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View Full Version : Genesis Chapter 3 (The First Sin and it's Punishment)


LostCause
2004-11-02, 23:46
Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the gield which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?



What do you think "subtle" means?



2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden;

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.



Here Eve says that god's told her she and Adam will die if they eat from the tree.



4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die;

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened; and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.



Is the serpent lying about god? Does he even know any better? Who is the serpent? What would be his motive for fucking up gods shit?



6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for good, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat; and gave also unto her husband with her, and he did eat.

7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the gay; and Ad'am and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.



God walks?



9 And the LORD God called unto Ad'am and said unto him, what art thou?

10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.

11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?

12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

13 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life;



This suggests that the serpent was something else before.



15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.



I assume he's talking about how pregnancy will be painfull now.



16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow, and thy conception; in sorrow thoy shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he rule over thee.



So now Adam has been appointed as Eves "ruler". Sexism is born.



17 And unto Ad'am he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thoy eat of it all the day of thy life.

18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thoy shalt eat the herb of the field;

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken; for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

20 And Ad'am called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.



Does this mean they had already had children or does this mean Eve is the mother of all living creatures? Because that would be a definite pagan reference.



21 Unto Ad'am also, and to his wife did, the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever;



I'm starting to see the roots of where "Satanism" came from. I mean, supposing the serpent is "Satan" it really sounds like he was only trying to help Adam and Eve, and here god say to Adam that Adam is now like him that Adam has disobeyed and eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, but he then says that Adam will never be (trying to find the words, o my this is a long sentence.) complete(?) or happy(?) until he eats from the Tree of Life, and proceeds to make sure that Adam and Eve will never get to the Tree of Life. It doesn't seem like god really wants Adam and Eve to be happy.



23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of E'den to till the ground from whence he was taken.

24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of E'den, cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.



Adam was sent from the garden of Eden but it doesn't say anything about Eve.

What's going on in the east of Eden?

I'm not exactly sure what cherubims are, but I know Cupid was a cherub, so imagine they're something like him.

Cheers,

Lost

jackketch
2004-11-02, 23:54
i've got a lot to say on this but its late and i've got college tomorrow. i will bore at length when i get chance.

Aphelion Corona
2004-11-03, 22:47
*clears throat*

From The Stone Edition Chumash.

The Cherubim were destructive angels who have the responsibility of preventing man from discovering and re-entering the garden.

Rabbi Yaakov Kamenetsky noted the same term is used for the carving of children on the Ark, here they represent the life giving powers of Torah.

Moral: Children can be destructive or holy, depending on how they are raised.

xtreem5150ahm
2004-11-04, 05:52
quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the gield which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

What do you think "subtle" means?

Look up 'cunning' in a (decent) dictionary. 'Subtle' works fine.

Anyway,:

Strong's Ref. # 6175

Romanized `aruwm

Pronounced aw-room'

passive participle of HSN6191; cunning (usually in a bad sense):

KJV--crafty, prudent, subtil.

Even though i like the way KJV sounds, this is why i dont care for it when studying the Bible, you have to translate the translation.

LostCause
2004-11-04, 06:12
How could the murder be the first sin if Adam and Eve had already sinned by going against god?

Also, sin has not been mentioned yet, so was it really a sin to kill Abel or not?

Cheers,

Lost

xtreem5150ahm
2004-11-04, 06:14
[QUOTE]Originally posted by LostCause:



15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.



I assume he's talking about how pregnancy will be painfull now.

To me, it is implying that the devil (the serpent) can have offspring. and that Eve's offspring and the serpent's offspring will be at odds

22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil; and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever;



I'm starting to see the roots of where "Satanism" came from. I mean, supposing the serpent is "Satan" it really sounds like he was only trying to help Adam and Eve, and here god say to Adam that Adam is now like him that Adam has disobeyed and eat of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, but he then says that Adam will never be (trying to find the words, o my this is a long sentence.) complete(?) or happy(?) until he eats from the Tree of Life, and proceeds to make sure that Adam and Eve will never get to the Tree of Life. It doesn't seem like god really wants Adam and Eve to be happy.

i realize that our 'bible via totse' hasnt gotten very far yet, but Revelation's mentions that the "Tree of Life" will be 'restored' (? not sure if this is the right word) in the New Heaven and New Earth. So it seems to me that since God said that the death penalty would be imposed if they disobeyed, He had to remove the ability of eating from that Tree (not only from Adam and Eve, but by their decendants), this way His curse in verse 15, also stands.

xtreem5150ahm
2004-11-04, 06:19
quote:Originally posted by LostCause:

How could the murder be the first sin if Adam and Eve had already sinned by going against god?

Also, sin has not been mentioned yet, so was it really a sin to kill Abel or not?

Cheers,

Lost

Im not sure that i understand where you got the idea that murder was the 1st sin. Adam and Eve disobeying God would be the 1st (human) sin... the serpent's deception might be the 1st sin, but the Bible hasnt said anything about what satan was allowed to do or not do...he did get cursed too.

LordJugz
2004-11-04, 09:17
Okay, God created every aspect of what is this universe, including humans. So he knows EVERYTHING! If I'm reading this right, he set us up for failure. Why would he even bother? Was he bored? Maybe made a mistake? Who knows! But it does seem kind of strange...

Aphelion Corona
2004-11-04, 19:33
quote:Originally posted by LordJugz:

Okay, God created every aspect of what is this universe, including humans. So he knows EVERYTHING! If I'm reading this right, he set us up for failure. Why would he even bother? Was he bored? Maybe made a mistake? Who knows! But it does seem kind of strange...

He knew we had the potential to fail but also the potential to suceed.

How do you know that there is a linear path to the future? It could be a web where our actions change the future of the universe.

...Or the Bible could be trying to explain how man's first instinct is for selfishness and evil.