If I recall correctly, if we are suppose to remember the sabbath and keep it holy, why did we change it from saturday to sunday? Maybe those 7th day adventists have something right.

the catholic church changed it to sunday when the pagans that worshipped in sunday were around sun-day, day of the sun, they adapted to the culture that was around at the time. but the bible says that god transends time, so it shouldnt matter...

I know, but as usual, I was wondering what the 'legitimate' reason was for changing it was. I'm sure theres a moral reason for doing this, surely there was more reason that that! </sarcasm>

quote:Originally posted by anubisknight:

the catholic church changed it to sunday when the pagans that worshipped in sunday were around sun-day, day of the sun, they adapted to the culture that was around at the time. but the bible says that god transends time, so it shouldnt matter...

I wonder if the word sunday has any reference to the pagan sun god 'Re', i wonder what day they worshiped this sungod.

No, RA is an egyptian god, and this was done in europe

quote:Originally posted by anubisknight:

No, RA is an egyptian god, and this was done in europe

When Constantine legalized Christianity, according to my history teacher, they closed the egyptian temples n killed the priests. Maybe my school just got it wrong?

*not that Constantine did it, it was probably a little while after it because he still had tolerance for them.

[This message has been edited by mixedbloods (edited 10-28-2004).]

that was AFTER the change of sabbath.

quote:Originally posted by anubisknight:

that was AFTER the change of sabbath.

So? My point was that perhaps sunday may have had its origins from this.

well alot of denominations of paganism have a sun god, ra isnt the only.

quote:Originally posted by anubisknight:

well alot of denominations of paganism have a sun god, ra isnt the only.

But the most well known one. I'm not sure wtf were argueng about. Anybody else know a reason for the change besides making it easier for pagans to convert and to help obscure the other religions.

quote:Originally posted by mixedbloods:

I wonder if the word sunday has any reference to the pagan sun god 'Re', i wonder what day they worshiped this sungod.

Yes thats right... people in the middle-east and mediteranean spoke english back then....

quote:No, RA is an egyptian god, and this was done in europe

Not really, any influence of egyptian beliefs had a long time prior to the Council of Nicea to influence xianity. Remember that the Egyptian churches was also involved at the council (not that they'd really be a source for that sort of stuff to come from).

No they didn't speak english, but you think that maybe words from other languages just might have influenced the words in ours?

EDIT: And it might be because thats they worshiped the sun god on sunday, either way you didn't answer the question and provide an alternative explanation.

[This message has been edited by mixedbloods (edited 10-28-2004).]

Ozzy left and was replaced by Dio.

Shame

The sun God would not be Ra because by the Ra was only worshiped for a for a short period in Eygyptian history. That period was way before Jesus, I am not sure but Judaism was probably new too.

<Alt explanation>

The early church developed the practice of meeting early in the morning on the first day of the week. I think the practice came from the first day of the week (i.e. the day after the Sabbath) being the day on which Jesus' tomb was found empty. Therefore, in order to celebrate and appropriate the resurrected Christ, meeting on Sunday became a regular practice of the early church.

The transition to Sunday becoming the observed day of the sabbath came much later, and was a decision made by the RCC. Part of it may have been an anti-semitic thing, but thats just conjecture on my part.

Early christians quite correctly didn't need to observe "the sabbath", but somehow the obligation is routinely forced upon people. Despite what the NT actually says about the matter (Colossians 2).

</alt explanation>

if i remember rightly ...emperor constantien decreed on the 23th of march 325 AD(date maybe a little out..can't be arsed to check) that all should cease their labours on the 'honorable day of the sun' (sunday).

quote:The early church developed the practice of meeting early in the morning on the first day of the week. I think the practice came from the first day of the week (i.e. the day after the Sabbath)

almost right BUT

biblical evidence is extremely clear that the first christians met to worship at sundown on saturday.(the biblical day runs from sunset to sunset).

so yes for once (more by luck than judgement!) the 7th day Adventists were right.

[This message has been edited by jackketch (edited 10-30-2004).]

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

almost right BUT

biblical evidence is extremely clear that the first christians met to worship at sundown on saturday.(the biblical day runs from sunset to sunset).

Talk about nitpicking....

"But they declared that the sum of their guilt or error had amounted only to this, that on an appointed day they had been accustomed to meet before daybreak, and to recite a hymn antiphonally to Christ, as to a god, and to bind themselves by an oath, not for the commission of any crime but to abstain from theft, robbery, adultery and breach of faith and not to deny a deposit when it was claimed. After the conclusion of this ceremony it was their custom to depart and meet again to take food; but it was ordinary and harmless food, and they had ceased this practice after my edict in which, in accordance with your orders, I had forbidden secret societies. I thought it the more necessary, therefore, to find out what truth there was in this by applying torture to two maidservants, who were called deaconesses. But I found nothing but a depraved and extravagant superstition, and I therefore postponed my examination and had recourse to you for consultation. "

-Pliny the Younger, Letters 10.96, to Trajan circa 100-112 AD.

no not nick picking (although like most christians i get very anal about doctrine).

but by the time this was written the 'rot' had already set in.

quote: that on an appointed day they had been accustomed to meet before daybreak, and to recite a hymn antiphonally to Christ, as to a god,

btw if anyone is interested -some theologians reckon that 'hymn' might be john chapter 1 v1+ (in the beginning was the logos etc).

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

no not nick picking (although like most christians i get very anal about doctrine).

but by the time this was written the 'rot' had already set in.



so what? Obviously every christian practice by that stage had become so secular and defiled that it is of little use to us today.

HELLO? John's gospel can be dated to with 10-20 years of that timeframe!

quote:HELLO? John's gospel can be dated to with 10-20 years of that timeframe!

yes and no. robinson and other top theologians argue convincingly that large chunks of John are actually one of the oldest parts of the NT and far earlier than say Mark.

quote:so what? Obviously every christian practice by that stage had become so secular and defiled that it is of little use to us today.

there i would have to agree with you although again there is evidence (can't rememeber the exact dates) that 'original' christianity still survived at that point (please nobody flame for me saying 'original'- i know damn well its a misnomer but it saves getting into a boring debate about the ebionites ect.)

@ inquisitor_11

btw mate you sound like you've had some training? ain't many christians who know about things like pliny.

i studied for the priesthood-you too?

priesthood? lol....no. I'm currently studying economics/development studies. I'm just fairly serious about understanding my faith.

BTW i doubt there is anyone here who knows much about the ebionites and co. But IMO the "original" christianity argument is a complete waste of time and simply comes down to biased conjecture.

I havent read a huge amount of early church writings and was wondering what your opinion of Origen is? Do u feel that his views well represented those of early christians?