't need to be justified, that it needs to be "felt."

Looking at the topic of this board, "My God Can Beat the Shit Out of Your God," it's telling in many respects. The first is that there are many gods. Nearly every religious dogma holds as its tenets that "our god" is the "one true god" and that all of the other gods that others are workshipping are "false" gods. It makes sense that this should be so.

But no one questions belief. I remember this girl in my class who abandoned her faith and went on a spiritual journey only to find her original faith was the "one true faith." Bullshit! The fact is that most people believe what they were raised beileving and only change teams after a life altering event. A Baptist doesn't wake up one day and say, "gee, maybe those Shiites are right." But that baptist sitting in a jail cell reevaluating how they lost their freedoms just might find the "answer" in the form of the teachings of The Nation of Islam.

When I was a pastor of a small church I used to stand at the pulpit and pray to the almighty god and started seeing the way the congregation reacted to different prayers. And I started manipulating those prayers and manipulating the congregation as a result. I saw what people needed to hear and I gave it to them. My approval rating in the church was at an all time high. And I reflected on Marx's opinion that religion is the opiate of the masses and I found myself in full agreement.

So forget religion and look at "faith" and what it provides for you. People need to cling to the idea that there is some "higher purpose" because otherwise it means this life is a meaningless, shitty day to day existence that is cruel and unfair. There must be some reason. There must be some divine retribution or reward that makes it all worth it. Or maybe there isn't. Maybe this shitty world with its shitty problems is all we have, maybe there is no heaven, no hell, no afterlife.

I don't know. I don't believe it is knowable. You can't prove there is no god. But I don't care to live my life believing that there is. I guess you can say I've taken the opposite position to Pascal's wager. In fact, if you believe along the lines of what the bible states, Pascal's "belief" is a false belief and he is going to hell anyway. My belief is along the same lines. If I don't believe in god and there is no god, then I've lost nothing. However, if I don't believe in god and there is a god (specifically the God of the bible) then at worst I'm going to hell and will die (Malachi 4:1-3). In either case, I'm dead and since I'm dead I'm not alive to know what I'd be missing.

You can't prove there is no god, and only God can prove there is a god. Where I have a problem is with "believers" feeling the need to legislate their beliefs. When I grew up you couldn't shop on Sundays because that was god's day. Well fuck me, but doesn't the bible say that the "seventh day" was god's day (Genesis 2:3)? Not only that, but that it's the evening and the morning, just as the Jews celebrate shabbat. At the same time that we deride fundamentalist muslim countries for their legislating islam (with its unequal rights for men and women) we try to legislate christian morality as if it's much better. It's all bullshit if you ask me. Keep your Jesus to yourself and I won't try to kill your Jesus. If you truly believe in your Jesus then you should believe him when he says "vengence is mine" and that he'll burn me up in hell.

quote:Originally posted by Freethinkers 'R us:

Please explain to me how anything in the bible can be realistic?

Since when is religion about reason?

I don't mean this in a condescending way towards religion because I don't think Reason and Rationality are always the ultimate authorities on Truth. They are useful tools, of course, but they are not the only tools. Would you critize a poem or a concerto because it was not reasonable or rational enough? Of course not, because poetry and music belong to different realms.

I think religion belongs to a different realm, too, although since the European Englightment in the 18th century people have been trying to "rationalize" their faith, usually with disastrous and ludicrous results. I view religion as an understanding of the enchanted nature of the universe, while science often tries to disenchant it. (I am in no way rejecting science here, as I find scientific inquiry an excellent path to certain forms of truth.) In my view (which, admittedly, is unorthodox), religion serves the same function as poetry. (Arguably, religion serves many functions but that's one of them.) It is about feeling and emotions and love (for people or for life itself), not about explaining the nature of an electron or the intricacies of quantum mechanics or anything like that. Again, I will reiterate that my views are far from traditional and many religious folks will not agree with me here. I'm just trying to show that there exist alternate, positive ways of viewing religion.

Religion has never needed to make rational sense. One can have elephant gods and burning bushes, mystical illumination and cosmic enlightenment, divine incarnations and resurrected dead. I think it's marvelous, and certainly not something to criticize.

The standards of the scientific method simply can't be applied to religion, whether by literal creationists or hard-nosed atheists. It's a completely disparate realm. I'd like to think we are creative and open-minded enough to have more than one way of viewing the world.

I might add that at one time I felt very much like you, though. Bertrand Russell's WHY I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN was my all-time favorite book. A good read, if you've never come across it. I find it flawed now, but it made sense to me at the time. I recommend it.

God is the original SWIM

quote:I view religion as an understanding of the enchanted nature of the universe, while science often tries to disenchant it.

Understanding how something works is not disenchantment... One can understand how life evolved from single cells to form conscious thought and not lose that enchantment... It is far more enchanting knowing that it was over many years involving so many variables, so many set backs, to become Human DNA; amazing indeed... To point and say, let there be life, instantly created, is some what disenchanting to me...

Btw: Creationism is still been taught in science classes around the world...

Really ? Where ? I wasn't taught Creationism...and not many Christians I know were taught Creationism, either.

Evolution is taught as though it was 2+2, in schools across the nation.

You said "world"...where, and how did you get that information ?

quote:Originally posted by Axiom:

Understanding how something works is not disenchantment... One can understand how life evolved from single cells to form conscious thought and not lose that enchantment... It is far more enchanting knowing that it was over many years involving so many variables, so many set backs, to become Human DNA; amazing indeed... To point and say, let there be life, instantly created, is some what disenchanting to me...

Btw: Creationism is still been taught in science classes around the world...



Yes, I suppose I can agree with most of what you said. Mind you, though, I didn't say science *always* tries to disenchant the world. It is just not *necessary* to see scientific processes as "enchanted" (although it's certainly possible). My own world view could accurately be described as an amalgamation of science and enchantment, much like what yours seems to be.

Creationism is being taught in science classes "around the world"? I find that hard to believe. America, yes, but I don't think any other continent actually believes the Book of Genesis to be literal truth. I may be wrong, and feel free to correct me if so. Did you know that 45% of Americans believe in literal "scientific" creationism? I find that rather frightening.

Even here, though, I'm not sure if they're allowed to teach it in school. My father's an elementary school teacher and isn't allowed to mention God.

Oh shit. Freethinker is right you guys. What have i been doing with my life? Fuck god, i'm going my own way. Thank you Freethinker for showing me the light.

Freethinkers 'R us:

The inner chambers of the Pyramids point outwards towards star formations outside of the field of human visibility 4,000 years before the invention of the telescope.

The Dogon tribe of West Africa have a religion that worships a star (Sirius B) that is impossible to see without a telescope.

Scientists describing the expansion and contraction of the universe are describing the "Inhalation of Brahma," and reaffirming the destiny of the universe as told by millennia of Hindi scholars.

The Ekpyrotic Theory concerning the creation of the universe recounts exactly what creationist mythology has stated since time immemorial.

The social dynamics of the caste system are described in the same way as one superior element in the hierarchy of life acts upon the inferior, leading from the cellular organelles (Untouchables) to the will of a being (Brahmans).

Every myth on the face of the planet has a corresponding psychological conflict that still holds metaphorical prevalence today.

Stone Henge was a geometrically perfect grounds for sun-worship that expertly calculated solar dynamics.

Scientists are even discovering now that astronomical positioning can have a biophysical influence on the way personality is shaped - the fundamental belief in astrology and Zodiac study.

Don't tell me about what 'uneducated followers of god' do and don't understand. They could, on an intellectual basis, dance circles around you, physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. I doubt you've passed puberty, you ignorant little shit.

Know your place.

[This message has been edited by Tyrant (edited 10-20-2004).]

*snickers at Tyrant*

You're so mean... http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

Wow, and i thought sarcasm was effective.

Now i truly am questioning myself.

theBishop

That was a top notch post Tyrant. Where do you find your sources? I ask, not to double check for accuracy, but as should be becoming apparent I am increasingly interested in myths and there significance and correlation to eachother.

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

Freethinkers 'R us:

The inner chambers of the Pyramids point outwards towards star formations outside of the field of human visibility 4,000 years before the invention of the telescope.

The Dogon tribe of West Africa have a religion that worships a star (Sirius B) that is impossible to see without a telescope.

Scientists describing the expansion and contraction of the universe are describing the "Inhalation of Brahma," and reaffirming the destiny of the universe as told by millennia of Hindi scholars.

The Ekpyrotic Theory concerning the creation of the universe recounts exactly what creationist mythology has stated since time immemorial.

The social dynamics of the caste system are described in the same way as one superior element in the hierarchy of life acts upon the inferior, leading from the cellular organelles (Untouchables) to the will of a being (Brahmans).

Every myth on the face of the planet has a corresponding psychological conflict that still holds metaphorical prevalence today.

Stone Henge was a geometrically perfect grounds for sun-worship that expertly calculated solar dynamics.

Scientists are even discovering now that astronomical positioning can have a biophysical influence on the way personality is shaped - the fundamental belief in astrology and Zodiac study.

Don't tell me about what 'uneducated followers of god' do and don't understand. They could, on an intellectual basis, dance circles around you, physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually. I doubt you've passed puberty, you ignorant little shit.

Know your place.

[This message has been edited by Tyrant (edited 10-20-2004).]



WTF does any of that copy/paste bullshit have to do with christianity?

Since I'm feeling benevolent, I've compiled a list of Christian thinkers:

.

working



.

.working

. Awe, screw it.

Hahaha... I didn't even think I would impress anyone with that one. Damn, I must be getting better at sardonic contempt than I thought. http://www.totse.com/bbs/cool.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/cool.gif)

I'm also glad that my humble array of knowledge has given enough of an impression to inspire you, Traffic, to ask ME, of all people, about a subject of which I am also - and always - a student. I believe I talked about this in a different post, but I'll answer it here as well.

Carl Jung and Julius Evola are my Zen masters of religious synchronicity. Jung spoke of the correlation between different myths from a psychological level, referring to the motifs and ideas consistent across cultures as "archetypes." The best analogy to use would be Tarot cards: each card represents a certain element within a set of circumstances that finds its manifestation in a religious parable or myth.

Evola spoke of religious synchronicity from a metahistorical point of view, and outlined a type of basic philosophy/religion from it (referred to loosely as Tradition). He observed the presence of a certain element (for example, solar worship) and connected them with several other instances that correlated with it. Definitely a must-read for anyone studying this kind of thing.

I ask lots of people about different concepts behind religion, and I read everything I see. Here's some recommended reading that can help you in understanding this phenomena:

Edward Edinger: Ego and Archetype. Jungian analyst discussing the dynamics of the relationship between the person (ego) and the different religious situations in which he finds himself (archetypes).

Julius Evola: Revolt Against the Modern World. The Traditionalist's Bible. Enough said.

Joseph Campbell: Hero with a Thousand Faces. Apparently another famous author with a lot of credentials describing religious synchronicity.

Carl Jung: Memories, Dreams, Reflections. Jung's autobiography, this is the closest thing to a collection of his theories as humanly possible.

June Singer: Boundaries of the Soul. A female Jungian analyst describing Jungian psychology; an auxiliary study at best.

Other than this, just keep reading myths, and keep an eye open for what each element in the myth symbolizes.

Goethe's Faust is another highly recommended book, with lots of rich symbolism that is directly analogous to psychic development and individuation (the process of discovering one's true identity). Edward Edinger wrote a pamphlet of Jungian notations on the Faust story; quite adequate as a companion to the Faustian legend.

Hope this all helps.

To the discovery of who we were always meant to be,

-Tyrant

Wolf, no one was talking to you, and no one with integrity ever will. I was addressing the original poster of this thread, not a meager, unwitting peasant like you.

Your post was unclever, you completely ignored the point my post made, you disregarded it as copy/paste bullshit ignorant of the fact that I was and am the exclusive author of this post, you're attempting to draw correlations to subjects I had no intent of addressing, and - the most despisedly ignorant transgression of all - you automatically associated 'religion' and 'god' with Christianity, which succeeds only in betraying the immature and stubborn regression typical of toddlers of equal caliber that indignantly oppose Church doctrine simply because they don't like being told what to do.

Bow at my feet, plebian, as you were born to do.

Well, myself was taught creationism as fact at a catholic school in Australia... I know of it been taught in High Schools in 2 states of America... Missionary schools in Africa and the Pacific Islands...

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:



The inner chambers of the Pyramids point outwards towards star formations outside of the field of human visibility 4,000 years before the invention of the telescope.

The chambers in the Great Pyramids point to Orion, which is clearly visible with the naked eye.

quote:

The Dogon tribe of West Africa have a religion that worships a star (Sirius B) that is impossible to see without a telescope.

So? If we take what they said as true, then creatures from another planet gave that information to them, not religion and not a god.

quote:Scientists describing the expansion and contraction of the universe are describing the "Inhalation of Brahma," and reaffirming the destiny of the universe as told by millennia of Hindi scholars.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Inhalation and Exhalation of Brahma simply refers to creation and destruction.

quote:

The Ekpyrotic Theory concerning the creation of the universe recounts exactly what creationist mythology has stated since time immemorial.

What "creationist mythology" is that?

quote:

The social dynamics of the caste system are described in the same way as one superior element in the hierarchy of life acts upon the inferior, leading from the cellular organelles (Untouchables) to the will of a being (Brahmans).

Because those social castes where created in unity with Hinduism...

quote:

Every myth on the face of the planet has a corresponding psychological conflict that still holds metaphorical prevalence today.

So?

quote:

Stone Henge was a geometrically perfect grounds for sun-worship that expertly calculated solar dynamics.

It was certainly not geometrically "perfect" and what you describe as "expertly calculated solar dynamics" is a fancy way of saying that it was aligned with the solstice and equinox.

This proves scientific might, nothing else.

quote:then creatures from another planet gave that information to them

You can always count on totse posters to draw conclusions based on logic and hard evidence.

Damn, there i go again.

theBishop

How about counting on sub-par reading skills?

I said.... if we take what the Tribe says as true.

It is the tribe itself who claims they got the information from creatures from living in a Star (i.e. aliens), not I. I'm just pointing out, that even if we take that as true, then the phenomenon was not religious nor spiritual, by the Tribe's own admission.

[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 10-20-2004).]

The chambers in the Great Pyramids point to Orion, which is clearly visible with the naked eye.

Not from the inside of the pyramid, it's not. And the fact that it is, like Stonehenge, mathematically perfect in that construction, also implies intellectual and spiritual superiority to common man.

So? If we take what they said as true, then creatures from another planet gave that information to them, not religion and not a god.

THIS is scientific might?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Inhalation and Exhalation of Brahma simply refers to creation and destruction.

... of the universe.

What "creationist mythology" is that?

The union of Euronyme and Ophion, as well as Geia and Uranus, in Greek mythology. The collision between Muspelheim and Niflheim in Scandinavian mythology. The banishment of Ahriman by Ormazd thrusting him back three thousand years into darkness. Ra, the Sun God, emerging from Watery Abyss to form creation in Egyptian mythology. The separation of the primordial Egg into Yin and Yang in Chinese mythology. The sexual union between Izanagi and Izanami, told in the Kojiki of Japanese mythos. The dissection of Ao and Po in Polynesian mythology.

I've got several books worth of this stuff; you want more, all you have to do is beg.

Because those social castes where created in unity with Hinduism...

Several millennia before the discovery of the cell.

So?

This implies a psychological and spiritual insight that is far superior to today's eating-contest culture of technology and 'progress,' of which the majority of its participants cannot even pump their own gas, much less understand the mechanics of the universe.

It was certainly not geometrically "perfect" and what you describe as "expertly calculated solar dynamics" is a fancy way of saying that it was aligned with the solstice and equinox.

First of all, you're wrong - it was, indeed, perfect, as any Stonehenge historian will tell you.

Second of all, it was not merely alignment with the solstice and equinox that made it impressive - though the fact that two-hundred ton stones were moved over 150 miles in exact precision with the solstice by what modern society describes as 'loin-cloth wearing savages' IS impressive enough in my book.

However, a study of one of the inner circles inside Stonehenge shows a diamter of 1162.6 Pyramid inches (a Pyramid inch, or Hebrew inch, is 11/10,000 of a common inch), making the circumference of that circle 3652.42 Pyramid inches. This value - 3652.42 - is equal to the amount of days in a Solar year times ten: 365.242.

To connect this point to another point, those two above-mentioned values - 1162.6 P.inches and 3652.42 P.inches - are also the EXACT dimensions of the Egyptian aurora and the dimensions of the Great Pyramid.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/cool.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/cool.gif)

I win. Forever.

[Edit: misspelled Egypt at a certain point, an incomplete sentence somewhere, and grammatical continuity bugged me.]

[This message has been edited by Tyrant (edited 10-20-2004).]

Wolf, no one was talking to you, and no one with integrity ever will.

*Are you the example of no one with integrity?(you're talking to me, dimwit)

I was addressing the original poster of this thread, not a meager, unwitting peasant like you.



.

*I'll respond to any thread I feel like responding too, flamethrower.I'm a regular here. Who the fuck are you?

.

you disregarded it as copy/paste bullshit ignorant of the fact that I was and am the exclusive author of this post.

.

* Then you really are stupid in your own right.

Congratulations.

.



you're attempting to draw correlations to subjects I had no intent of addressing, and - the most despisedly ignorant transgression of all - you automatically associated 'religion' and 'god' with Christianity, which succeeds only in betraying the immature and stubborn regression typical of toddlers of equal caliber that indignantly oppose Church doctrine simply because they don't like being told what to do.

* Got that?

All I said was, wtf does your post have to do with Christianity? THE SUBJECT OF THIS POST.

.



Bow at my feet, plebian, as you were born to do.



.

* While you are scouring Webster in search of flame

words, in your vain attempt to appear clever, you might look up: non sequitor, and the fallacy of ad hominem.

I do find it amusing that you would call me "plebian", when it is people like you: Pseudo-intellectuals, that are all too common. I'm done with you now, sophist.

You can go now.

One dimension men, all of you talk pretty cool, but no one knows nichts, in this moment Christianity is a business just like petroleum, the money is all they want(geld), better keep people thinking about a paper god, while others told Disney stories about finish terrorism , and everybody believes (that is not theory) mistkerl

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:



Not from the inside of the pyramid, it's not. And the fact that it is, like Stonehenge, mathematically perfect in that construction, also implies intellectual and spiritual superiority to common man.

1. It being "mathematically perfect", which is completely subjective, does not in any way shape or form suggest any spiritual connection. It suggests only mathematical understanding, which in turn suggests reasoning. Nothing spiritual.

quote:[b]

THIS is scientific might?

I'll tell you what it is not; it is not spiritual.

How could you claim that "aliens" giving them the information, is in anyway spiritual or religious? If anything, it is scientific.

quote:

... of the universe.

No. Of anything.

The expansion of the universe does not refer to "creation" and "destruction" in any general sense. The expansion, and contraction, will eventually lead to it, yet the expansion itself does not serve the purpose of explaining creation or destruction.



quote:

The union of Euronyme and Ophion, as well as Geia and Uranus, in Greek mythology. The collision between Muspelheim and Niflheim in Scandinavian mythology. The banishment of Ahriman by Ormazd thrusting him back three thousand years into darkness. Ra, the Sun God, emerging from Watery Abyss to form creation in Egyptian mythology. The separation of the primordial Egg into Yin and Yang in Chinese mythology. The sexual union between Izanagi and Izanami, told in the Kojiki of Japanese mythos. The dissection of Ao and Po in Polynesian mythology.



None of which mention the collision of different dimensions, nor use string theory!

quote:

Several millennia before the discovery of the cell.



Yet not several millenniums before the "discovery" of submission, or hierarchy, all of which serve to explain the caste system.

You assume that because there is a hierarchy, it means it explained cellular behavior, while ignoring the fact that concept of hierarchy existed before the caste system!

quote:

This implies a psychological and spiritual insight that is far superior to today's eating-contest culture of technology and 'progress,' of which the majority of its participants cannot even pump their own gas, much less understand the mechanics of the universe.

Correct me if I'm wrong but by, "Every myth on the face of the planet has a corresponding psychological conflict that still holds metaphorical prevalence today.", you mean, in other words, that myths still hold prevalence in today's world.

How the hell does that show spiritual insight?

quote:

First of all, you're wrong - it was, indeed, perfect, as any Stonehenge historian will tell you.

1. "Perfection" is subjective.

2. The alignment was 100% mathematically correct, to my understanding.

quote:

Second of all, it was not merely alignment with the solstice and equinox that made it impressive - though the fact that two-hundred ton stones were moved over 150 miles in exact precision with the solstice by what modern society describes as 'loin-cloth wearing savages' IS impressive enough in my book.

However, a study of one of the inner circles inside Stonehenge shows a diamter of 1162.6 Pyramid inches (a Pyramid inch, or Hebrew inch, is 11/10,000 of a common inch), making the circumference of that circle 3652.42 Pyramid inches. This value - 3652.42 - is equal to the amount of days in a Solar year times ten: 365.242.

To connect this point to another point, those two above-mentioned values - 1162.6 P.inches and 3652.42 P.inches - are also the EXACT dimensions of the Egyptian aurora and the dimensions of the Great Pyramid.



Yet, the recent discovery of a stone, next to the Heel stone refutes any notion that the Heel Stone was a marker. It is now believed that the "Heel Stone" coupled with the stone next to it, simply served as a corridor of sorts, where the sun light entered.

In any case, all of that points to mathematical and scientific might, not spirituality.

That's it, Wolf? No arguments or valid refutations of any of the points made? Just stubborn, pouting baby tantrums in defiance of rules and responsibility, huh?

I don't have time to deal with children throwing fits. Go watch the MTV Video Music Awards or American Gladiators, or masturbate to Avril Lavigne. I have much more important, relevant, and superior topics to address, and I can't waste my time entertaining the rants of indignant kids like yourself.

1. It being "mathematically perfect", which is completely subjective, does not in any way shape or form suggest any spiritual connection. It suggests only mathematical understanding, which in turn suggests reasoning. Nothing spiritual.

Mathematical understanding and reasoning which performs two separate yet important functions:

1. To invalidate the claim of Freethinkers 'R Us that says that men in primordial times did not understand god.

2. To orient the people involved to higher spiritual truths.

How could you claim that "aliens" giving them the information, is in anyway spiritual or religious? If anything, it is scientific.

Because science certainly has proven aliens exist, right?

The expansion of the universe does not refer to "creation" and "destruction" in any general sense. The expansion, and contraction, will eventually lead to it, yet the expansion itself does not serve the purpose of explaining creation or destruction.

The origins of the universe, and its perception of occurring in cycles, is a recent scientific discovery, yet by no means a new concept. The ULTIMATE expansion and contraction of the universe, which leads to its creation and destruction, is the rhythmic breathing of Brahma.

None of which mention the collision of different dimensions, nor use string theory!

Inconsequential to the point at hand. All creation myths imply a union or separation of opposites, allegorical to either the formation of the original singularity, or its catalystic expansion. The fact that the words "string theory" or "atomic particles" are not used is irrelevant.

You assume that because there is a hierarchy, it means it explained cellular behavior, while ignoring the fact that concept of hierarchy existed before the caste system!

You missed the point, and that may be my fault. The caste system, at its advent, was explained on the same scale as the anatomical hierarchy of the body: metabolic processes over the organelles as Vaishyas are to Sudras, organic cooperation leading to the formation of the organism over metabolic processes as Ksatriyas over Vaishyas, and the will of the being over the organism as Brahmans over Ksatriyas.

Thus indicating a significant source of knowledge concerning the anatomy of the body - a knowledge that, according to the original poster, did not exist.

...myths still hold prevalence in today's world.

How the hell does that show spiritual insight?

Because, once again, the complex mechanics of daily life are, according to the original poster, incomprehensible to archaic man.

1. "Perfection" is subjective.

2. The alignment was 100% mathematically correct, to my understanding.

Thus, being perfect from a mathematical standpoint.

Yet, the recent discovery of a stone, next to the Heel stone refutes any notion that the Heel Stone was a marker. It is now believed that the "Heel Stone" coupled with the stone next to it, simply served as a corridor of sorts, where the sun light entered.

A fact that I do not refute, but is ultimately insignificant in comparison to the original statement concerning the fact that archaic man did not have the technology that we could use to BARELY reconstruct something of this mathematical caliber.

In any case, all of that poits to mathematical and scientific might, not spirituality.

I will address this a final time, only for the fact that it requires to be understood: the mathematical and scientific might to which you refer was hypothesized to be impossible by the original poster, and was a point I chose to address. Also, these mathematical calculations are only applicable to spiritual, religious grounds, such as Stonehenge and the Pyramids, which shows a devotional enthusiasm to their respective spiritualities.

If you're interpreting this whole series of posts to be an attempt to prove the existence of otherworldly truths, I never intended it to be that way. That's an entirely different discussion altogether, for which I invite you to make a corresponding thread, although that's been done several billion times on this forum.

[EDIT: typo]

[This message has been edited by Tyrant (edited 10-20-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

I will address this a final time, only for the fact that it requires to be understood: the mathematical and scientific might to which you refer was hypothesized to be impossible by the original poster, and was a point I chose to address. Also, these mathematical calculations are only applicable to spiritual, religious grounds, such as Stonehenge and the Pyramids, which shows a devotional enthusiasm to their respective spiritualities.

If you're interpreting this whole series of posts to be an attempt to prove the existence of otherworldly truths, I never intended it to be that way. That's an entirely different discussion altogether, for which I invite you to make a corresponding thread, although that's been done several billion times on this forum.

Ah, then I misunderstood the point you're trying to make.

Should've been more clear. My fault entirely. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

posted by Tyrant:



That's it, Wolf? No arguments or valid refutations of any of the points made? Just stubborn, pouting baby tantrums in defiance of rules and responsibility, huh?



.

* You were making points? Sorry for the confusion, I mistook your post(s) as manic ranting.(you sound so familiar, I just can't put my finger on the poster you remind me of.)

.



.

tyrant:

"I don't have time to deal with children throwing fits. Go watch the MTV Video Music Awards or American Gladiators, or masturbate to Avril Lavigne. I have much more important, relevant, and superior topics to address, and I can't waste my time entertaining the rants of indignant kids like yourself."

.



.



* Wrong on all accounts, Projection is not profiling..

I like MSNBC, History channel, and National Geographic.

Funny how you are so well versed in "popular" culture. Just gave it up, didn't you.



.

.

I see you've yet to learn the weakness of ad hominem arguments. Tsk, tsk.

You do appear to have some knowledge of religion, I'll give you that, but your tactics of name calling and flaming are impotent, and stale. They will not garner a modicum of respect in this forum.



I bid you farewell, that is, until you post something worthy of discussion.





[This message has been edited by WolfinSheepsClothing (edited 10-21-2004).]

Hahaha!

The ignorant fool had best be silent

When he moves among other men,

No one will know what a nit-wit he is

Until he begins to talk;

No one knows less what a nit-wit he is

Than the man who talks too much.

You oppose senselessness in my posts, little one? Prove your worth. Let's hear the treasured wisdom to which you so boisterously imply. Prove me wrong on all the counts of an argument never intended for your eyes.

I'll be waiting patiently.

Hahaha!

The ignorant fool had best be silent

When he moves among other men,

No one will know what a nit-wit he is

Until he begins to talk;

No one knows less what a nit-wit he is

Than the man who talks too much.

.



* More copy/paste bullshit? Or just honest introspection kidiot?



.

You oppose senselessness in my posts, little one? Prove your worth. Let's hear the treasured wisdom to which you so boisterously imply. Prove me wrong on all the counts of an argument never intended for your eyes.



.



*I'm glad to see i've convinced you of the senselessness of your posts.

Firstly, you would need to make an argument, then, I will prove it wrong for you, provided it is wrong.

You may get lucky, and be right. That's how it works junior.

.

I'll be waiting patiently.



* Patience is supposedly a virtue.



.

__________________________________________________ ____________-

Keep flaming me cunt, and I'll keep responding until I tire of your weak method.

I will leave you with a little copy/paste bullshit of my own:

"At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid." -- Nietzsche

... still waiting.

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

... still waiting.



For puberty?

... still waiting.

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

... still waiting.



Have faith, gravity works in mysterious ways.

I think it's pretty obvious, your original post has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

You are just displaying your juvenile angst at my calling it copy/paste bullshit.

Get over it.

... still waiting.

http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/rolleyes.gif)

Wolf may not be, but Tyrant: YOU ARE BETTER THAN THIS. (sorry Wolf, but I haven't seen too much better of you than what you are displaying here. I know you are capable of more, you just don't do it. Time constraints ?)

Time out...both of you ! http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

About a year ago I decided that believing in No God, One God, Three Gods in One or believing in all the Gods and Goddesses ever conceived, all made just about the same amount of sense. So I choose to believe in all the gods and goddesses and talk about them like they are there, even if I'm most certainly wrong. What is important is to not worry too much about it, or many other things for that matter, and do something productive like read book on Texas Holdem or court a pretty girl - scratch that - several pretty girls (and a few ugly ones too...equal opportunity and all that).

Sure...don't worry too much about your eternal existence.

Doesn't matter if you burn, or if you float !

Why are you so concerned with saving his soul?... Jesus came and did that, and you are no son of God...

If you are typical of this "Paradise" then I would rather go to hell with Einstein, Galileo, Sagan, & Twain, and have a decent fucking conversation for my eternity than hear about the Christian bullshit I withdraw from on Earth… I cringe at the thought I would sell out my one chance to meet these great scientists and authors to have a condo in heaven next to Jessica Simpson…

Tell your crones to stop knocking on my door; I don’t mind being punished with fire for using my god given gift to read science journals…

Axiom, right on. I've already talked with Satan and he said that Einstin has created an unlimited energy source in Hell, so no one has to work and everything is free. Things are kind of Communistic down there, and that sucks, but hey, what can you expect from a kind hearted dictator? Anyway, Hell is littered with Coffee Shops and Great Philosophers and they hold debates on Tuesday and Thursday nights and the local Hell's Kitchen.

Anyway, look forward to seeing you there.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Sure...don't worry too much about your eternal existence.

Doesn't matter if you burn, or if you float !

im rather interested in learning how you possesed this power to judge people in this life time or in the here after?

wont you share?

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

Sure...don't worry too much about your eternal existence.

Doesn't matter if you burn, or if you float !



Why should I concern myself with a concept that is predicated upon the innate fear, of the average person, of death? Out of the fear of death, Heaven was created. In order to impose control on the simple minded, Hell was created. I am neither simple minded, nor afraid of death, therefore I need neither a belief in Heaven or Hell, as they serve no purpose. Furthermore, I am bothered by the implication that Life, on this here beautiful earth, is of only transitory importance compared to this imagined afterlife. Being that this is all any of us KNOW, we would be remiss not to take it with the utmost seriousness and instead of rejoicing at the doom and gloom of death and the frightening of simple minded people with the concept of eternal damnation, we might take it upon ourselves to acquire a spirituality that uplifts the Soul of the people and reconnects them with the elements of their existence and help them to require a connection with their instincts. The Christians fear and condemn the only tangible God - Nature.

Sempre Solipsist:

Clever name, by the way.

About a year ago I decided that believing in No God, One God, Three Gods in One or believing in all the Gods and Goddesses ever conceived, all made just about the same amount of sense. So I choose to believe in all the gods and goddesses and talk about them like they are there, even if I'm most certainly wrong. What is important is to not worry too much about it, or many other things for that matter, and do something productive like read book on Texas Holdem or court a pretty girl - scratch that - several pretty girls (and a few ugly ones too...equal opportunity and all that).

Simply acknowledging that an ATM exists won't put money in my pocket; I have to go to it in order to get my money.

Similarly, simply accepting the possibility of God will have no affect on the eternal outcome of the condition - and destiny - of the soul.

I address the following fundamental points:

<OL TYPE=1>

<LI>The assumption that Heaven and Hell was born out of fear and control;

<LI>The opposition against the idea of the 'beautiful earth' as being impermanent;

<LI>The statement that what people ultimately 'know' is the senses;

<LI>The idea of uplifting the Soul and reconnecting them with the elements of their existence or their instincts as being synonymous;

<LI>The only tangible God being Nature, implying its the one to which we should bow.</OL>

1. Concerning Heaven and Hell

Heaven, as far as just about any religion is concerned, is not necessarily a place of paradise and eternal satisfaction, but a state of highest spiritual being. Hell, likewise, is its opposite: chthonic, earthly iron scrap, base sensations, and pure biological impulses.

2. Concerning Beauty and Immortality

Just as a woman's beauty is acknowledged in a very limited time period, so does the earth's beauty eventual fade. The only thing worth aspiring to, as every arcane religion admittedly concludes, is the set of timeless principles that do not fade away, change with context, or separate from the fundamental consciousness in all humanity of what is right and wrong.

3. Concerning Reality and Perception

I've said this several times, but since this is the first conversation we've ever had, I will repeat it: most people that have a legitimate belief in something do so because of their direct experience of it. No amount of text books or empiricist reasoning can budge that fundamental knowledge of the suprahuman and supranatural.

4. Concerning the Holy and the Evil

Consider a person who is being attacked by another person. A person's Instinct in the circumstance of persecution says, "Survive!" The empty, sterile, contingent Impulse linked directly with earthly drives says, "Run!" A person endowed with genuine Spirit, which thus manifests in action, says, "Fight!"

The instinct is the goal from a physical plane. The impulse is exactly that: a person's initial reaction to a circumstance, which may or may not be for the ultimate good. A person who understands righteousness every waking day knows what needs to be undertaken for whatever circumstance he faces, and knows the best to way to achieve it.

Instinct and Spirit are fundamentally unrelated, and are in fact opposed to one another. Their reaction to one another is like two magnets of similar polarity: in the presence of one, the other all but vanishes, as though it were compelled to do so.

5. Concerning God and Nature.

Linking to the above mentioned ideas, Nature is not a tangible God, but only a manifestation of itself in the physical world. A painting cannot be called Leonardo Da Vinci, but the painting can be called a work by Leonardo Da Vinci: it is an expression of his talent made manifest. Likewise, this world merely contains effects of the ethereal world. As Julius Evola once said, "Nothing occurs in this world that does not originate in the other."

Good thought process, though; similar to mine at a certain point.

[This message has been edited by Tyrant (edited 10-24-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Tyrant (edited 10-24-2004).]