People are raped, children molested and similar crimes. It's just an example, but it's not like murder where the suffering just ends or someone gets robbed and they eventually re-earn what they lose.

Can God really forgive these crimes? I certainly can't.

(I'm sorry about the sporadic post, but i'm in a rush)

No, he can't. But he can save the priests who rape little boys.

He can if you got a gun.

So you're saying that sins where the hurt remains psychologically (rape) are unforgivable, but sins where the hurt ends (murder) is forgivable.

Fucking idiot.

Not sure about that whole God/Sin bit - However!

I would like to take the chance to forgive the sins of all of those people that don't believe in sin; by the power of nonsense and chaos, your sins are forgiven, for they never existed. Now, stop being such a loser and go buy someone a beer!

i have read in the bible that god forgives us similar to the way we forgive others.

maybe you should forgive more.

God can forgive all sins except ONE: disbelief in His existence.

The Bible clearly states that this is the only unforgivable sin.

The reasoning behind that is that ALL sin is equal. A little white lie, or coveting some guy's Porsche is just as bad as murdering someone.

The degrees of atrocity are determined by MAN, not God.

We are not innately equipped with the emotional divinity required to unconditionally forgive those that transgress against their fellow man.

That's why being a Christian is so hard...God tells us that He can inspire us to forgive (70 x 7), but we must ALLOW Him to do such a work in our lives, which is a nearly impossible feat.

By the way, GOD CAN DO ANYTHING. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

By the way, GOD CAN DO ANYTHING. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

According to you, it cannot forgive the sin of us not believing in it. What gives?

Also, I look forward to your reply in the free will thread.

EDIT: Typo.



[This message has been edited by R_I (edited 10-27-2004).]

No, He CAN forgive it. He has said that He won't.

Free will ? *mumbles*

Okay...I'll try to get back to it. *lol*

Sorry !

There is no forgiveness of sin.

But you can usually make it up to her with a nice dinner and some flowers.

I'm sorry I fail to see how someone who dedicates they're entire life to making the world a better place but doesn't believe in God is a worse creature then a completely sinful jerkoff who's born again and believes in God still does bad shit but goes to church and asks for repentence. I mean, come on. Imagine you're God (or imagine you're a teacher if you don't want to blaspheme with such a thing) who's better; someone who earnestly strives hard and makes things better, does good charitable work, but ignores you....or some suck up teacher's pet who does shit behind your back (well they think it's behind your back) and does the pouty "I'm sawwwy" routine?

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

No, He CAN forgive it. He has said that He won't.

Alright, fair enough. Now, can the Christian god sin if it chooses to or does its perfect nature prevent it from doing so? Is there any merit in the biblical claim that the Christian god cannot lie? If so, does this mean that the Christian god cannot indeed do everything? Also, can it do anything which violates logic? Can it both exist and not exist at the same time, making both Christians and atheists correct?

Well, hopefully you don't turn out to be god.

Cheers,

Lost

quote:Originally posted by R_I:

Can it both exist and not exist at the same time, making both Christians and atheists correct?



wow, good question. i guess it can, the only difference would be that atheists are still going to hell. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Sempre Solipsist:

There is no forgiveness of sin.

But you can usually make it up to her with a nice dinner and some flowers.



LOL that's just a temporary fix, she will still remember it and it could still be held against you, except in a quart of slaw.

the guy that said "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" might have been wrong, but i think he may have been close to the mark... but dont tell my ex-wife i said that, but my present wife would laugh, but ive heard stories about ways she got even with her ex. LOL scary LOL

God can do what God wants.

This is not your world, these are not your laws.

He can do whatever the fuck he wants to.

quote:Originally posted by I_Like_Traffic_Lights:

So you're saying that sins where the hurt remains psychologically (rape) are unforgivable, but sins where the hurt ends (murder) is forgivable.

Fucking idiot.

I'd tell you to blow it out your ass, but my dick is in the way.

well, hello, i am new here....

I have another one,

Can God create a large piece of rock, so heavy, but so heavy that not even Him would be able to lift it? Can He or not?

And as far as I remember, the only unforgivable sin, according to the Bible, is to blaspheme against the Holy Ghost, and not disbelieving in God.

But let's say you're right. I still can't figure out how this god can save people like Hitler, Bin Laden and Bush (why not?) when he can't (or won't) save good people that fight for a better world, but don't believe in Him. Wasn't Thomas Jefferson atheist? (I am not sure) So if he was, it is more possible for Hitler to be in heaven then it is for Jefferson? Even if Jeff wasn't atheist, there is plenty of good atheist people who can't be saved, yet Hitler can. Can Gandhi be saved? He didn't believe in the Christian god. I am sorry but this god doesn't have a good sense of justice since He finds it is more important to worship Him than being a good person at all. What people are better for the world?

quote:Originally posted by ubermutant:

I'd tell you to blow it out your ass, but my dick is in the way.

Way to prove you're not a fucking idiot.

Fucking idiot.

[This message has been edited by I_Like_Traffic_Lights (edited 10-28-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

God can forgive all sins except ONE: disbelief in His existence.



Damn, you beat me to it, Digi.

I wonder, who is really to blame for disbelief in the Christian god? Before creating this world, the Christian god knew perfectly well the amount of evidence that each person who would ever exist would need to believe in it. I suppose then that it knew that some people would not get that required evidence and thus be damned but it went on to create this world anyway. How can it then blame them for not believing?

erm...have you been living under a rock for the past 2000 years? there is no god, dumbass. religion is bullshit

quote:Originally posted by Eil:

wow, good question. i guess it can, the only difference would be that atheists are still going to hell. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

Yup, and christians are still going to be a rotten corpse in a box, with nothing else.

Looks like il meet hitler in heavan and we can talk about how he should have attacked america insted of opening up a second front in the war. jefferson can rot for all i care. btw i think pagans can get into heavin due to the good samaritan. he was proably a foller of astaru or the roman parathon.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

By the way, GOD CAN DO ANYTHING. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

This of course has nothing to do with this post, but this point should be brought up. When God created the universe, he created rules that must be abided by, by everything in the universe, and by him as well. He can choose not to follow those rules, but if he does, the whole system comes apart, because he is undoing the unconditional rules of his own word, which were used in the creation. The absolute power of the word of God is the measure of existence. If he were to overturn his word, he would overturn existence, in this sense at the very least. This includes everything from free will to the governing laws. Gods power in this universe, therefore, is in a sense limited to that which is possible within the context of this universe. There are certain things he CAN'T do, without breaking the system. He can't for instance create something heavier than he is able to lift. I invite you to wrap your mind around that one. He could do it I'm sure, if he ignored the fundamental laws of existence (thus overturning his own word, et cetera). It's a paradox, but the best way to explain it is that, in the end, the only thing he is literally incapable of is doing something beyond his abilities.

quote:Originally posted by Sephiroth:

This of course has nothing to do with this post, but this point should be brought up. When God created the universe, he created rules that must be abided by, by everything in the universe, and by him as well.

So God would have to follow the Speed Limit of the Universe, the speed of light? (yes, I know, scientists are debating if we can go faster than that)

That would mean that God could not be omnipresent, it would take him years to get from one point to another.

Yes, I'm being facetious, don't take me too seriously. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

Quote: God can forgive all sins except ONE: disbelief in His existence.

The Bible clearly states that this is the only unforgivable sin."

so surely everyones alright because if they don't believe in him, they don't really care whether they'll be forgiven or not, and if they do believe in him they have nothing to worry about!!!

quote:Originally posted by geekstinkbreath:



so surely everyones alright because if they don't believe in him, they don't really care whether they'll be forgiven or not, and if they do believe in him they have nothing to worry about!!!

No, not really, because from the Christian perspective, if you're not forgiven, you go to Hell.

quote:Originally posted by R_I:

I wonder, who is really to blame for disbelief in the Christian god? Before creating this world, the Christian god knew perfectly well the amount of evidence that each person who would ever exist would need to believe in it. I suppose then that it knew that some people would not get that required evidence and thus be damned but it went on to create this world anyway. How can it then blame them for not believing?

That's why I've always thought that, should their be a god, disbelief would do nothing against you. I figured most religions would be manifestations of the same god, just showing different faces that are more attractive to different people because really, who wants their kids to die horrible deaths?

Me being an atheist kind of disowns me even from that, but it's a nice thought that can keep a God simple and pure.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

God can forgive all sins except ONE: disbelief in His existence.

The Bible clearly states that this is the only unforgivable sin.

The reasoning behind that is that ALL sin is equal. A little white lie, or coveting some guy's Porsche is just as bad as murdering someone.

The degrees of atrocity are determined by MAN, not God.

We are not innately equipped with the emotional divinity required to unconditionally forgive those that transgress against their fellow man.

That's why being a Christian is so hard...God tells us that He can inspire us to forgive (70 x 7), but we must ALLOW Him to do such a work in our lives, which is a nearly impossible feat.

By the way, GOD CAN DO ANYTHING. http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/wink.gif)

How can disbelief in his eistance be a sin? Becuase, acording to a Christian I spoke to, God gives us free will to let him into are lifes and be Christian, or walk away from him and be part of another.

I think Christian's therey on it all is that God can only forgive a sin, no matter how big or small if you want to be forgiven for it.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

No, He CAN forgive it. He has said that He won't.

Which means God is not all-loving.

quote:Originally posted by Red Raven:

Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

No, He CAN forgive it. He has said that He won't.

Which means God is not all-loving.

No, it means that He hasn't forgiven it and wont. You are looking at it from the POV that you know more about justice, honesty and love, than God.

quote:Originally posted by Digital_Savior:

God can forgive all sins except ONE: disbelief in His existence.

The Bible clearly states that this is the only unforgivable sin.



Where can this be found in scripture?

God should be able to forgive disbelief in him.

All we have as proof of god is what other people have told us, there is no solid evidence, and that is why people question it.

People dont question things as much if they can actively witness them with their senses.

if someone cant actively witness god, it is human nature to question its existence, if god made humans in such a form that enables and encourages them to question things, how can the disbelief , resulting from not being able to witness it, be a sin

quote:Originally posted by megalomaniac:

...if god made humans in such a form that enables and encourages them to question things, how can the disbelief , resulting from not being able to witness it, be a sin

This is a bit in line with what you are saying:

This part of the Lord's prayer I find very interesting -

Forgive us our trespasses

as we forgive those who trespass against us

Lead us not into temptation

but deliver us from evil

The first half speaks of what appears to me to be circular forgiveness...only as we forgive are we forgiven...interconnectedness as one...

Are we 'lead' into temptation with the expectations of also being delivered out of it?

So...why punish us for what we are made to be???? It is confounding to me...

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

No, it means that He hasn't forgiven it and wont. You are looking at it from the POV that you know more about justice, honesty and love, than God.

The Hebrew God has a bastardized, bronze-age method of justice that mirrors the values the people possessed during his invention and subsequent Christian reconstruction.

quote:Originally posted by ubermutant:



Can God really forgive these crimes? I certainly can't.

(I'm sorry about the sporadic post, but i'm in a rush)

Well, that's why you are not God. Seriously, in the first place, God loves everyone unconditionally.

In the second place, "sin" is a myth invented by the priesthood as another way to keep the faithful in line. God is not Santa Claus, he does not keep a list of who's naughty and nice, does not reward and punish. He just loves, and creates.

He gave us free will, which is why some people do shitty things. In the long run, nothing that we do to each other really matters, since we all have immortal souls.

quote:Originally posted by ArmsMerchant:

Well, that's why you are not God. Seriously, in the first place, God loves everyone unconditionally.

In the second place, "sin" is a myth invented by the priesthood as another way to keep the faithful in line. God is not Santa Claus, he does not keep a list of who's naughty and nice, does not reward and punish. He just loves, and creates.

He gave us free will, which is why some people do shitty things. In the long run, nothing that we do to each other really matters, since we all have immortal souls.



where do you get this belief from?

Of what god are you referring?

xtreem, some people come up with their own beliefs based on their own reasonings..

quote:Originally posted by megalomaniac:

xtreem, some people come up with their own beliefs based on their own reasonings..



i understand that. And that, in part, is the reason for my question(s).

HE'S FUCKING GOD, HE CAN DO WHATEVER TE HELL HE WANTS!!!!!!!

**G-Fuckin Whiz**

(If He indeed exists...)

:edit:I fucked up my 'bold' text making-

[This message has been edited by Metalligod (edited 11-17-2004).]