Ok...I searched this topic and couldn't find anything like it so if this is a repeated topic please excuse me. Ok...the bible states that God created angels to worship...and it also says that the big difference between angels and humans is that God gave man free will...and not angels. Well...Lucifer was an angel...and Lucifer decided to rebel against God and make an attempt at the throne. How can this be possible unless God created Lucifer strictly for this purpose? Unless God gave Lucifer the will to believe himself better...then he couldn't have thought that way. So God had to have created Lucifer to fall...to create the balance between good and evil. So Lucifer is a good thing...because without him we wouldn't know good...because we wouldn't know evil. This is all supposing you believe in God and the Devil...furthermore it says that when he fell Lucifer took some of the angels from the heavens with him...how? Unless God created them to fall as well.

and who the fuck is 'lucifer' when home and dressed?

Bill Gates...possibly Bush...only kidding...sorta...

quote:Originally posted by Valmont:

Bill Gates...possibly Bush...only kidding...sorta...



there speaks one of 'the Sad, Fat and Dateless' (aka linux user)...

and what i meant was you seem to confuse 'lucifer' with some non existant (at least biblically) ub3rnasty ?

Hey man...you don't know me. I use Mac for one thing...and I'm not dateless, but defending myself to you is useless I think. And there is an ubernasty in the Bible...whether you call it an AntiChrist or Satan or the Devil...

[This message has been edited by Valmont (edited 11-07-2004).]

quote: And there is an ubernasty in the Bible...whether you call it an AntiChrist or Satan or the Devil...

there are some ubernasty humans in the bible, yes.

but thats all there is.

RTFB

Oh come on...there's no way you're that Biblicaly ignorant...you're denying the very existance of Satan...what the fuck man...maybe you should take your own advice.

quote:Originally posted by Valmont:

Oh come on...there's no way you're that Biblicaly ignorant...you're denying the very existance of Satan...what the fuck man...maybe you should take your own advice.

no i trained for the priesthood. wether i deny the existence of some supreme supernatural evil being isn't the point.

the point is that there is no evidence for one in the bible...at least not if one actually reads the book and not one's own preconceptions...

and noob thats all the spoon feeding you're getting...go study.

There is evidence for it in the Bible. Lucifer being cast out of heaven is Isaiah is proof. Now whether you think Lucifer is the same as Satan (who is cast out in Revelation) are the same being is another discussion...let's not focus on that part...I just want to know how an angel...who was not given free will...could defy the God it was created to worship.

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

and noob thats all the spoon feeding you're getting...go study.

Go rape yourself you asshat.

quote:Originally posted by Valmont:

Go rape yourself you asshat.

yes i remember hearing something about mac users and a preference sodomy...

quote:Originally posted by jackketch:

yes i remember hearing something about mac users and a preference sodomy...

LOL...nice man...must give credit on that one. But honestly..let's not dwell on a greater Evil or not...you agree that Lucifer was cast from heaven right?

uh, jackketch, nice point, mac users prefer sodomy. I seriously got a chuckle thinking about the survey that asks your OS preference, and whether or not you are down for sodomy. Oh chuckle.

ANYWAY, valmont has a valid point. Lucifer the angel should not have had free will according to the design of angels. So whats the deal?

quote:Originally posted by penjo0in:

ANYWAY, valmont has a valid point. Lucifer the angel should not have had free will according to the design of angels. So whats the deal?

where do you get the idea that angels dont have freewill?

What they do have, is direct contact with God, which is one reason Satan would be condemned for his choice. With proof like that there is no room for mistake, so no forgiveness.

quote:Originally posted by xtreem5150ahm:

What they do have, is direct contact with God, which is one reason Satan would be condemned for his choice. With proof like that there is no room for mistake, so no forgiveness.

Sorry, i take that back. Adam and Eve would have had direct knowledge too. And human kind can have forgiveness.

/me thinks to himself " this what happens when christians are allowed to read the bible"

Ok...number one I'm not Christian...so fuck that idea. Number two it states in the Bible to worship and serve God...and also it says that God granted humans free will it never mentions giving it to angels...cmon people...let's think here...don't flame just think...better discussions happen that way.

start by finding out what an 'angel' is....(because you obviously don't know).

first define terms before you try and investigate.

(oh and the fact you aren't a christian means there may be a glimmer of hope for you yet ...)

Not a problem...I'll read more into the chiors of Angels and see what I come up with from there...and thanks for the glimmer of hope...I do try.