I think this belongs here because some people believe that Satan is a god, but how did the number 666 become associated with Satan?

not really sure, it just says so in Revelations, although i think the wording actually says something like 666 is the number of man (at least, that's what it says in the NIV version of the bible)

many ancient texts including sacred ones were written in code... this is because the letters of many ancient alphabets had corresponding numbers... 'a' is 1, 'b' is 2, etc..

also, numerology was commonly practiced back then. it believed that certain numbers have distinct properties. odd numbers are male/aggressive in character, even numbers are female/passive.

combine these two beliefs, and you have a system that believes a person's name has a corresponding number set, and that these numbers reveal the person's nature.

many scholars believe that at the time of the writing of the book of revelations, the events predicted and the number 666 referred to the nefarious roman emperor nero, because the sum value of his name was 666.

however, this interpretation is complicated by hermetic philosophy, which recognized that 666 is a very special number. it was referred to as the golden square of the sun. square sets of numbers were considered mystical tools containing esoteric wisdom and used for divining the future. a magical square was a matrix of numbers consisting of n rows and n columns, where no number was used twice, the sum of any row or column was identical, and the total sum of these sums was the value of the square... for example, the golden square 666 consisted of six rows and six columns, each adding up to 111... add up the six 111's and you get 666 - this is the magic golden square:

6 32 3 34 35 1

7 11 27 28 8 30

19 14 16 15 23 24

18 20 22 21 17 13

25 29 10 9 26 12

36 5 33 4 2 31

^^as far as this being the number of man... just consider that we are carbon-based organisms..

carbon - 6 protons, 6 neutrons, 6 electrons.

quote:Originally posted by Eil:

many ancient texts including sacred ones were written in code... this is because the letters of many ancient alphabets had corresponding numbers... 'a' is 1, 'b' is 2, etc..

also, numerology was commonly practiced back then. it believed that certain numbers have distinct properties. odd numbers are male/aggressive in character, even numbers are female/passive.

combine these two beliefs, and you have a system that believes a person's name has a corresponding number set, and that these numbers reveal the person's nature.

many scholars believe that at the time of the writing of the book of revelations, the events predicted and the number 666 referred to the nefarious roman emperor nero, because the sum value of his name was 666.

however, this interpretation is complicated by hermetic philosophy, which recognized that 666 is a very special number. it was referred to as the golden square of the sun. square sets of numbers were considered mystical tools containing esoteric wisdom and used for divining the future. a magical square was a matrix of numbers consisting of n rows and n columns, where no number was used twice, the sum of any row or column was identical, and the total sum of these sums was the value of the square... for example, the golden square 666 consisted of six rows and six columns, each adding up to 111... add up the six 111's and you get 666 - this is the magic golden square:

6 32 3 34 35 1

7 11 27 28 8 30

19 14 16 15 23 24

18 20 22 21 17 13

25 29 10 9 26 12

36 5 33 4 2 31





i would like to add that (to my knowledge) hebrew, greek and aramaic are the only languages that did not have separate symbols for numbers and letters. In Revelation, it is writen matter of factly.. as if whoever reads it would understand "the number of the name" as a way of calculating. In hebrew numerology (gematria) they believed that things that have the same number are linked.

Computers use languages that are similar in that the info is express numerically, so in effect, letters mean numbers.

Eil, you and i had a 'discussion' about my beliefs where i said that i dont agree with some of Lutheran teaching. Lutheran doctrine says (i'll give you the very short version) that 3 is the number of God (thus perfect), 7 is the number of perfection, 4 is the number of man (or society, kingdoms, etc.), 6 is incomplete (thus imperfect) so 6 6 6 is three sixes, so perfectly imperfect. Part of the doctrine is is based from the books of Daniel and Ezekiel. In short, where i disagree is that Lutheran doctrine takes the Bible as literal...except when it comes to Revelations, then they switch gears and think it is symbolic. I believe that the Bible is literal, with exception to obvious symbolism that is obvious from the context. Also, if Lutheran teaching were correct, then they would not be looking at 3 seperate sixes, but 600 threescore and six.. just as the Bible in Rev 13:18 says.

Now back to the computer reference. I know i am not (atleast completely) right in my theory (i dont think that Rev 13:18 would be reffering to english), but the ASCII value for some interesting character strings, come up as six hundred sixty six. Some of these words are:

7thseal666, holybible, indonesia, internet1, markbeast, markofgod, usamerica, thedevile, adlfhitlr, areligion, auschwit2, olddragon, windows96, beelzobub, billgatev, blllgates, bookofgod, popejohn7, popepaul4, catholics, cellphone (i knew cellphones were evil LOL), saddamhus, santaclas, satanigod

dont get me wrong, i know that 1000s of strings will come up as 666, i am just sharing a few that i thought were interesting and some being linked like the belief in Gematria. And on the same note, also interesting is that the string "holychrist" comes in at an ASCII value of 777.

Reminds me of the movie Pi and the Qabala teachings... how the numerical values of the words Mother and Father added up to the numerical value of the word Child, and the proportion of the Garden of Eden to the Tree of Knowledge form numbers in the Fibonacci sequence, and thus form the Golden Spiral.

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

Reminds me of the movie Pi and the Qabala teachings... how the numerical values of the words Mother and Father added up to the numerical value of the word Child, and the proportion of the Garden of Eden to the Tree of Knowledge form numbers in the Fibonacci sequence, and thus form the Golden Spiral.



Qabala is the "teaching", gematria is the numerology of that "teaching" or belief.

UK - Libraries;

The Dewey Decimal System classification number for "Numerology" is 133.335. If you reverse this and add, you get

133.335 + 533.331 = 666.666

beastly!

As long as we are digressing, I would like to see a site that has to do with modern numerology.

AND a site that has a translation of the bible with the full meaning of each letter as well as in numeric sequence.

and 20 bucks

Thank you for answering my question, i understood most of it

quote:Originally posted by reject:

I think this belongs here because some people believe that Satan is a god, but how did the number 666 become associated with Satan?

ooops, sorry, slight oversight. 666 is not the number of the beast per se, but it is the number of the name of the anti-christ. for one thing, it is a key to understanding the prophecy. In prophecy, during the final days (years...3 1/2 + 3 1/2) people will need the mark in order to buy and to sell (on there right hand or forehead. that mark will be the mark of the antichrist's name or the number of his name, which we are to reject. My thoughts on the matter is that satan and the antichrist can also read and understand prophecy, so they will probably try to either hide it or make it in such a way that people dont realize what it really is. Some thoughts of other people are that it may be a computer chip implant, or bar code, possibly for I.D. and financial info. My line of thinking of ASCII/ computer is more of the calculation of the number, not the mark itself. And i think that the anti-christ will most likely be jewish, since the jews dont think the Messiah has come yet. He will most likely BE from the line of David or FAKE a pedigree to SHOW that he is from that line.

on a general note: it is impossible to understand the revelation of john without a in depth knowledge of the LXX.

don't forget it was written in 'code' for the first congregations and so to understand it one must use the same 'key' they did.

for example you can find all sorts of explanations for the 'great whore of babylon' but the early christians knew what meant....and it sure as fuck wasn't the catholic church /EU/USA

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jackketch:

on a general note: it is impossible to understand the revelation of john without a in depth knowledge of the LXX.

by LXX, i am assuming that you are refering to the 70 weeks of Daniel

don't forget it was written in 'code' for the first congregations

doubtful that it was written for the early church, as it is prophecy. more likely that it was written for people living during the generation that the prophecy is to be fulfilled. If it were not written obscurely, then it would be either self-fulfilled or there would be an attempt to avoid it.

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

And i think that the anti-christ will most likely be jewish, since the jews dont think the Messiah has come yet. He will most likely BE from the line of David or FAKE a pedigree to SHOW that he is from that line.

I doubt that the anti-Christ will be affiliated with any single faith, my assumption is that if existing and if coming he will attempt to corrupt all the religions. Many religions have figures or are awaiting a savior-like figure.

a few examples of savior like figures and their enemies

Christianity - Jesus - Anti-Christ

Judaism - Messiah - Enemies of Israel and Righteous Gentiles

Islam - Mahdi - Dajjal

Buddhism - Maitreya - Spirit of Evil

Asatru - Balder - Loki

[This message has been edited by Keltoiberserker (edited 11-01-2004).]

I'm looking for a link to a text that will answer this in extereme deph but the people above me sound like they know what there talking about...

I'm sure the number goes back even dating farther then christ...

Let me find that link beacuse i really could be talking out of my ass

"doctrine says (i'll give you the very short version) that 3 is the number of God (thus perfect), 7 is the number of perfection, 4 is the number of man (or society, kingdoms, etc.), 6 is incomplete (thus imperfect) so 6 6 6 is three sixes, so perfectly imperfect. Part of the doctrine "

Someone stated that above... Just thought it was interesting beacuse

3 meant god and 6 meant imperfect

so 3 six's would be an imperfect god equaling the devil

The creepiest one yet... If you add a=6 b=12 c=18 d=24... to the word "computer" what do you get? 666 aka the mark of the beast. since the sign of the beast =666 and the mark of the beast will be on hand/or forhead i'm assuming its a microchip or an rfid tag. I will die before anything like that happens. *grabs guns and heads up into the hills.*

www.google.com (http://www.google.com)

666 is the mark of the beast isnt it? i thought 666 is the date of when a evil man was born.

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jackketch:

on a general note: it is impossible to understand the revelation of john without a in depth knowledge of the LXX.

by LXX, i am assuming that you are refering to the 70 weeks of Daniel

don't forget it was written in 'code' for the first congregations

doubtful that it was written for the early church, as it is prophecy. more likely that it was written for people living during the generation that the prophecy is to be fulfilled. If it were not written obscurely, then it would be either self-fulfilled or there would be an attempt to avoid it.

oh dear...LXX refers to the greek old testament (my bad i forget sometimes not everyone understands theologian 'jargon', sorry).

and as to your other point ...it makes very clear for whom it was written. i prefer to stick with what the book says and not go off on flights of prophetic fantasy. especially as it also warns us against doing that.

QUOTE Originally posted by jackketch:

oh dear...LXX refers to the greek old testament (my bad i forget sometimes not everyone understands theologian 'jargon', sorry).

actually, i know what LXX means. It is the Septuagint, which is the earliest Greek translation of the OT, dating to around 250-200 b.c. It's just that i didnt recognize it as that since ive usually seen it refered to as the Septuagint...and sometimes as "the seventy".

But since we had been talking about prophecy, and the book of Daniel sheds some (much) light on Revelation, i naturally mistook LXX for Daniel's 70 weeks.

and as to your other point ...it makes very clear for whom it was written.

it says (NIV) Rev 13:18 This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

Clear for whom it was written? How so?

this is the strongs definition of "calculate"

Strong's Ref. # 5585

Romanized psephizo

Pronounced psay-fid'-zo

from GSN5586; to use pebbles in enumeration, i.e. (generally) to compute:

KJV--count.



i prefer to stick with what the book says and not go off on flights of prophetic fantasy. especially as it also warns us against doing that. /QUOTE

I was not trying to go off on flights of fantasy. Which is why i tried to point out that it was my theory and that the theory, if on the right track, is incomplete.

I also prefer to try to stick with Literal. But, when reading prophecy, it is only absolutely understood, after it has been fulfilled.

Any way, thanks for the feedback. It is appreciated. God Bless. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Eil:

^^as far as this being the number of man... just consider that we are carbon-based organisms..

carbon - 6 protons, 6 neutrons, 6 electrons.

.....woah.....

brown_town... haha! sick dude, sick.

Satan finds us terribly funny. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

quote:Originally posted by Tyrant:

Reminds me of the movie Pi and the Qabala teachings... how the numerical values of the words Mother and Father added up to the numerical value of the word Child, and the proportion of the Garden of Eden to the Tree of Knowledge form numbers in the Fibonacci sequence, and thus form the Golden Spiral.

Someone read the DaVinci Code...

quote:Originally posted by penjo0in:

As long as we are digressing, I would like to see a site that has to do with modern numerology.

AND a site that has a translation of the bible with the full meaning of each letter as well as in numeric sequence.

and 20 bucks

blueletterbible.com is an amazing site, has greek/hebrew and MANY translations of the bible, KJV, NKJV, modern ones, etc.

Unless they have bought the .com I believe blueletter is a .org

A couple things to mention. First is that its specifically written six hundred and sixty six, not 6 6 6. Even though many people say its six six six, that is incorrect.

Second is that most people take Rev (Revelation) way too literally. It was written in a time where being publicly christian (well, being anything but the republic supported religion) was suicide, and thus Rev was written highly symbolic and in codes. Codes were uncommon to christians as its where we get the Jesus fish symbol. Because of this it is thought that 666 doesn't refer to the devil but someone who is satan, and most likely Nero, a crazy emporuer. Satan is not a specific person but a term meaning someone who is against, and generally someone who is against God or christianity.

But because they had to be very vague when opposing Nero and the persecution of christians, 2000 years later, we don't fully understand what they are talking about. Leading to some very funny but very wrong predictions about the end of the world and the anti christ and all kinds of shit that has made people very rich, which is funny, since if the world is going to end like they predict, why do they care so much about money? http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

If you want to belive that the number 666 will be needed to buy something, take a look at any barcode: http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:L1sDdVmAvoUJ:http://www.random-abstract.com/archive01/june/images/barcode-1-25.gif

Look at the 2 bars that represent the number 6. If you look closely, you can see the same 2 bar pattern(meaning 6) is on each side and in the middle of the barcode.

This combination is on every barcode. Look at something else to prove it.

if you are being serious...

HAha. Where did you get the idea that that two bar (actually its 4 if you knew anything about barcodes you would know that) is 6?

Educate yourself http://www.virtualsalt.com/barcode.htm



I get the feeling you aren't serious, but there are plenty of people who are.

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

QUOTE Originally posted by jackketch:

oh dear...LXX refers to the greek old testament (my bad i forget sometimes not everyone understands theologian 'jargon', sorry).

actually, i know what LXX means. It is the Septuagint, which is the earliest Greek translation of the OT, dating to around 250-200 b.c. It's just that i didnt recognize it as that since ive usually seen it refered to as the Septuagint...and sometimes as "the seventy".

But since we had been talking about prophecy, and the book of Daniel sheds some (much) light on Revelation, i naturally mistook LXX for Daniel's 70 weeks.

and as to your other point ...it makes very clear for whom it was written.

it says (NIV) Rev 13:18 This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man's number. His number is 666.

Clear for whom it was written? How so?

this is the strongs definition of "calculate"

Strong's Ref. # 5585

Romanized psephizo

Pronounced psay-fid'-zo

from GSN5586; to use pebbles in enumeration, i.e. (generally) to compute:

KJV--count.



i prefer to stick with what the book says and not go off on flights of prophetic fantasy. especially as it also warns us against doing that. /QUOTE

I was not trying to go off on flights of fantasy. Which is why i tried to point out that it was my theory and that the theory, if on the right track, is incomplete.

I also prefer to try to stick with Literal. But, when reading prophecy, it is only absolutely understood, after it has been fulfilled.

Any way, thanks for the feedback. It is appreciated. God Bless. http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/smile.gif)

sorry mate but even mentioning the NIV translation means your damnation (and also your theological confusion) is assured :P

and Strong...i'll bide my tongue

quote:Originally posted by Beta69:

if you are being serious...

HAha. Where did you get the idea that that two bar (actually its 4 if you knew anything about barcodes you would know that) is 6?

Educate yourself http://www.virtualsalt.com/barcode.htm



I get the feeling you aren't serious, but there are plenty of people who are.



Thanks for clearing that up.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

sorry mate but even mentioning the NIV translation means your damnation (and also your theological confusion) is assured :P

and Strong...i'll bide my tongue

no need for being sorry for me, mate, mentioning NIV let alone quoting it means my damnation?? not trusting that i am saved by Grace is damnation.

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

no need for being sorry for me, mate, mentioning NIV let alone quoting it means my damnation?? not trusting that i am saved by Grace is damnation.

Not realizing that salvation is in your own hands and that you a sacred because you are human, not because God loves you, is damnnation. Demoting this life and focusing on a make believe afterlife, is damnation. Worshiping a God on a cross is damnation.

Freedom is in loving yourself, not because some God loves you, but because you are what you are...human...sacred.

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

no need for being sorry for me, mate, mentioning NIV let alone quoting it means my damnation?? not trusting that i am saved by Grace is damnation.

yes i should perhaps not have joked about 'damnation'. i forget how touchy people get on these non-biblical yet so traditional beliefs.

but unless your using it for some useful purpose(like as a doorstop or toilet paper) do avoid even having the NIV in the house.

t will cripple any bible study you undertake.

there are plenty of other good translations in modern english if you're wanting something thats easy to read.

btw just to avoid a mistake i made yesterday-this is NOT meant in a condescending or patronising way but as serious advice.

quote:Originally posted by Sempre Solipsist:

Not realizing that salvation is in your own hands and that you a sacred because you are human, not because God loves you, is damnnation. Demoting this life and focusing on a make believe afterlife, is damnation. Worshiping a God on a cross is damnation.

Freedom is in loving yourself, not because some God loves you, but because you are what you are...human...sacred.

^ Blasphemy... the road to salvation lies in Jesus. Not self-worship.



By the way, what's so bad about the NIV? How bad/innaccurate are the translations in it?

[This message has been edited by Pandemic7 (edited 11-03-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Pandemic7 (edited 11-03-2004).]

quote:By the way, what's so bad about the NIV? How bad/innaccurate are the translations in it?

its about as accurate as the watchtower's own 'New World' translation.

[This message has been edited by jackketch (edited 11-03-2004).]

QUOTE Originally posted by Sempre Solipsist:

Demoting this life and focusing on a make believe afterlife, is damnation.[b]

Why do you assume that, because one trusts in God, one is "demoting life"? Life is a gift.

[b]Freedom is in loving yourself, not because some God loves you, but because you are what you are...human...sacred. /QUOTE

If there is no Divine Being, then nothing is truely sacred. If there is no Divne Being, then you are worm food, before you even start to live.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

yes i should perhaps not have joked about 'damnation'. i forget how touchy people get on these non-biblical yet so traditional beliefs.

but unless your using it for some useful purpose(like as a doorstop or toilet paper) do avoid even having the NIV in the house.

t will cripple any bible study you undertake.

there are plenty of other good translations in modern english if you're wanting something thats easy to read.

btw just to avoid a mistake i made yesterday-this is NOT meant in a condescending or patronising way but as serious advice.



ok, if you mean it "as serious advice", then please, share which translation(s) are suitable, in your opinion.

I used the NIV, in that instance, because that cd-rom only has KJV, NIV, and Literal with Strong's. Also, i used that cd-rom because that was the one that happened to be in the cd drive.

I chose not to use KJV, because it is easy to stumble over words and meanings that we (modern english speaking people) are not familiar with, from "everyday" usage.

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

QUOTE Originally posted by Sempre Solipsist:

Demoting this life and focusing on a make believe afterlife, is damnation.[b]

Why do you assume that, because one trusts in God, one is "demoting life"? Life is a gift.

[b]Freedom is in loving yourself, not because some God loves you, but because you are what you are...human...sacred. /QUOTE

If there is no Divine Being, then nothing is truely sacred. If there is no Divne Being, then you are worm food, before you even start to live.



...unless of course, there are many divine beings, and many degress of sacred.

quote:Originally posted by Pandemic7:

^ Blasphemy... the road to salvation lies in Jesus. Not self-worship.



By the way, what's so bad about the NIV? How bad/innaccurate are the translations in it?

[This message has been edited by Pandemic7 (edited 11-03-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Pandemic7 (edited 11-03-2004).]

The kingdom of Heaven is within you. - Jesus

It's not self-worship, but just a way of paraphrasing that we are part of G~d.

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

ok, if you mean it "as serious advice", then please, share which translation(s) are suitable, in your opinion.

I used the NIV, in that instance, because that cd-rom only has KJV, NIV, and Literal with Strong's. Also, i used that cd-rom because that was the one that happened to be in the cd drive.

I chose not to use KJV, because it is easy to stumble over words and meanings that we (modern english speaking people) are not familiar with, from "everyday" usage.

yes you're right of course: as beautiful as the english of the KJV is ,its not really useful for bible study .

and you're other point is also valid...i have no idea if the more accurate translations are available online/as cd.

but if you want very accurate but still readable the 'The New English' is pretty much unbeatable BUT NOT THE REVISED version.

the team of top flight scholars (if i remember rightly C.Dodd was one of them ) who translated it went out of their way to avoid sectarian bias.