This thread is designed to accomadate questions pertaining to Christianity that I hope will help will eventually help alleviate the anti-christian sentiment in this forum.

So ask away.

I consider myself to be open and understanding of Christiany, first of all. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif) I do have questions however with the commandment that speaks of worshipping no god before him..... I remember through my readings that some time ago I discovered that in the bible it states something along the lines of.... "Anything that takes time away from worshipping God, is a god" This would therefore mean everyone in our society violates that commandment... Am I missing something here? Thanks.

Great. This is a question that has been left unanswered for a few weeks. Hopefully, you'll have a decent answer:

How can you conciliate there being both an omniscient being (i.e. the Christian god), and 'free-will'?

In case the problem is not immediately evident, an omniscient being must be able to know what I will choose tomorrow morning. He must know whether I'm going to choose decision A or decision B. But, if he already knows what I am going to choose, if he already knows I'm going to choose A, then I cannot possibly choose B. If I do, that would mean he is not omniscient in the first place.

quote:Originally posted by Ezratal:

I consider myself to be open and understanding of Christiany, first of all. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif) I do have questions however with the commandment that speaks of worshipping no god before him..... I remember through my readings that some time ago I discovered that in the bible it states something along the lines of.... "Anything that takes time away from worshipping God, is a god" This would therefore mean everyone in our society violates that commandment... Am I missing something here? Thanks.

I think that basically anything that takes a higher priority than worshipping God is in essence worshipping the worldy aspects of our existence

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

Great. This is a question that has been left unanswered for a few weeks. Hopefully, you'll have a decent answer:

How can you conciliate there being both an omniscient being (i.e. the Christian god), and 'free-will'?

In case the problem is not immediately evident, an omniscient being must be able to know what I will choose tomorrow morning. He must know whether I'm going to choose decision A or decision B. But, if he already knows what I am going to choose, if he already knows I'm going to choose A, then I cannot possibly choose B. If I do, that would mean he is not omniscient in the first place.

The usually analogy is that if we were not offered free will then our love would be forced.

I do not possess ample intellectual capacity nor linguistical prowess to tangibly manifest Gods inexonorable power and glory for it truely transcends my factultys and the utilization thereof

quote:Originally posted by Disciple:

The usually analogy is that if we were not offered free will then our love would be forced.

I do not possess ample intellectual capacity nor linguistical prowess to tangibly manifest Gods inexonorable power and glory for it truely transcends my factultys and the utilization thereof

'The faculties' you're using are the same the bible uses. Therefore, you do not need anything else. If the bible is a perfect document, inspired by god himself, then those faculties are perfect as well. If the faculties are not perfect, then neither is the bible.

Which is it? Is the bible perfect, and therefore by default, so are the faculties; or are the faculties imperfect, and therefore so is the bible?

quote:Originally posted by Rust:

'The faculties' you're using are the same the bible uses. Therefore, you do not need anything else. If the bible is a perfect document, inspired by god himself, then those faculties are perfect as well. If the faculties are not perfect, then neither is the bible.

Which is it? Is the bible perfect, and therefore by default, so are the faculties; or are the faculties imperfect, and therefore so is the bible?

By faculties I am referring to my brain.

The Bible is the infallible word of God.

Fine, I'll deal with that in a later time. Could you answer this, then?:

Is the bible perfect? If so, how can it proceed to claim the existence of both an omniscient being, and free-will, without explaining this paradox? It is either lacking in an explanation of an obvious logical paradox and thus arguably imperfect, or it is fallible? Which is it?

I believe the Bible cant articulate that in a way we can comprehend.

Even If the bible is the perfect word of god, that doesn't mean that it's understood correctly.

I've got one...

Its said that Adam and Eve are the fist Humans, created in God's image. The “Voice of God” who realises that Adam and Eve have sewen leaves (Because of embarrassment) over their private parts confronts Adam and Eve. The only way they would have know they are naked is because they ate the forbidden fruit and as a consequence are kicked out of the Garden...

1) God is all knowing; He would know that they were going to eat the Forbidden fruit. Why would he bother creating the garden in the first place just to destroy it. Does he just like destroying his creations?. Or is he really not all knowing and there was a chance that he wouldn’t have to destroy it…

2) Being that all Humans on Earth originate from these two people and would know that they are naked, would the African Tribes, Australian Aborigines, and Amazonian Indians (Just to mention a few) still walk naked in front of each other including Women and Children with no embarrassment… They should know they're naked... Does this suggest that Adam and Eve aren’t the original people on Earth and clothing is not a result of eating forbidden fruit. Or does it suggest that this story is made up by the Western Civilizations where clothes were invented?…

I have some more, but will get back to you…



[This message has been edited by Axiom (edited 10-22-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Disciple:

I believe the Bible cant articulate that in a way we can comprehend.

Of course it could since the work is inspired by an omnipotent and omniscient being. It can do whatever it wants it to do. If it cannot, then either god isn't omnipotent, omniscient, or both! What is it?

You also didn't answer the question. Is it perfect, or is it not? If it doesn't articulate it, then it arguably isn't perfect.

quote:By faculties I am referring to my brain. The Bible is the infallible word of God.

Remember that I said I would deal with this another time...

That's circular logic. To claim that the bible is infallible is to claim that the paradox I gave is not a paradox at all, and to do that, is to have an answer to that paradox, which you certainly do not have.

So, you cannot claim the bible is infallible when there is an unanswered paradox in the way. You also cannot claim it is infallible, and solely using the bible itself to prove that infallibility. That's even more circular logic.

[This message has been edited by Rust (edited 10-22-2004).]

Just wondering if you have an answer for me?

Ok, maybe an easier question…

During the great floods of Noah; God killed his creations because he was unhappy with them not following his virtues. He placed a rainbow in the sky to remind us as a promise he’d never destroy earthly creatures again…

Why then did he put Earth next to a Sun, which will one day, run out of energy and swell into a super-nova engulfing all of Earth and most of our solar system… Killing the Earth he promised would sustain forever…

Just playing Devil's Advocate here for a moment:

In Genesis chapter 9, the Christian god's covenant with Noah is that never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. This means that the Christian god is free to come up with other ways to destroy all life.

But a bit more seriously, Jesus is supposedly going to come back before the Sun swallows us all. But who knows what the hell "soon" means anyway when it's in the Bible?

quote:Originally posted by Axiom:



Why then did he put Earth next to a Sun, which will one day, run out of energy and swell into a super-nova engulfing all of Earth and most of our solar system? Killing the Earth he promised would sustain forever?

Forget the theological side of that, you have just ignored the greater part of astrophysics. The sun will not blow up, it will expand into a red giant and engulf the inner planets which is a lot less than one present of the total size of the solar system. And a star does not expand into a super nova, a white or red giant of about 1.6 times the mass of the sun literally explodes.

This is not my field... I thought Supernova was the term used to decribe the phases of a dead star. The wording is wrong but I was hoping Disciple after opening this thread would reply using bibical evidence...

The point remains, Earth will not be here one day...

As Rust said, there is an obvious logical fuckup when its comes to God knowing the future, and free will.

There IS actually one group of Christians that sorta resolved it - calvanists. http://www.totse.com/bbs/Forum15/HTML/003117.html

quote:Originally posted by Axiom:

During the great floods of Noah; God killed his creations because he was unhappy with them not following his virtues. He placed a rainbow in the sky to remind us as a promise he’d never destroy earthly creatures again…



Not sure what version you are reading in mine God just says he will not destroy the Earth with water again.