Christ clearly came to destroy Judaism and had nothing but contempt for the Jews. He rejected their laws and customs, called them the spawn of Satan, and basically condemned them to hell. How can anyone deny that the Jews were directly responsible for the death of Christ when Christ himself directly blames the Jews prior to his death? There is no Judeo-Christian religion, tradition, or anything else. There is a war between God and the children of Satan (Jews) that God will win, but nothing else. To speak of a Judeo-Christian tradition, is like speaking of a Satanic-Christian tradition.

listen first you gotta back up what you say.

second if you motherfuckers want a war we will 0wn your asses

Considering that he broke many laws and acted politically incorrect, that's exatlty what he did.

I can be wrong, but I have the impression that previous prophets did the same thing(acting idioticly, being rejected by everyone etc.)

I can be wrong, I got the idea from Spengler :/

You are a dumbass. Have you even studied this issue at all? I have. I've taken classes on it. I've gone to lectures by Professors with Ph.D's in theology and such, and this idea is crap. It is accepted that there exists a Judeo-Christian tradition for many reasons. At first the jews and christians couldn't hardly be separated because they were so alike, then people had to become jews first to become christians. So many christian traditions and customs came from judaism that it's not even funny. Not only that, but christians use the Hebrew scriptures as well.

Matthew the gospel writer was a Jew. He also paints a different Jesus from Mark who wrote the first gospel.

Just go read up on this before making stupid assumptions.

edit: matthew wasn't a pharisee, paul was, thanks for the correction digital.

[This message has been edited by Fanglekai (edited 10-15-2004).]

Jesus' disciple Simon was part of the Zealots, a guerilla political movement that fought against Roman occupation of Judea, stating that Israel would only be ruled by an ancestor of David.

Jesus grew up teaching other Rabbis about Judaism in the temples. Every part of his existence was Jewish from beginning to end.

Their origins were identical. The problem arose with Christ's perceived blasphemy by Jewish leaders.

quote:Originally posted by Fanglekai:

You are a dumbass. Have you even studied this issue at all? I have. I've taken classes on it. I've gone to lectures by Professors with Ph.D's in theology and such, and this idea is crap. It is accepted that there exists a Judeo-Christian tradition for many reasons. At first the jews and christians couldn't hardly be separated because they were so alike, then people had to become jews first to become christians. So many christian traditions and customs came from judaism that it's not even funny. Not only that, but christians use the Hebrew scriptures as well.

Matthew the gospel writer was a Jew. He was a pharisee too. He also paints a different Jesus from Mark who wrote the first gospel.

Just go read up on this before making stupid assumptions.

You statements are inaccurate...

The Gentiles did NOT have to become Jews in order to receive Christ's salvation. Read Romans, and you will see the whole story.

One of the first divisions of the church occurred over this argument: do gentiles have to become Jews in order to receive the salvation of Christ ? (another issue was over circumcision, but that is a different topic entirely)

Paul, who had been a Pharisee for most of his life, said that they didn't.

Others disputed that, and the church broke off into two different churches.

I happen to believe Paul, since God trusted Him enough to allow him SEVERAL books in the Bible. The man was a genius, and divinely annointed.

MATTHEW WAS NOT A PHARISEE. Paul was.

MATTHEW WAS A TAX COLLECTOR, HATED BY HIS PEOPLE FOR HIS ALLEGIANCE TO CAESAR.

The different perceptions in the Bible only differ slightly. The actual events are the same. The viewpoint is most certainly different, since they were different people.

I don't know what classes you have gone to, but either they were incorrect, or you weren't listening.

Try reading the Bible without having someone else tell you what it says. It is far more enlightening that way.

Your conclusion also has nothing to do with the point you were trying to make, which is that many of the Christian customs and practices stem from Judaism.

I don't see why this is an issue of debate. Christ was a Jew, so it is definitive to say that Christianity is based around Jewish customs.

Also, consider that Christianity has been twisted and reformed, and manipulated several hundred times in the past 2,000 years.

quote:Originally posted by The Crusader:

Their origins were identical. The problem arose with Christ's perceived blasphemy by Jewish leaders.

Yes, because Jesus taught the people to follow God, and not man.

That teaching took all power and authority away from the Pharisees and the Saducees.

This pissed them off. They had complete control over the masses, using fear and condemnation.

They forced people to bathe in a community pool before entering the temple to pray, but in order to bathe, they had to pay money. The Jews couldn't claim that they had just bathed prior to coming to the temple, they HAD to bathe in front of the Pharisees in order to "prove" their cleanliness.

That is just one example of their ability to control.

So, Jesus never truly broke any laws. He taught against breaking the laws of the land. The Bible is clear when it says that we are to obey our leaders.

What he did do, was tear down Jewish orthodoxy. He broke their traditions, and ripped the scales from their eyes. They were forced to see the fallacy of their ways, and that always hurts.

I am agreeing with you here, just to clarify. I am simply expounding on what you already said.

You're an idiot. Christ rejected jewish laws and customs not because they were jewish but because the majority of people are morons, and the vast majority of laws and customs are limitings. Jesus was about a limitless love.

The Romans were directly responsible for Jesus' death anyway.

I have read a lot of the bible, and I know this issue, but I knew that you would come and give the long posts that I don't care to write, so I gave a few arguments.

You're also right about them not having to become Jews and how it was a huge issue, I just didn't care to elaborate on it in my previous post.

I'm a long time reader, about 3 years now, but I don't post much.

Lastly, forgive my early morning debate skills.

quote:Originally posted by CBaoth:



second if you motherfuckers want a war we will 0wn your asses

"Rabbi Kahane coined the phrase "Never Again" which did not mean that a Holocaust could never happen. It meant that never again would Jews stand idly by while their brothers cry out for their help."

Never again.

quote:Originally posted by Brent:

Christ clearly came to destroy Judaism and had nothing but contempt for the Jews. He rejected their laws and customs, called them the spawn of Satan, and basically condemned them to hell. How can anyone deny that the Jews were directly responsible for the death of Christ when Christ himself directly blames the Jews prior to his death? There is no Judeo-Christian religion, tradition, or anything else. There is a war between God and the children of Satan (Jews) that God will win, but nothing else. To speak of a Judeo-Christian tradition, is like speaking of a Satanic-Christian tradition.

damn, jews always have to create problems, you guys dont get enough from your palenstine friends? want to start with christians now?

Jesus was Jewish, and was pro-people. The Jews he mentioned weren't the Jewish people but rather those who call themselves Jews but aren't. Those who worship money, and power. They were puppets of Rome who helped the Romans persecute the Jews. Just as kapos would be used much later on.

He never claimed to destroy Judaism, nor did he want to, the words ascribed to him meant more than anything to destroy corruption.

Yes, Rabbi Kahane had a point. Fight, fight, and fight. Don't be passive, object it and take up honor and strength. It's shameful when many Jews just stood there and let it happen. Maybe they thought it wouldn't end up that way, but I sure as hell wouldn't be hoarded into a death camp while alive. Also do not forget righteous gentiles, and the 5 million others who died.

[This message has been edited by Keltoiberserker (edited 10-15-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Keltoiberserker (edited 10-15-2004).]

Prove to me the holocost happened. Reconstructions of gas chambers in europe don't cut it. Niether do sniveling, whining jews.

At most 50-100k jews were killed but I doubt even that many. If 6million were really killed we wouldent have so many silversteins begging for "holocost reperations". When jesus was crucified the temple broke open and that was the symbol of the jews power.

I'll give this a day, but I'm closing this down unless something intelligent happens to it tomorrow.

Cheers,

Lost

See, you guys are ruining it.

Stop being pigs, and stick to the subject at hand.

You are getting off the topic of Religious Debate, and turning this into a bigot party.

GROW UP.

quote:Originally posted by Fanglekai:

I have read a lot of the bible, and I know this issue, but I knew that you would come and give the long posts that I don't care to write, so I gave a few arguments.

You're also right about them not having to become Jews and how it was a huge issue, I just didn't care to elaborate on it in my previous post.

I'm a long time reader, about 3 years now, but I don't post much.

Lastly, forgive my early morning debate skills.

You have been reading it for three years, and still don't know that Matthew was a tax collector, and NOT a Pharisee ? Huh. *perplexed*

I forgive you, but that just didn't make any sense.

Since Brent hasn't returned since he made this bold statement, I don't think it should remain any longer. He's obviously been proven wrong.

huh? i'm a 3 year reader of Totse, sorry if you misunderstood my statement.

You should delete it LC, these kinds of threads are nothing but trash.

Worse than the you-know-what threads I hate.

quote:Originally posted by NightVision:

Prove to me the holocost happened. Reconstructions of gas chambers in europe don't cut it. Niether do sniveling, whining jews.

At most 50-100k jews were killed but I doubt even that many. If 6million were really killed we wouldent have so many silversteins begging for "holocost reperations". When jesus was crucified the temple broke open and that was the symbol of the jews power.

I will humour you. www.nizkor.org (http://www.nizkor.org)

And prove to me it didn't happen. Back up your statement.

It's weird because I know so many people that have been through the holocaust, I've been back to Auschwitz with people who remember it so distinctly. These are people I personally know, hell some are family. These aren't random people these are people I fucking know. And you tell me that all of them are lying? Fuck you.

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:



Jesus grew up teaching other Rabbis about Judaism in the temples. Every part of his existence was Jewish from beginning to end.

Right on.

I apologize for letting this stay open so long.

I was in Vegas having a good and sinfull time.

As a quick addendum, my personal opinion, and before I close this thread:

You, sir, are a tool. Read a book.

Cheers,

Lost