I've really been thinking about religion and God lately and i want to know what anyone thinks about this. I think read it in Stephen King's "Christine."

I really think there is a god because of one big thing.

When the first steam engines came, it wasn't just one person who had this idea, it was a bunch of people all over the planet. Same thing with stone tools for cavemen. They weren't just found in one part of the world, they were found all over the place. And cars, the wheel, computers, the A bomb, whatever. Any world changing invention didn't just come from one person, they came from many different people all over the place. It was just "Steam Engine Time" when people figured it out, "A-Bomb time" whatever. Where did these ideas come from? That isn't the clincher, though, the clincher is that the ideas came to the RIGHT people. You know what I mean? The idea didn't come to guys who would be dying in 2 days and their invention would never be found. They came to people who knew other people who knew other people and it spread all over the Earth and so on until every one everywhere is using it . I'm talking before radio, before TV, Hell, before writing in some cases. How did these ideas come, and how did they come to the right people? To me that shows that something's gotta be helping us along somehow. Maybe God, maybe aliens, maybe I'm an idiot, but this intrigues me.

Funny coming from a guy named after a bad religion song.

I'm just assuming that's your namesake anyway.

Yeah, it is a Bad Religion song, but just because Greg is an atheist and sings about it, and my username's song is about trusting yourself and not relying on god doesn't mean i can't believe.

Fair enough.

Just making presumptions.

Sorry I didn't mean to sound like an asshole. But doesn't this make you think? I mean come on! that's too many coincidences all over the world happening way too many times. You know?

Actually, I've never thought about it. But it's an interesting idea.

The a-bomb thing and television and radio don't count. But mass religious creation with similar motifs would make sense. This could also speak volumes about innate human nature.

It's a double edged blade.

I'm glad you see what I mean. I didn't word it as well as I wanted to, so i suggest you pick up "Christine."

you mean the evolution of consciousness?

Sure, I guess. If you mean how people everywhere are getting smarter, and not just by learning through books and shit, but just being born smarter because, well I don't know, just because everyone is getting smarter.

well, you're certainly proof of that...

There's plenty getting dumber as well. The coherence of intelligence's growth may be imagined due to the fact that what was once extremely complex sciences is introduced at younger ages. There is something to be said about the similarities between completely unrelated faiths however. The creation story, for example, seems almost identical between say...christianity and hindu. Slightly different words.

I'd go into more detail, but I'm getting tired. So very tired.

Haha, if that wasn't directed towards me i would call you a comedic genius, but since it was towards me, i'll call you an asshole.

J/K BFF

But seriously Eil, please give me your sincere thoughts on what i wrote originally>

[This message has been edited by Shattered_Faith (edited 11-05-2004).]

my sincere thoughts? well, no offense, but i think that if you're assuming a higher consciousness is guiding or designing the apparent increasing sophistication of reality, then that's a simplistic and lazy interpretation of the progression of technology.

just because certain inventions pop up about the same time in separate places, it does not mean they were supernaturally inspired. you must look at the societal substrate that may have brought about the necessity or inevitability of their design.

that said, i think the evolution of consciousness itself is what we consider god.

why? because the important thing about god is not that he's omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, or anything like that... the important thing is that the divine force of existence inspires your heart to skip a beat, causes your body to surge with undeniable joy, and lights the way for your mind to tread a new, unexplored path.

if you believe that this inspiration is infused into all of creation, then god is omnipresent.

if you believe that this joy is automatically sought by all of creation, then god is omnipotent.

if you believe that this light is perceivable by all conscious entities, then god is omniscient.

how does this answer your initial topic question?

god is god because he's still god despite having changed from being god to being god. and what's more, god changed by godding... which means god godded into god.

god gods god all the time. so in other words, god god god, god god. god god god.

quote:Originally posted by Shattered_Faith:

I've really been thinking about religion and God lately and i want to know what anyone thinks about this. I think read it in Stephen King's "Christine."

I really think there is a god because of one big thing.

When the first steam engines came, it wasn't just one person who had this idea, it was a bunch of people all over the planet. Same thing with stone tools for cavemen. They weren't just found in one part of the world, they were found all over the place. And cars, the wheel, computers, the A bomb, whatever. Any world changing invention didn't just come from one person, they came from many different people all over the place. It was just "Steam Engine Time" when people figured it out, "A-Bomb time" whatever. Where did these ideas come from? That isn't the clincher, though, the clincher is that the ideas came to the RIGHT people. You know what I mean? The idea didn't come to guys who would be dying in 2 days and their invention would never be found. They came to people who knew other people who knew other people and it spread all over the Earth and so on until every one everywhere is using it . I'm talking before radio, before TV, Hell, before writing in some cases. How did these ideas come, and how did they come to the right people? To me that shows that something's gotta be helping us along somehow. Maybe God, maybe aliens, maybe I'm an idiot, but this intrigues me.

All pure, random, chance.

Benjamin Franklin didn't invent electricity, it was there to be discovered. If it wasn't Ben, it would be someone else. There are lots of smart people, and there are even more dumb people, to follow the smart people.

That's no reason to believe in bog.

All I'm saying is that the world is too fucked up to have happened by chance. The human body is too sophisticated: thought, ideas, inspiration, emotions, strokes of genius. Blah blah blah and so on and so forth. I think that as soon as we figure out what the universe is all about, it'll warp into something even more fucked up. as soon as someone figures out the second theory to go along with Einstein's relativity shit, (you know the wood and marble tile idea right?) the world and universe will become even more complicated than this. and I'm not being lazy, i am just looking for the same thing you are looking for, but in a different place.

Eil and Wolfie, explain how it came to the right people then.

it didn't come to them because they were the right people, they were the right people because it came to them.

Well they had to not have died and been influential enough to spread their invention, or know someone who was, right?

by the way, that was a goddamn cryptic answer, albeit a good one.

[This message has been edited by Shattered_Faith (edited 11-05-2004).]

no, sorry, wrong. so very wrong.

and weird too. very weird. you're strange.

freak.

You're pretty smart Eil, you know that? honestly, no sarcasm, no nothing, you are just a smart guy (or gal). You have some cool ideas and you give a good insight into life, though it seems a bit stoic and bland at times.

quote:Originally posted by Shattered_Faith:

Well they had to not have died and been influential enough to spread their invention, or know someone who was, right?

by the way, that was a goddamn cryptic answer, albeit a good one.

[This message has been edited by Shattered_Faith (edited 11-05-2004).]

cryptic, huh?

do you have a cryptex?

decipher this bitch

_nIm

i thought that of a philosophy prof i had in college... stoic and bland... turns out he was just right.

quote:Originally posted by Shattered_Faith:

Eil and Wolfie, explain how it came to the right people then.

Nothing came to them, they sought it out.



The theory of relativity didn't just come to Einstein.



And just look at Stephen Hawking, he spent 30 years working on his theory about blackholes.

Don't ask me to explain it, I don't "get" astrophysics.

maybe someone once had the idea to end world famine and died within 24 hours without telling anybody... we don't know because he didn't tell. in that case, he was the 'wrong' guy.

IMHO the idea of the nuclear bomb was NOT

'put' into the 'right' hands...

actually the idea of nuclear energy gradually developed over years of research. it didn't just pop up.

Cougar

quote:Originally posted by Cougar:

maybe someone once had the idea to end world famine and died within 24 hours without telling anybody... we don't know because he didn't tell. in that case, he was the 'wrong' guy.

IMHO the idea of the nuclear bomb was NOT

'put' into the 'right' hands...

actually the idea of nuclear energy gradually developed over years of research. it didn't just pop up.

Cougar

Sounds like the Hitchhiker's Guide to me...

So...then, if we're talking about the "right" people as the ones who managed to pursue an invention until it was not obscure, and the "wrong" people as those who didn't, is it so suprising that the failures didn't leave anything behind?

I mean, if it had, wouldn't they be the right people all over again?

Your terms don't really define much of anything in supposrt of your argument

quote:Originally posted by indiate-r:

Sounds like the Hitchhiker's Guide to me...

yeah, but this isn't her story... http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif (http://www.totse.com/bbs/biggrin.gif)

Cougar

How would we know if the ideas came to a person dieing in 2 days? We wouldn't, its called chance and pronability, not God. Had all of the ideas ever conceived been combined, as many ideas were combined for the steam engine, we would have an extremely larger number of inventions than what we have today.